Low and Mid Level Warrior agro

[Mazeri]

Hi all,

I am still very new to p99 and had a quick question. I really like the idea of duel wielding as a Melee so war is at the top of my list when looking at the tank classes. My only concern is not being able to hold agro in groups in the low and mid levels. Is agro really as bad as people say it is when compared to an sk or pally? With a small amount of twinking can this problem be solved?

Thanks in advance!

[kaev]

Yeah, it's an issue for Warrior...

So many twinked Rogues and Monks out there, hell so many twinked everything out there. Very little disciplined play, because so many chars are so overgeared that until you're 40+ often the only "penalty" for all-out attack all the time is maybe getting bitched at by a lazy healer. (Well, people do manage to wipe in Mistmoore at L30+ despite being absurdly overgeared, mostly because they haven't had to actually start playing half-competently until then and it takes time to get used to it.)

Agro is just tough for a Warrior on p99 until you've got a haste item and good weapons. Even then there'll be groups that overwhelm content with gear 10-15 levels higher than anything they could possibly earn, and so the Monks and Rogues (and Shamans) won't bother to play very disciplined and will draw a lot of unnecessary agro (it's hard, very hard, to feign or evade or wait a few seconds to slow, don'tcha know...)

Dual wield, btw, definitely appears to be the correct way to go for agro from my experience. Even without agro procs dual wield appears to produce noticeably more agro with less damage output than using a 2hander.

I'd recommend avoiding dd proc'ing weapons (stun+dd proc like ykesha is ok), as your casters can root mobs to allow you to hold agro via proximity. dd procs give the mob extra chances to break root while adding comparatively little agro to your melee threat. Stun+dd like ykesha is ok because it is a very high agro generator.

Good luck.

[Mazeri]

Thanks for the reply. What level do ykesha weps like ssoy or the club proc? If I waited until I could afford a few twink items like ssoy would I still have problems keeping up with agro?

If I don't plan to raid, would I have a better experience with a knight class or even a bard/ranger if I really want duel wield?

[Lojik]

Most decent proccing weapons dont proc until 35-40 range

[Strifen]

Just worry about good ratio weapons before you can start using Ykesha procs in the high 30's. There are some proc weapons before that but the ratios are so bad you're generally better off not using them. I would honestly say just grab a staff of battle (31,37), its the best value for a low-mid twink.

edit: read you prefer dual wield, staff of battle really is your best bet for a while but If you want to dual wield jade mace, lammys, wurmslayer are good options but more expensive.

[Strifen]

Dual wield, btw, definitely appears to be the correct way to go for agro from my experience. Even without agro procs dual wield appears to produce noticeably more agro with less damage output than using a 2hander.


In the case of dual wield vs 2h I'm pretty sure the speed of the weapon has no barring on the aggro it generates, it all comes down to the amount of damage dealt so a higher DPS 2h would be more aggro then faster, less dps dual wield set ups.

[kaev]

In the case of dual wield vs 2h I'm pretty sure the speed of the weapon has no barring on the aggro it generates, it all comes down to the amount of damage dealt so a higher DPS 2h would be more aggro then faster, less dps dual wield set ups.

Doesn't match my experience in-game. At L43, comparing Jade Mace + Bloodpoint vs. Staff of Battle, I do more damage with Staff of Battle but hold agro better with the Jade Mace + Bloodpoint (Bloodpoint doesn't proc until 50 so its proc is not relevant to the comparison.)

No formal testing, just how it's gone for me in-game. Other similar level Warriors have reported similar experience when I've chatted with them about it.

[Splorf22]

I have done the formal testing. The hate generated by a 1H weapon is damage+damage bonus per swing (hit or miss). 2H is the same except there is a roughly 70% penalty. I don't think that's correct but I bumped the post several times in the bug forum and no dice, so whatever.

Kaev has it right - the problem is not warrior aggro per se as much as the ridiculous number of relatively cheap monk (tstaff = 50k) or rogue (ragebringer mq = 50k) twinks. Meanwhile warriors are doubly screwed: to really hold aggro in a group you need either a Blade of the Black Dragon Eye/Ringed Mace of the Ykesha combo (250k), epics (350+ for scales, and then hope your guild loves you enough to poopsock maestro), or VP weapons (hope TMO likes you). And even if you have the dough to buy this stuff, you'll STILL suck 1-50 because they won't proc! If Kunark wasn't out things would be much more reasonable: you could twink your warrior with dual SSOYs and the rogues would be using dragoon dirks and the monks would be using their fists and it would all work out.

Really as a new player if you want to play a tank I would recommend a Shadowknight or especially a Paladin. Both can use their spells to generate more aggro than even a twinked rogue, and these spells make them much more flexible and fun to level than a Warrior.. Both can be geared fairly cheaply (Blood Ember/Deepwater in all slots except BP and legs should be like 5k). The paladin will also have an easy time with the epic quest as well. The disadvantage will be a reduced raid role if you make it to 60, but before you get your heart set on doing a lot of raiding you should read the numerous posts about variance and how the raid scene works here.

If you are determined to go warrior my advice would be to go Jade Mace+Fist of Zek (SCD if you could afford it, but you said you were a new player). I would much rather have 9/18+18/30 or so ratios than use shit like the 6/25 obsidian shard (procs at 20 or something). This way at least you are doing pretty solid dps even if you aren't actually tanking (and tbh, they probably have a fungi anyway, so . . .).

[runlvlzero]

Jade Broadsword and Vilks will pull agro off level 40 ish slow spells, yak + kunzar kujuch just as good if not better.

