Guide to AoE Bard Kiting, here on P99.

[Cribanox]

-Check the p99 WIki

[stormiejs]

Good post. My friend will love this.

[JayDee]

It's a shame bards don't function properly here.

[Lazortag]

edit: I'm silly

[Lazortag]

It's a shame bards don't function properly here.

Shut up, noob.

[Cribanox]

Also, I almost always get hit when I cast the DOT - it is possible not to get hit at all (with some excellent timing) but even if you get hit when casting the DOT, it doesn't cause enough damage to make aoe kiting impossible, because Selo's will let you outrun the mobs and avoid getting hit when not casting the DOT, and the regen spell will let your health catch up while you're running away from mobs and the dot is still going.


Just to clarify, you can swing in (when I say swing in, I mean make your circle tighter) slowly, so timing isn't really an issue once you get the hang of it. The timing is only important as to how fast you tap you left turn or right turn keys, to maintain your circle.

[JayDee]

Shut up, noob.

A newb that would kill you in a duel anyday.

/flex

BTW bards are gimped here

[JayDee]

I like this post. Honestly though it's not as complicated as it sounds - as the OP said you eventually just kind of learn how to time things when aoe kiting. Also, I almost always get hit when I cast the DOT - it is possible not to get hit at all (with some excellent timing) but even if you get hit when casting the DOT, it doesn't cause enough damage to make aoe kiting impossible, because Selo's will let you outrun the mobs and avoid getting hit when not casting the DOT, and the regen spell will let your health catch up while you're running away from mobs and the dot is still going.

Also, if you find this too risky, just stick to fear kiting - you can kill most blue con mobs without ever getting hit once with fear kiting.

lol, You are a moron

[Smashu]

so does the old charm swarm kite still work later on or is that one of the problems with charm people always cry about?

[Cribanox]

Im assuming it would, smashu, without much problem.

[Jify]

so does the old charm swarm kite still work later on or is that one of the problems with charm people always cry about?

Doesn't work on here, mobs will remain agro'd on the bard.

[Smashu]

meaning when you just round them up with proximity agro and then charm one only the pets target will agro on him and not the entire swarm?

[Lazortag]

.

[Jete]

Guys seriously?

Sure everyone else poops on threads all over this forum, but, I would at least hope the Bards could be legit. I find it cool the OP is trying out new things and sharing his knowledge. Every time you scare away someone from posting, that's a potential lesson you could have learned gone. Its the exact reason I wont make Bard strat videos anymore, only bug reports.

Grow up, realize that maybe you aren't the best at everything in the world, and if you have helpful information or constructive criticism share it, but don't be a douche in the process.

To the OP, Your strat does work. However when I was doing that ( wayyy back when I leveled.. so it could have changed.. ) I was unable to do massive kites. Mostly due to some buggy hit that would stun me and take me down, however, and I will post this video strat after kunark is released ( so you guys don't steal my first to 60 idea... ) There is a way to do it like in the old days. If any of you played classic you know I am talking about the auto-run lock SoW strat.

Also, another great way to kite on P99 is with the infinity symbol loop, seems to be the most effective way of doing damage by taking the least amount. I am too lazy to go look, but if you do the wayback machine on EQDivas there are a bunch of charts for swarm kiting.. Some methods don't work here, some do. Really worth checking into though!

[Lazortag]

I've made perfectly polite and reasonable posts before informing people that aoe kiting does in fact work (even if you do it very crudely and get hit every time you cast a DOT) and that they were doing something very wrong if they thought it was impossible. I'm sorry but it's so irritating that people would rather ignore advice telling them how to aoe kite and complain about how gimped bards are (which the poster I was responding to did, twice, without actually responding to the Cribanox's very well-written explanation) than apply a little effort to not suck horribly. I imagine these same people can't twist more than one song at once because it's "too much effort" and they probably think bards are "gimped" because we can't use melodies.

It's especially irritating because I was arguing with a warrior who said that no one wants to group with Bards because they were 'useless' (this is of course hilarious coming from a warrior). I used to think it was only a very small number of people who believed that, but when I read posts like Jaydee's I'm not sure!

[Cribanox]

@ Jete

I try to stay away from massive kites, which to me means anything more than 5 blues. Only because the risk is so great. I have killed a swarm of 10 blue gnolls, without getting hit once, so it is possible. I try not to get greedy and stick to smaller swarms, since the xp is already amazing with no downtime.

It is possible to do the kite method without going in circles, but imo its much harder, and going on circles is already hard as it is. You just have to make sure you make swivles around the mobs as you dot them. I havent practiced that, but i know it can be done.

Or, you can go forward, making smooth zig zags to make yourself stay just aheaf enougj to not grt hit, but close enough to dot, if u get what im saying

[Jete]

Roger that Crib, you must've learned exactly what I did while kiting. Let me ask all you bards though ( sorry for changing your topic Crib ) Is charm kiting even worth doing since the latest changes to charm? I sent a long explanation to Haynar on how the rescent "nerfs" to enchanters have destroyed bard charm kite which was already non-classic. Again this isn't one of those negative posts, just a question to the community of Bards.

When I was your level Crib, I would get much more xp by chain charm kiting the specs in oasis rather than 4-5 aoe kiting.. I don't know if you have hit the charm kiting level, but when you do- let me know if it is still superior to AoE kiting.

