Mithril 2h sword vs Baton of faith

[slow2]

Which one wins?

Mithril is 21/40 with 31% haste. Which is effectively 21/28.

Baton is 30/40.

Maybe i don't get how this all works, but are they the same DPS? Other than cost is there one reason or another you would prefer one?

These are my thoughts:

Both are rated at 40 delay, and therefore get the same delay bonus. But the mithril seems to take the edge considering it has an effective delay of 28 with the same bonus damage. This is a very very slim amount of damage, but it will add up over the course of a fight presumably.

[Lorraine]

Basically it's the price difference between the two weapons, but -

The biggest factor is that you can always benefit from a haste item when you are using a Baton of Faith where as with the Mith2handed not so.

[slow2]

Basically it's the price difference between the two weapons, but -

The biggest factor is that you can always benefit from a haste item when you are using a Baton of Faith where as with the Mith2handed not so.

I thought that haste items were stackable?

[Lorraine]

I thought that haste items were stackable?

They overwrite each other. Highest % wins.

What you can stack is
1x haste item
1x enchanter/shaman haste cast
1x bard haste

But you can never go beyond a specific level cap, even if they add up higher than it.

[slow2]

They overwrite each other. Highest % wins.

What you can stack is
1x haste item
1x enchanter/shaman haste cast
1x bard haste

But you can never go beyond a specific level cap, even if they add up higher than it.

Ahhh, i totally didn't understand it when I read the haste guide. Thanks for the clarification! BoF is starting to look more appealing now.

[falkun]

They overwrite each other. Highest % wins.

What you can stack is
1x haste item
1x enchanter/shaman/bard_v1 haste
1x bard_v2 haste

But you can never go beyond a specific level cap, even if they add up higher than it.

FTFY. Bard_v2 haste does not exist until the Ervaj lines in Velious (Melody @ 50 and Composition @ 60). The rest of the bard haste songs are v1 (including epic) and do not stack with shaman or enchanter hastes.

Also, bard_v2 haste does not permit you to go above the haste cap for your level, "overhaste" does not exist until the '...of the Vah Shir' line of bard v3 haste released with Luclin.

The wiki haste guide has a link to the Haste cap for given levels:
http://wiki.project1999.org/Haste_Guide#Haste_Caps

Through Velious: 34+% item haste + Speed of the Shissar (66%) = 100% haste (haste cap any L60 and lower). If you only have a bard hasting you, you cannot reach haste cap until Velious with the Ervaj line (35+% item haste + Epic bard (55%) + L60 Ervaj (10%) = 100%). You can never reach the haste cap with Shaman-only haste at L60. Since the haste caps are lower for lower level characters, you can twink and buff haste until you have max haste for the level cap.

@OP: If you do not have a different haste item: Mith 2h > BoF.
If you have a different haste item (FBSS, SotDB, CoF, etc.): BoF > Mith 2h.

[Freakish]

The bard haste icons will stack currently with shaman / enchanter haste. This is because bard haste gives attack and other stats as well and generally only lasts 18 seconds. You may see two haste boxes in your buff bar but only the best haste will affect your swing delay.

[koros]

OP, you're entirely correct. Mith will slightly outdamage the Baton with no additional worn haste item. Once you have one on, the Baton is significantly better.

[Sazzabi]

OP, you're entirely correct. Mith will slightly outdamage the Baton with no additional worn haste item. Once you have one on, the Baton is significantly better.

There is some confusion on how haste works. Even without a haste item the Baton is much much better.

For the Mith 2hander 100% haste would give half delay (20), not 0 delay,
50% haste would give a delay of 30.

31% haste gives a delay of 33.8

A 30/40 weapon will outdamage a 21/33.8 weapon significantly at all levels after lvl 19.

[kunark_lizzie]

haven't looked at haste in a looong time but, i remember item haste affecting damage per hit, not swing delay (swing delay was from spell haste). am i way off with this?

[Bantam 1]

haven't looked at haste in a looong time but, i remember item haste affecting damage per hit, not swing delay (swing delay was from spell haste). am i way off with this?

Bit off yeah.

[Lorraine]

There is some confusion on how haste works. Even without a haste item the Baton is much much better.

For the Mith 2hander 100% haste would give half delay (20), not 0 delay,
50% haste would give a delay of 30.

31% haste gives a delay of 33.8

A 30/40 weapon will outdamage a 21/33.8 weapon significantly at all levels after lvl 19.


What?
100% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a 20 delay weapon.
50% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~27 (26.667) delay weapon.
31% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~31 (30.534) delay weapon

The fuck did you come up with those numbers?



haven't looked at haste in a looong time but, i remember item haste affecting damage per hit, not swing delay (swing delay was from spell haste). am i way off with this?