A solid 2hander works good too. If rogues/monks dont want to let you tank, just let em tank and ignore it, they can reduce their agro by waiting or evading/fd mid fight.

[Vega]

If you are determined to go warrior my advice would be to go Jade Mace+Fist of Zek (SCD if you could afford it, but you said you were a new player).

Jarsath Trident is an even cheaper alternative to Jade Mace at lower levels when piercing is still the same as other weapon skills (assuming you really are strapped for cash).

[Mazeri]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

It looks like my best options currently would be Staff of Battle, SSoY x2, Green Jade Broadsword (or Kynzar) + SSoY or Jade Mace + Fist of Zek

I do have a bit of money so all of these are options. What would give me the best bang for my buck from 1-50?

As a side note, my wife will be playing a cleric up with me.. so it would be nice to have decent dps when we are duo'ing between groups (if that has any baring on weapon choice).

[kaev]

Staff of Battle is easily the best affordable DPS L20 to L49, and maybe longer.

Nathsar Greatsword is a cheap 2hs with shortish delay and not terrible DPS that makes it a nice budget weapon for your 2hs skill-ups (is good DPS sub-20 due to damage cap limiting other weapons more)

Use Sword of Skyfire or Green Jade Broadsword for budget 1hs skill-up weapon (discard Sword of Skyfire at L45 at latest as you do not want it to proc).

In the p99 uber-twink environment the SSoY is junk until it procs at L37, and then it's meh.

Kunzar Ku'juch is ok ratio, decent agro weapon when it procs at 40, and is cheap (don't pay more than 50pp for it) (Sword of Skyfire and GJBS are both better until 40)

Jade Mace is just a nice weapon in either hand. Good damage for a 1hander, good agro for a non-proc'ing weapon, short delay gets skill-ups quickly.

Ykeshan War Club has better ratio than SSoY (still not great) and procs at 40, but even at L40+ unless you have a v high (buffed) dex you'll get more agro with Jace Mace in a lot of fights because you won't proc often enough to make up for the difference in the ratio.

Fist of Zek is nice off-hand ratio, but it's slow so not great for skill-ups and the -20agi might be an issue (don't let your agi drop below 75 if you are tanking.)


Based on my experience sub-20:
* best ratio dual wield, don't forget to skill all your weapons

Based on my experience sub-40:
* Staff of Battle unless having trouble with agro, in which case
* best ratio dual-wield and mash that stupid broken Taunt key, and
* if fighting low enough cons point out to casters how wonderful root can be for agro control (high blues and even/yellow cons break a lot of roots tho)

Based on my experience in lo 40s:
* with no dex buff I go usually with my best ratio 1handers : Jade Mace(9/18) + Blood Point(10/21), too many fights end without a proc with unbuffed dex
* with dex buff I start with Kunzar Ku'juch + Ykeshan War Club, after proc swap to best ratio, some fights still end without a proc v0v
* if casters are rooting mobs I go with best ratio dual wield, or with Staff of Battle for best damage if the roots are holding well
* if somebody else is tanking I go Staff of Battle

[Vega]

and mash that stupid broken Taunt key

http://mlkshk.com/r/G35H

[kaev]

To be fair, just plain mashing Taunt every time it refreshes is fail. But you don't actually have to be very clever about it. Taunt when you lose agro. Taunt when mob is rooted (because you can't tell who really has agro). Taunt before breaking mez. Simple enough that even an Ogre can master it..

[Vega]

To be fair, just plain mashing Taunt every time it refreshes is fail. But you don't actually have to be very clever about it. Taunt when you lose agro. Taunt when mob is rooted (because you can't tell who really has agro). Taunt before breaking mez. Simple enough that even an Ogre can master it..

Ok, confidence restored.

[Mazeri]

Thanks again for the help guys.

I ended up with Jarsath Trident and Green Jade Broadsword for my normal DW combo (plus I got a Kunzar Ku'juch to play with in the 40s), and the Staff of Battles for DW/DPS after 20.

I am sure I will want to look at weps like the jade mace/blood point in the later levels, and hope to have a bit more cash on hand at that point.

So far so good! Even with other twinks I don't have a problem holding agro. Cant wait for 13!

[Strifen]

Thanks again for the help guys.

I ended up with Jarsath Trident and Green Jade Broadsword for my normal DW combo (plus I got a Kunzar Ku'juch to play with in the 40s), and the Staff of Battles for DW/DPS after 20.

I am sure I will want to look at weps like the jade mace/blood point in the later levels, and hope to have a bit more cash on hand at that point.

So far so good! Even with other twinks I don't have a problem holding agro. Cant wait for 13!

Just remember to time your taunts to put you at the top of the aggro list. For example wait until a high aggro spell lands on your target then taunt it off and that aggro will transfer to you as you'll get bumped to the top of the list.

Shaman slows mob, right at inc, does 1k aggro (just an example), once you successfully taunt that aggro is now counted towards you.

[Strifen]

Thanks again for the help guys.

I ended up with Jarsath Trident and Green Jade Broadsword for my normal DW combo (plus I got a Kunzar Ku'juch to play with in the 40s), and the Staff of Battles for DW/DPS after 20.

I am sure I will want to look at weps like the jade mace/blood point in the later levels, and hope to have a bit more cash on hand at that point.

So far so good! Even with other twinks I don't have a problem holding agro. Cant wait for 13!

Sounds good! Also remember to time your taunts to put you at the top of the aggro list. For example wait until a high aggro spell lands on your target then taunt it off and that aggro will transfer to you as you'll get bumped to the top of the list.

Shaman slows mob, right at inc, does 1k aggro (just an example), once you successfully taunt that aggro is now counted towards you.

[mtb tripper]

nice nice