To conclude this, I totally agree with you Lazor- I hate it when people act like Bards are some sort of second class citizen. But it is not without reason. I have seen so many bad bards that its sad. When I joined IB they were hardly recruiting bards because they said, "What can they offer us besides mana song?" After a few very skilled bards appeared, such as Doug, Mythoxxus, a few from divinity ( sorry I forget your names! ) and Arkanjil, the appearance of bards changed for a little while (at least at the raid scene). A lot of these guys quit and it seems to have resumed that course. If any of you played WoW I would compare this situation to that- until more guides come out to tell you exactly how to play a bard, people won't do it very well. In WoW people would wait for specific builds to come out with number crunches to see the highest amount of DPS, then "skilled players" would simply copy that build and do the same thing to yield the same results. I am not saying that people that copy others are unskilled, I am just saying that we as humans have to have a guide to work things. It is how we learn. In otherwords, guides like this from Crib are the only way for people to learn. As I am on a day shift now, I will start contributing again and I hope you all support me in this effort- be it either by constructive criticism or by posting things I have never seen or thought of. Bard is a meta-gaming class, and has more than one way to master it.

P.S.- I will be posting a huge bug report in the bug forums about charm kiting, and I need really fair opinions and comments on it, both from bards and enchanters alike. I won't discuss it further here, but I need people to at least post and say they agree with what I am saying- so we can catch the GM's attention and get it fixed.

Thanks again for hearing me out, I love this server and most importantly, I love the bard class. I will always fight for it, and do my best to ensure people know that when they see a bard, he is a force to be reckoned with.

Edit- I will now again be working on the "Jete Bard How to guide" and will include much more than just cheesy videos with my 12 year-old voice in the background.

[Cribanox]

@ Jete

Hey, about charm kiting, the recent charm nerf to my knowledge only shortened the duration of the charms. Charm kiting (the way I used to do it) didn't depend on the charm's duration.

According to Jify a few posts back, the key ingredient to charm kiting, bard style, isn't working correctly. Which is to have mobs attack your pet, and not you.

I'll play around with this in later levels once I have charm, but here's how I used to do it.

I would go gather up a bunch of KoS monsters, and not touch them, just get aggro. I would choose one mob and charm it. After it was charmed, I would send it into the mob group, and the entire group would attack my pet.

If you had enough mobs, your pet would lose HP fairly quickly. Once your pet is about dead, you go INVS and lose the charm. You had to invs or break charm before your pet started running. If you break charm after your pet begins to run, you won't recieve any EXP. If you were able to break charm before your pet started running, you would finish it off with DDs and DoTs, and then repeat with the next monster.

This can be very safe and effecient EXP. I really only used this 50+, and I remember doing it in Cobalt Scar (at the port in) with the Wyverns looking over the cliffs.

So, if here on P99, if the mobs for some reason won't attack your pet, and come after you instead, then it won't work. Like I said, I'll mess around with it later on, but maybe we can find the reason why and /bug it.

[Jete]

Crib, please check out my latest post in the bug forums, as I am trying my best to get all this fixed. If you agree with it please say so, I will need some backing to it.

[JayDee]

Fix charm kiting (aggro system) and swarm kiting (extend range of detrimental songs...?) imo.

I wants to plays a bard yo

[Smashu]

yeah id definately play a bard for kunark if these kiting methods were fixed. kunark zones were built for this

[Teeroyoyort]

leave it the same. I'm enjoying my charming.

[Kerygma]

When you say you switch your instrument, do you physically have to click and swap them in your inventory or is there a command that you can use to swap them with a hot button?

[Lazortag]

I swap them manually. It's not hard once you do it often. If there's a command to automatically switch them, I'd like to know also.

(the trick is probably to put your primary, secondary, and instrument bag slots on your hotbar so that you can switch instruments without having to open up your inventory)

[Fryhole]

I'm confused about instrument swapping for the dots - it seems at least for the regen song, if you swap out your lute, the next tick of the regen song won't have the instrument bonus. Does it not work this way for the dots? Apart from getting that initial higher damage, it doesn't seem like swapping out instruments is going to help that much, but again I may just not be fully understanding. (only lvl 8 bard atm)

[MorganTPSO]

I'm confused about instrument swapping for the dots - it seems at least for the regen song, if you swap out your lute, the next tick of the regen song won't have the instrument bonus. Does it not work this way for the dots? Apart from getting that initial higher damage, it doesn't seem like swapping out instruments is going to help that much, but again I may just not be fully understanding. (only lvl 8 bard atm)

The way it worked on live, and the way its supposed to work here is, if you have the correct instrument equipped when the cast message hits, the instrument bonus lasts for the entire duration of the song. This should work all the time with the exception of if you play the song again, with the wrong instrument, before the first casts duration is up you lose the bonus. Instrument swapping works here on P99, but not always, still have it not work sometimes if I swap out instruments at the last second. However, for the most part, it works as its supposed to.

Swapping instruments for dots while AE kiting is key. Brass for DDD, Strings for CoD. Nice to get a regen tick in with lute as well, but getting double dmg from DDD is needed, especially if youre going to take hits when you swing in to cast it.

-Morgn

[guineapig]

This is a really good write up!


When I joined IB they were hardly recruiting bards because they said, "What can they offer us besides mana song?"

They seriously thought this?

How about the best resists in the game with a drum equipped?
Do a raid with a bard in each group twisting 2 resist songs and you basically have yourself easy mode.

/facepalm

Anyway, for raiding all this swarm kiting stuff isn't nearly as useful as the buffs that bards can provide. I can't imagine anyone not understanding the value of a bard in 2010... maybe back in 1999.

[Fryhole]

The way it worked on live, and the way its supposed to work here is, if you have the correct instrument equipped when the cast message hits, the instrument bonus lasts for the entire duration of the song. This should work all the time with the exception of if you play the song again, with the wrong instrument, before the first casts duration is up you lose the bonus. Instrument swapping works here on P99, but not always, still have it not work sometimes if I swap out instruments at the last second. However, for the most part, it works as its supposed to.

Swapping instruments for dots while AE kiting is key. Brass for DDD, Strings for CoD. Nice to get a regen tick in with lute as well, but getting double dmg from DDD is needed, especially if youre going to take hits when you swing in to cast it.

-Morgn

Gotcha - thanks for clarifying.