You can argue that haste has no direct effect on delay but increases your number of swings (and as a result lowers your delay accordingly).

[Sazzabi]

What?
100% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a 20 delay weapon.
50% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~27 (26.667) delay weapon.
31% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it a ~31 (30.534) delay weapon

The fuck did you come up with those numbers?


On a 40 delay weapon the delay can be anywhere between 40 (0% haste) and 20 (100% haste).

The delay can vary 20 depending on haste. Multiply the %haste by the value it can vary to get the delay decrease.

100% haste = 1.0 x 20 = 20 delay less (20 adjusted delay)
50% haste = 0.50 x 20 = 10 delay less (30 adjusted delay)
31% haste = 0.31 x 20 = 6.2 delay less (33.8 adjusted delay)
0% haste = 0.00 x 20 = 0 delay less (40 adjusted delay)

[Lorraine]

On a 40 delay weapon the delay can be anywhere between 40 (0% haste) and 20 (100% haste).

The delay can vary 20 depending on haste. Multiply the %haste by the value it can vary to get the delay decrease.

100% haste = 1.0 x 20 = 20 delay less (20 adjusted delay)
50% haste = 0.50 x 20 = 10 delay less (30 adjusted delay)
31% haste = 0.31 x 20 = 6.2 delay less (33.8 adjusted delay)
0% haste = 0.00 x 20 = 0 delay less (40 adjusted delay)


Haste is measured in Rate of Attack Increase, NOT Delay Decrease.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=998

Spell Icon Haste
Description

1: Increase Attack Speed by 2% (L1) to 50% (L49)

Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View
Mana: 0 Casting Time: Instant
Recast Time: 0 Fizzle Time: 0
Range: 0 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Interruptable: Yes
Short Buff Box: Yes Target Type: Self
Spell Type: Beneficial Category: NPC
Source: Live 07/15
Messages

Cast on you: You feel your heart begin to race.
Cast on other: Soandso begins to move faster.
Effect Fades: Your speed returns to normal.

Game Description

Grants speed to your arms, increasing your rate of attack.^0


How does that work?
Let's assume your RoA is 10 swings per minute. You equip an item that says "Haste" and now you have 12 swings per minute.
10/12 = 1.2 = 20% hasted.

10 Swings per Minute means you swing once every 6 seconds, so your weapon has a 60 delay. Now you swing 12 times per minute, making your weapon a 50 delay.

If we use "your" formula, your "new" delay should be:
0.2 x 30 = 6 delay less = 54.

Like I said, your numbers don't add up.
Skipping school was a bad idea.

[slow2]

Sooo....

They are both 40 delay. Thats an attack every 4 seconds.

BoF = 15 apm
MM = 15 + (15x31%) = 19.65 apm

i believe the formula for damage was something like: 2x weapon dmg + delay bonus.

So baton is 60 + 3(at level 30), whereas MM would be 42+3.

63 x 15 = 945
45 x 19.65 = 884.25

So baton does roughly 60 damage a minute more than MM. IS this correct?

[Sazzabi]

How does that work?
Let's assume your RoA is 10 swings per minute. You equip an item that says "Haste" and now you have 12 swings per minute.
10/12 = 1.2 = 20% hasted.

10 Swings per Minute means you swing once every 6 seconds, so your weapon has a 60 delay. Now you swing 12 times per minute, making your weapon a 50 delay.

If we use "your" formula, your "new" delay should be:
0.2 x 30 = 6 delay less = 54.


I see, thanks for the nice explanation. I thought haste and delay would scale from 0 to 100% haste together but I can see why they don't.

[Colgate]

delay / (1 + haste)

haste is a percentage, so for example mith 2hander is 31% haste with 40 delay, it would be

40 / (1 + 0.31) = 30.534

21/31 = 0.677
30/40 = 0.75

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

[kaev]

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

I am quite confident that the scumsuckers* selling M2H for more than double the price of BoF feel that falling for their scam is actually the better choice, regardless the fact that the BoF is a far superior weapon.


(*) If NPCs can call me a scumsucker in-game, then I'm quite comfortable calling these people scumsuckers in-forum. Sorry if that ruffles your panties.

[Sazzabi]

delay / (1 + haste)

haste is a percentage, so for example mith 2hander is 31% haste with 40 delay, it would be

40 / (1 + 0.31) = 30.534

21/31 = 0.677
30/40 = 0.75

i don't see any situation in which the baton of faith isn't the superior choice

It is because of the damage bonus being applied more that the Mith is better (about 5% more dps at 60), but it only becomes better after around level 52. Before that the Baton is better.

[Colgate]

by the time you're level 52 you should have acquired at least some sort of haste item which would make baton of faith MUCH better

only rationale i can see for mith 2 hander costing more is for rogue epic