[Lazortag]

So, I tried this method today despite being perfectly content with my Bard already, and it's great - it's not that hard to figure out and once it comes naturally to you it almost feels like cheating. I find centaurs and gnolls (in front of Paw) in SK are the easiest. Some people may have seen me aoe kiting the gnolls today - I was able to do five at a time without getting hit (with about 3 blues and 2 light blues).

I'm sad I didn't do this at an earlier level, as I'm level 38 now and kiting the gnolls just isn't that good for exp. I'd like to know if there are any better kiting spots for my level.

[danno]

Just thought I'd drop my 2cp in here real quick, atleast on this topic. I noticed a short while back that this particular instance, if you cast a DoT with the proper instrument up, and keep the song up without twisting, but swap in your weapons, for example, the damage will stay the same as if you were using the instrument. Aka.. You cast Tuyen's Chant of Flame with drums equipped, it lands and does 40 some-odd damage, then while keeping Tuyen's going, swap in your weapons and attack, the dot will continue doing the same level of damage. It's when you have to re-play the same song that the damage modifier will dissipate, if not using the proper instrument.

[Lazortag]

Just thought I'd drop my 2cp in here real quick, atleast on this topic. I noticed a short while back that this particular instance, if you cast a DoT with the proper instrument up, and keep the song up without twisting, but swap in your weapons, for example, the damage will stay the same as if you were using the instrument. Aka.. You cast Tuyen's Chant of Flame with drums equipped, it lands and does 40 some-odd damage, then while keeping Tuyen's going, swap in your weapons and attack, the dot will continue doing the same level of damage. It's when you have to re-play the same song that the damage modifier will dissipate, if not using the proper instrument.

Yeah, I think everyone knows that, but it's good you mentioned it at least. The remaining effects of the song will stay modified but if you re-play the song it won't.

[Nikon]

Cribanox, one of the best posts I have yet to see on this forum. Thanks for the time and info.

[Cribanox]

No problem

[Ajax]

How does everyone twist? On live i used to have a macro for each song but i can't remember it now. Something like

button 1:
/startsong 1
/pause xx
/stopsong

button 2
/startsong 2
/pause xx
/stopsong

button 3
/startsong 3
/pause xx
/stopsong


Anyone have a song macro to share?

[Jeice]

we do it the normal way.

[guineapig]

I'm old school, I click-twist.

[MiRo2]

I use

/stopsong
/cast #

[madara]

Ugh the pain, we cant charm kite? Definitely thinking of putting the bard on ice then. Got myself to 11 but its been a huge pain with how fast the mobs run, thought if I made it too 27 at least I had charm. Now I understand those 25ish naked bards cleaning house in EC selling all their gear :(

[Jete]

We CAN charm kite, just its really bugged right now.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11990

Bump it if you care about it!

[Toomuch]

Some people seem to be complaining a lot about bards... meanwhile I'm loving it. I'm really mastering ae kiting... if you get really good at it, and can find a spot to always be doing it, I don't see how charm kiting could possibly be any better exp. I'm AE kiting aviaks in SK, just dinged 20, I'm strapped for time otherwise I'd be going tons faster. Anyways the point is I always kite at least 5 mobs, and three times today I kited 7 mobs at a time, one time I had 5 yellow aviak rooks and 2 blue darters, this was at level 19, dinged me to 20 on that pull :). I'm getting to the point where honestly I rarely get touched anymore.

Warning: Spoiler Alert (imo ;))

Some personal preferences: I'm twisting with the number keys above wasd with my left hand and using the arrow keys with my right hand for movement, ignoring the mouse when I kite. I've also heard of mapping your songs to the right hand numpad and running with wasd. Technically, you can set it up to do both, and switch if your hands are getting tired doing it one way (that's what she said).

Another important (at least in my opinion) note for bards that want to mess around with this: I personally have been only using a lute to kite with (not using a brass instrument), twisting in healsong if I'm at all hurt, and using both chords of dissonance and dennon's disruptive dischord. I have a few reasons why I do this. By using a stringed instrument the hymn heals you for way more and you inevitably take damage here and there. I HATE to die, so I like to heal up nearly to full before I resume damage if I've taken a serious blow. Another reason for the stringed over brass - chords is NEVER resisted, but dennon's seems to get resisted a TON, so amplifying my unresistable damage vs doing more damage if dennon's lands (which it usually does, dont get me wrong)... imo the damage breaks about even. I find it better to just do it with the lute in order to heal faster, but it's of course your call.

Because the dots last long enough, I'm usually twisting something like this: selos, chords, selos, dennon's, selos, hymn, selos, chords, selos, dennon's, selos, hymn... etc. skipping hymn if I'm at full life.

As for specific kite pattern, what's working for me is an oval. Fairly fast on and off with turn key tapping and ever so shortly holding the key down, repeated very fast, WHILE I'm starting my dot song (so as to slightly close the gap between you and your assailants so it lands). Then when I'm playing selos (or hymn), I'm still tapping the turn key pretty quickly, only I'm not holding it down hardly at all, and the interval is just barely lengthened as well. Makes you run a tighter corner to hit them with the dot, and have more space when all you're doing is healing or refreshing selos. It most definitely takes some practice, but this, to me, is the winner out of all the ways.

Hit me up in game (Relent) if you wanna see it in action or wanna chat it up. PS Lf port to toxx for invis song :D

[valorborn]

Some people seem to be complaining a lot about bards... meanwhile I'm loving it. I'm really mastering ae kiting... if you get really good at it, and can find a spot to always be doing it, I don't see how charm kiting could possibly be any better exp. I'm AE kiting aviaks in SK, just dinged 20, I'm strapped for time otherwise I'd be going tons faster. Anyways the point is I always kite at least 5 mobs, and three times today I kited 7 mobs at a time, one time I had 5 yellow aviak rooks and 2 blue darters, this was at level 19, dinged me to 20 on that pull :). I'm getting to the point where honestly I rarely get touched anymore.


Your post makes me sad, as does the OP's. Saying bard kiting here takes more skill to pull off is one thing but kiting 4-7 mobs as a bard as the standard is lame.
You should be able to kite all the aviaks + all the gnolls at the paw. That's actually why it is called swarm kiting instead of quad kiting like with a dru/shm/wiz.
Fact that you have to pretty much accept getting hit a few times during every pull makes it impossible to swarm kite. Reduces bards into a force to be less reckoned with than a druid for soloing.

Although I think that bards literally less than a shadow of their former glory (good luck EVER soloing Tantor when they launch velious). It is probably for the best in a way as it keeps people from dinging 5 and soloing orc hill. Not that I didn't make a bard as soon as I logged in the first time and promptly leveled up to 5 only to find out that I barely outrun a mob with using Selo's and no drum. I love bards but I am pretty bummed out about this.

Valorborn

[nalkin]

I recently made a video of AE kiting here. Its with 7 mobs, I couldn't find any more at the time because it was crowded, but I have done ~11 with red con gnolls/DB aviaks. Hope its helpful for anyone who wants to see what its like.

I am positive the OP mentioned these things but I am going to reiterate what I have learned from the short duration that I have been kiting with a bard on p99.

1a) Mobs have incredibly huge hit ranges when you are running straight. I specifically left a clip in that demonstrates this. When I pull the first mob, I will zig-zag away and not be hit. Shortly after you will see me running from the same mob and I am running straight and he will hit me from a ridiculous distance (~:40 into the video).

1b) NEVER RUN STRAIGHT. Even if keeping your circular motion mean you will be closer to the mobs do it.

2) The distance that the songs can go is so short that you must kite in an oval. Ideally the song will be cast during the time you are on one of the small sides of the oval, as that is when the mob is closest to you.

3) Never run straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_ag6U1Z6U

[Lanvaren]

Nalkin, your video is the swellest thing around.

That's a very big compliment coming from me.

[Sareil]

I was wondering why all of a sudden I head to WC and start getting hit when I kite, theres a lot more room to run straight there compared to EC so I was being lazy. I get it now, but it doesnt make sense imo.

This is an excellent thread.

[Sareil]

How does everyone twist? On live i used to have a macro for each song but i can't remember it now. Something like

button 1:
/startsong 1
/pause xx
/stopsong

button 2
/startsong 2
/pause xx
/stopsong

button 3
/startsong 3
/pause xx
/stopsong


Anyone have a song macro to share?

Different macros for different situations. Kiting, mine look like yours. Grouping or Toe to toe soloing I use something like this:

/stopsong
/pause 31, cast 1
/stopsong
/pause 31, cast 2
/stopsong

This way I can four-twist with 2 buttons. It does require that you be aware enough to know when to break the two button dance and manually four twist if something in the situation changes, but I find that this works 90% of the time.

[Lazortag]

I want to make an instructional video of this being done with spectres (because it's a whole different animal from doing it with gnolls/centaurs/etc.), but apparently FRAPS only lets you do 30 second videos? Is there some other better program?

[nalkin]

Just kited 15 at once :)

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3812/eq000044.png (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/eq000044.png/)

[knottyb0y]

We need a p1999 bard board. Who seconds that notion?

Difficult class to learn. We must educate ourselves to educate others.

Things like solo techniques
group techniques
raid techniques
where to go for loot and quests. Bards have changed so much on live its really difficult to find valid information anymore. I think more than any other class we need to rebuild our library of knowledge ourselves for this server. Kinda exciting.

[Lazortag]

We need a p1999 bard board. Who seconds that notion?

Difficult class to learn. We must educate ourselves to educate others.

Things like solo techniques
group techniques
raid techniques
where to go for loot and quests. Bards have changed so much on live its really difficult to find valid information anymore. I think more than any other class we need to rebuild our library of knowledge ourselves for this server. Kinda exciting.

I also want to create a thread on what people who aren't bards should worry about when grouping with them, but I won't do it if it's just going to be drowned in the rest of the server chat topics. Things like when they get mana song, what restrictions they have on their mez/charms, etc.

[toddfx]

The info here and that video are extremely helpful!

I'm a level 18 bard in the early stages of learning to AE kite. I have been at it for 2 hours tonight and already notice a dramatic improvement. I am still doing singles, as I have not nailed the turning rhythm. I take enough damage to require a regen time-out half way through most battles.

I am still learning, but here are a few things I found which I did not know 2 hours ago:
1) Listening to music screws up my turning rhythm! I keep wanting to tap my finger to the beat of the music.
2) Changing movement keys to WASD gave me immediate improvement! It lets my right hand control the mouse to cycle instruments as well as cast song macros.
3) Swapping instruments is DEFINITELY worth the hassle. I started off just using the drum, and it was taking a lot longer to kill the mob than it does now when I pop in the lute and horn for AE.
4) Level ground with an unobstructed view is key. I find myself getting hit more when I am on a hill or there is a tree somewhere in my path or view.
5) Pathing mobs in SK are very annoying. Also, elephants have very far reach.

Anyway, I still have a long way to go but I have already worked my way up to killing single yellows without having to take too much of a health regen break.

Just thought i'd offer my thanks and two cents.

[toddfx]

WHOA.

Right after posting that last response, I alt+tabbed back into EQ and accidentally aggroed 2 yellow aviaks and a blue. I said what the hell and just went for it. I concentrated hard on keeping my rhythm and ended up killing them all without major incident. Then just as they were about dead, I somehow got another yellow and a red on me! I got the red down to 50% before losing my rhythm and taking a bunch of hits, but came in for a second go-around and killed them both!

My heart hasn't beat that fast in EQ since Live...nor have I got that much experience from a handful of kills since I was level 3!

I'm a believer!

[Cyph]

Hah, nice work toddfx :) When I get a few more levels under my belt I'm going to hit it up :)

[nalkin]

New personal best. 18. And if you include the lion that happened on me in the middle of the kite, 19. All the mobs were DB - red, and at level 24/25 (as I leveled in the middle of this one) I netted about 1.2 yellows from the whole thing.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5232/eq000047.png (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/eq000047.png/)

[guineapig]

Good stuff Nalkin!

[Cyph]

Nicely done nalkin!

What level would a bard be able to perform such heroic feats? I'm currently level 10 and getting tired of Crushbone :)

[Lazortag]

You can do it at level 10 but you might need SoW, or you might need to start learning how to swap instruments quickly, because Selo's with a lute just won't be enough speed I don't think.

[nalkin]

Nicely done nalkin!

What level would a bard be able to perform such heroic feats? I'm currently level 10 and getting tired of Crushbone :)

Not really sure, the question is going to be whether or not you are fast enough with selos + drums. Id guess you are but I can't say for certain since I didn't do it below level 20. Best way to see if you can is to go out and try it. Grab an orc or 2 and kite it around. Do it several times, because when I first started I would get hit all the time and I didn't even think it was possible without regening in the middle of it, which imo makes it not worth it. Once you get it down though you will rarely ever get hit.

If you get it down though /wave goodbye to all your grouping friends cause the xp is way faster. Also get ready for everyone in SK to hate you haha.

[Gratal]

I saw this post recently (level 7) and got to 8 very quickly. A few things I notice is with low level kiting the mobs don't hit for much, but you have low hp and almost no AC. Also, you MUST switch Lute...it's a difference between 4dmg and 8dmg a tick. On a side note, I was kiting 3 lionesses in EC and an SK ran by, stopped and stared at me. Then commented on how he didn't know bards could do that on this server. Excellent post! Helped me alot.

[Lazortag]

If you get it down though /wave goodbye to all your grouping friends cause the xp is way faster. Also get ready for everyone in SK to hate you haha.

Actually at higher levels there aren't many mobs you can aoe kite, at least that I know of in classic. Spectres are good for a while but the exp isn't as good as grouping (the loot is totally worth it though).

[Messianic]

I recently made a video of AE kiting here. Its with 7 mobs, I couldn't find any more at the time because it was crowded, but I have done ~11 with red con gnolls/DB aviaks. Hope its helpful for anyone who wants to see what its like.

I am positive the OP mentioned these things but I am going to reiterate what I have learned from the short duration that I have been kiting with a bard on p99.

1a) Mobs have incredibly huge hit ranges when you are running straight. I specifically left a clip in that demonstrates this. When I pull the first mob, I will zig-zag away and not be hit. Shortly after you will see me running from the same mob and I am running straight and he will hit me from a ridiculous distance (~:40 into the video).

1b) NEVER RUN STRAIGHT. Even if keeping your circular motion mean you will be closer to the mobs do it.

2) The distance that the songs can go is so short that you must kite in an oval. Ideally the song will be cast during the time you are on one of the small sides of the oval, as that is when the mob is closest to you.

3) Never run straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_ag6U1Z6U

Cool stuff. Curiosity - how long, in full, does it take to complete one of these mega-swarm kites of 15-18ish? Counting gathering the mobs and actually doing the kite, etc, it seems to take between 7-10 minutes. For killing 18 red/yellowish mobs, that's a very good rate ;)

[nalkin]

Cool stuff. Curiosity - how long, in full, does it take to complete one of these mega-swarm kites of 15-18ish? Counting gathering the mobs and actually doing the kite, etc, it seems to take between 7-10 minutes. For killing 18 red/yellowish mobs, that's a very good rate ;)

It all depends how crowded it is. Usually I run from ~bridge/stables to splitpaw and then to aviaks. If its crowded though you have to try to get some roamers in the interim. The actual kite (excluding gathering) takes about 4-8 min depending how many resists you get with the red cons. So on average I would say on average about 15 min.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Where do the screenshots dump to? Im having problems finding the picture i took earlier today.

Swarm kited 12 Koholds in Steamfont at lvl5, wanted to post pic of it 8)

Only reason i wanted to post was somone told me last night after i died doing it, that it was impossible at lvl5 to do it, i wanted to show them its harder, but doable 8)

[nalkin]

Where do the screenshots dump to? Im having problems finding the picture i took earlier today.

Swarm kited 12 Koholds in Steamfont at lvl5, wanted to post pic of it 8)

Only reason i wanted to post was somone told me last night after i died doing it, that it was impossible at lvl5 to do it, i wanted to show them its harder, but doable 8)

Awesome! Sometimes they aren't in the EQ folder, do a search over your system for "screenshots" Does the trick for me.

[Kender]

nice... i'd imagine it would be alot easier and faster at 8 though. can drum/lute swap to do more damage from discord

[nalkin]

NEW RECORD - 28. They were mostly all DB with a couple yellow/red.

I pulled the entire stables, ALOT of roamers all over, few gnolls, and some aviaks from the aviak tower. Netted about 1.8 yellows.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6581/eq000054.png (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/eq000054.png/)

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8468/eq000057.png (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/eq000057.png/)

[Pescador]

Not sure if selos at level 8 is enough to create the ovals needed for kiting. I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt you could do it efficiently unless you have the steady hands of a surgeon. I would just wait until 18 so you can twist your two aoe dots and cut your kiting time in half

[guineapig]

From my experience AoE does not work too well on any type of Giants.

Due to how large the circle has to be in order for them to not be able to hit you and how small the AoE range is you end up being out of range so often that it becomes mostly inefficient. Of course you almost never find 2 giants up at the same time any more...

[Lazortag]

From my experience AoE does not work too well on any type of Giants.

Due to how large the circle has to be in order for them to not be able to hit you and how small the AoE range is you end up being out of range so often that it becomes mostly inefficient. Of course you almost never find 2 giants up at the same time any more...

The same applies to cyclopses though, which means unfortunately it's extremely hard to aoe kite seafuries. Oh well. Maybe p99 is healthier without Bards being able to solo the whole island.

[JayDee]

P99 is supposed to replicate EQlive.

Why not nerf necros because they can solo frenzy in guk and that's unfair ?

Infact, I hear the biggest problem now is enchanters being able to charm mobs in sky to easily take down bosses that were impossible back in the day on live. We are talking about fucking raid bosses here. Nerf enchanters !!!

I appreciate Haynar's efforts he has put into fixing bards but AoE kiting needs to be looked at. It was much easier to execute on live and some pulls are impossible here like kiting all of seafury island.

Newsflash - Bards should be way OP outdoors

[Musetii]

I'm sad brews that AE kiting sucks. FBSS rotting in rathe mnts due to final death of giants.

[Lazortag]

Not as impressive as Nalkin doing 20+ mobs, but still the best I could do:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5227/eightspecs.png

[Lazortag]

P99 is supposed to replicate EQlive.

Why not nerf necros because they can solo frenzy in guk and that's unfair ?

Infact, I hear the biggest problem now is enchanters being able to charm mobs in sky to easily take down bosses that were impossible back in the day on live. We are talking about fucking raid bosses here. Nerf enchanters !!!

I appreciate Haynar's efforts he has put into fixing bards but AoE kiting needs to be looked at. It was much easier to execute on live and some pulls are impossible here like kiting all of seafury island.

Newsflash - Bards should be way OP outdoors

Your entire post is a strawman - why do you assume that Bards are being nerfed on purpose? Things like run speed and large hitboxes are technical issues that affect everyone. Do you really think that the devs aren't actually looking into the issues people have posited? I wouldn't blame them if they just ignored you out of spite considering in every single one of your posts you whine about a class that you don't even play. Seriously.

Also, on another note, have you even been reading this thread? Can you seriously complain about a class that can kite 28 mobs at once, or that can take on the entire spectre island at once? Seriously? Seriously?!?

[Messianic]

Your entire post is a strawman - why do you assume that Bards are being nerfed on purpose? Things like run speed and large hitboxes are technical issues that affect everyone. Do you really think that the devs aren't actually looking into the issues people have posited? I wouldn't blame them if they just ignored you out of spite considering in every single one of your posts you whine about a class that you don't even play. Seriously.

Also, on another note, have you even been reading this thread? Can you seriously complain about a class that can kite 28 mobs at once, or that can take on the entire spectre island at once? Seriously? Seriously?!?

It's the internet. If someone's not complaining, theyre finding something to complain about.

I seriously believe it's why 75% of the people in R & F are there - unhealthy need for attention, to attack other people or to complain.

[nalkin]

Not as impressive as Nalkin doing 20+ mobs, but still the best I could do:

Nice!! Gonna have to give spectres a go myself one day... was that good xp, or are you a very high level?

[JayDee]

Also, on another note, have you even been reading this thread? Can you seriously complain about a class that can kite 28 mobs at once, or that can take on the entire spectre island at once? Seriously? Seriously?!?

Some classes are more OP than others in certain situations. The ultimate goal is to replicate EQ live.

What if they removed harm shield from necros? Would your argument be "Can you seriously complain about a class that can solo frenzy, or that can fear kite the entire spectre island at once? Seriously? Seriously?!?"

TLDR : you are an idiot

[citizen1080]

I used to aoe kite half the plan of valor at once and tables in pof.....bards should be op !

[Lazortag]

Nice!! Gonna have to give spectres a go myself one day... was that good xp, or are you a very high level?

I'm level 50 (and was 50 when I did that), but I could have done it at least at level 43 when I got my levi cloak (and when I first started kiting spectres) - it's just I had never seen all eight spectres open at once, I usually got to leach off the top 3 (and maybe the torch spawn if someone was feeling generous). I had never tried earlier but I assume it's just a matter of being a level where you have appropriate AC and don't get too many resists from DDD.


Some classes are more OP than others in certain situations. The ultimate goal is to replicate EQ live.

What if they removed harm shield from necros? Would your argument be "Can you seriously complain about a class that can solo frenzy, or that can fear kite the entire spectre island at once? Seriously? Seriously?!?"

TLDR : you are an idiot

You don't get it. My point is not that they should never fix Bards to be more classic, my point is that you should stop complaining and keep your concerns in the appropriate forum. Also I think you have to actually play a Bard before you can have a valid opinion on whether they're "broken" enough that it warrants whining in every thread about it.

Your example about removing harm shield for necros is kind of funny, because I would definitely ridicule you if you complained non-stop about such a minor classic inconsistency.

[Uthgaard]

To be honest, this whole rhetoric is becoming fairly cliché. Anything that isn't classic but actually gives someone an unintended advantage gets abused and goes unreported by the entire server for a year. (Selling mystic cloaks, anyone?)

Bard posts might get looked at more if they kept it to the facts and didn't become 15 page pissing matches. No one wants to dig through your petty arguments to find the little nuggets of factual evidence.

[citizen1080]

Fact : bards were op

Make it so !

=)

[citizen1080]

Fact : bards were op

Make it so !

=)

[falkun]

Ok, I recommend starting a list of good places to bard kite. The most recommended spot for bard AE kiting is aviaks starting at around L19-23ish. This doesn't help someone like me who is only L9. So, I'm going to start my leveling list:

1-5 Newbie area. You won't be kiting much, you don't have selos and chanting could cause more harm than good due to MOB density.

5-7 Orc Hill in GFay. Spot #1 from this map of GFay (http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/Zone_Greater_Faydark). Group or lull to pull solos. If solo try to avoid oracles. Again you may not be actually kiting a whole lot.

7-8 I recommend the bandit camp in GFay. Spot #3 from this map of GFay (http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/Zone_Greater_Faydark). I grouped in CB, but the grouping was hit or miss. Here is where you can begin to actually start your career bard kiting; you'll finally have selos, so you can begin the process of learning to swap instruments and twisting chords/selos/hymn (as needed). Also, by L9, the bandit exp is a bit on the slow side.

9+ I found two nice camps of higher level CB Orc Centurions in LFay. Spots #6 & 11 on this map of LFay (http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/Zone_Lesser_Faydark). At 9, I have been pulling one whole camp and twisting it down with chords and selos, adding hymn as necessary. However, as I'm still learning the exactness of turning in for chords range, I am dieing quite frequently. If I pull each camp as two pulls, I could probably clear both camps before respawns and just about never die. I will probably spend a few levels here as the orcs /CON Dark Blue to the occasional yellow. As I get better at kiting I may try to kite both camps together.

19-23 Aviaks in SK. I believe its Spot #9 from this map of SK (http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/Zone_Southern_Karana).

I have subscribed to this awesome tome of bardic knowledge and will try to keep this thread up to date with good bard kite locations.

[Mcbard]

I have nothing to add other than the fact that I think this is an excellent thread (minus all of the bickering).

Being a low level bard, I had tried kiting and noticed the hitbox issues and had almost given up to re-roll as a necromancer (the class I am at heart) before rereading this thread and learning about the zig-zag trick to overcome the issue, so thanks a bunch! :)

[Excision Rottun]

You had to invs or break charm before your pet started running. If you break charm after your pet begins to run, you won't recieve any EXP. If you were able to break charm before your pet started running, you would finish it off with DDs and DoTs, and then repeat with the next monster.

This is incorrect (at least in Luclin / PoP era, I never swarm kited before then).

I used to break mobs at 1% and 0% regularly with my Goblin Gazughi Ring and receive full XP.

[Arkanjil]

Here's a bit of advice also.....every bard should get themselves a pair of jboots. Not having to cast selos while kiting is so so nice! And Jboots seem to give me the perfect speed I need for kiting.

[Mcbard]

Cool song list: http://crys.org/everquest/spells/bardsongs_az.asp

Better than Allah's imo because it's much less updated which helps when finding certain songs and merchants in zones that have been redone on live. Includes locs for most merchants. An example would be Inisis Trimpet, whom Allah's states is in East Freeport, but she is actually in North.

[jimmygarr]

Great advice and very cool video, Nalkin. If you don't mind me asking, what is that UI that you are using? I liked the swap spot for weapons/instruments there.

[Lazortag]

Here's a bit of advice also.....every bard should get themselves a pair of jboots. Not having to cast selos while kiting is so so nice! And Jboots seem to give me the perfect speed I need for kiting.

Actually just use selo's without a drum if it's too fast, or weigh yourself down, or etc. I'm so used to using selo's that I'd never be able to just use jboots!

[nalkin]

Great advice and very cool video, Nalkin. If you don't mind me asking, what is that UI that you are using? I liked the swap spot for weapons/instruments there.

Thanks. I use that UI exclusively for that swap box.

you can download it here:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7850

and you can get different spell gems here:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11949

I should say, you can get the same effect with the hotbars, but I like the way the box on this UI is setup better.

[quellren]

As a long-time admirer of bards, I recently took the plunge and scrounged up a pile of mismatched gear (Thanks Gidro!) and rolled my own.
This thread has been invaluable for insights into the art of swarm kiting

Nalkin that video was amazing. I actually bookmarked it for ongoing review on 'how it's done'
Be aware I'll likely pester you (and other bards) with PM'd questions in the near future.

Edit:
I need help with twisting macros.
This works fine, but is only one song per button:
/stopcast
/cast #
/pause 31
/stopcast

I've read that /pause can be followed with another command in the same line but can't get it to actually work.
Does /pause only fork when followed with /cast? or can it /pause 31 then /stopcast?

[Arkanjil]

Actually just use selo's without a drum if it's too fast, or weigh yourself down, or etc. I'm so used to using selo's that I'd never be able to just use jboots!

Yeah definitely a good idea! The nice thing about having jboots though is you can twist an additional dps song in place of selos. :)

[Teseer]

I cry when I'm just running SoW speed. I can't imagine going back to Jboots.

[Arkanjil]

Just use jboots for kiting purposes. Selos for everything else.

[Teseer]

I couldn't take it, but that's just me.

[Mcbard]

As a long-time admirer of bards, I recently took the plunge and scrounged up a pile of mismatched gear (Thanks Gidro!) and rolled my own.
This thread has been invaluable for insights into the art of swarm kiting

Nalkin that video was amazing. I actually bookmarked it for ongoing review on 'how it's done'
Be aware I'll likely pester you (and other bards) with PM'd questions in the near future.

Edit:
I need help with twisting macros.
This works fine, but is only one song per button:
/stopcast
/cast #
/pause 31
/stopcast

I've read that /pause can be followed with another command in the same line but can't get it to actually work.
Does /pause only fork when followed with /cast? or can it /pause 31 then /stopcast?

Here's an example of my hotbuttons taken from my uifile:

Page2Button5Name=Group1
Page2Button5Color=11
Page2Button5Line1=/stopsong
Page2Button5Line2=/pause 31, /cast 1
Page2Button5Line4=/pause 31, /cast 3
Page2Button5Line3=/stopsong
Page2Button6Name=Group2
Page2Button6Color=4
Page2Button6Line1=/stopsong
Page2Button6Line2=/pause 31, /cast 2
Page2Button6Line3=/stopsong
Page2Button6Line4=/pause 31, /cast 5

[Cribanox]

As a long-time admirer of bards, I recently took the plunge and scrounged up a pile of mismatched gear (Thanks Gidro!) and rolled my own.
This thread has been invaluable for insights into the art of swarm kiting

Nalkin that video was amazing. I actually bookmarked it for ongoing review on 'how it's done'
Be aware I'll likely pester you (and other bards) with PM'd questions in the near future.

Edit:
I need help with twisting macros.
This works fine, but is only one song per button:
/stopcast
/cast #
/pause 31
/stopcast

I've read that /pause can be followed with another command in the same line but can't get it to actually work.
Does /pause only fork when followed with /cast? or can it /pause 31 then /stopcast?

I've never used macros. Manual drive is the best way to have 100% control imo.

[guineapig]

I've never used macros. Manual drive is the best way to have 100% control imo.

Agreed! Have never used a bard macro. That's just weak sauce.

[quellren]

So for you macro shunners, do you have stopcast buttons like the one I posted, or do you double-tap each key? i.e....
hotkey 1 (start song 1)
wait 3 sec (casting song 1)
hotkey 2 (stop song 1)
hotkey 2 (start song 2)
wait 3 sec (casting song 2)
hotkey 3 (stop song 2)
hotkey 3 (start song 3)...
?
More than once I've missed a note, or gotten interrupted and it's kinda thrown my rythmn off as my song was ended, then I hit the hotkey that expect to stopcast, but it instead started that song over.

I apologize for the seriously lame questions, just trying to learn now so I don't dissapoint. ;)

[Mcbard]

So for you macro shunners, do you have stopcast buttons like the one I posted, or do you double-tap each key? i.e....
hotkey 1 (start song 1)
wait 3 sec (casting song 1)
hotkey 2 (stop song 1)
hotkey 2 (start song 2)
wait 3 sec (casting song 2)
hotkey 3 (stop song 2)
hotkey 3 (start song 3)...
?
More than once I've missed a note, or gotten interrupted and it's kinda thrown my rythmn off as my song was ended, then I hit the hotkey that expect to stopcast, but it instead started that song over.

I apologize for the seriously lame questions, just trying to learn now so I don't dissapoint. ;)

That's how I do it when I'm not using my hotbuttons.

[MiRo2]

I need help with twisting macros.
This works fine, but is only one song per button:
/stopcast
/cast #
/pause 31
/stopcast

I've read that /pause can be followed with another command in the same line but can't get it to actually work.
Does /pause only fork when followed with /cast? or can it /pause 31 then /stopcast?



Rogean: Disabled /stopcast


/Stopcast was disabled in a previous patch, though I believe /Stopsong still works, though I am unsure if that is intentional or just overlooked. I haven't used macro buttons for a long time on my bard, dragging the song gems to my hot buttons works far better for me than my hot buttons did.

When I did use my macros they looked like this

/Stopsong
/Cast #

[Pescador]

I've experimented with some macros and ultimately, missed notes and other factors make macros really unsuitable for kiting. I sometimes use them in stable groups where it isn't critical to hit EVERY single song, but otherwise I just use the aforementioned macro of:

/stopsong
/cast #

for each song. Beats double-tapping, but it's still killer on the fingers.

[Snigel]

it works from level 5 with a drum. Im netting about 4 blues per pull, but it's definitely not the same as it was on live with song vs mob reach. Much more risky, dying ALOT, but getting the hang of it soon i hope :)

[Dr4z3r]

For those of you wondering about macros:

- Start every song macro with /stopsong, but don't bother putting it at the end of a macro. There are two reasons to ever want to stop a song: To start another song, or to avoid aggroing mobs with offensive songs. In both cases, you solve your problem by just starting every macro with /stopsong.

- You only need Pause 30 between songs in a multi-song macro. You might end up cutting yourself off if you were playing with 0ms latency, but there's currently no issue in regular play with having pause 30. (You might even be able to push it with pause 29...)

- I haven't been able to get /cast to work on the same line as /pause. Am I doing it wrong?

Also, I can't stop myself from wondering every time I read this thread:

Here is how I am doing it right now. I will get Selo's on, go gather up about 5 blue con mobs, and then slowly circle around in a large area to get them all in a bunch (tightly fit together, you can't have your mobs spread apart).

Next, I make sure I have Regen, and my current DoTs and DD's memmed (Right now, at 19, that's the lvl 2 and lvl 18 dots and the bruscos DD).

WTF do you do if you don't have them memmed, now that you're already kiting 5 con blue mobs???

[guineapig]

Unless there is a macro that lets me twist 5 songs, it's inferior to mouse clicking.

[Mcbard]

You only need Pause 30 between songs in a multi-song macro. You might end up cutting yourself off if you were playing with 0ms latency, but there's currently no issue in regular play with having pause 30. (You might even be able to push it with pause 29...)

- I haven't been able to get /cast to work on the same line as /pause. Am I doing it wrong?



I had issues with pause 30 when I first started, so I switched to 31 and it worked fine. I recently tried 30 again and it works fine now. My ping has been about 40ms higher but other than that nothing else has changed. *shrug*

To put them on the same line, the commands need to be separated by a comma followed by a space.

Ex: "/pause 30, /cast 1"

Edit: 5 song macro from my head, can't recall how many lines are on a hotbutton but I think it's 5, would be accomplished with 6 anyway obviously :P
Hotbutton 1
Line1=/stopsong
Line2=/pause 30, /cast 1
Line3=/stopsong
Line4=/pause 30, /cast 2
Line5=/stopsong

Hotbutton 2
Line1=/pause 30, /cast 3
Line2=/stopsong
Line3=/pause 30, /cast 4
Line4=/stopsong
Line5=/pause 30, /cast 5

[Runningfish]

I didn't take the time to read through this entire thread because I'm at work, I did however want to throw in my 2 copper regarding the OP.

I dont exactly find what he's saying to be true about not being able to pull off a dot without being hit when running in a straight line. I'm probably one of the few bards that does this the way I do but I've found it be extremely effective on this server. Essentially instead of using a tight circle I do somewhat of a oval shape (think nascar). I've found that if your using all 3 instruments ( a pain but once you get used to it it's easy) you should be able to slow down when your ready to land a dot by tapping w and then when your casting bar has about a half a bubble left keep w down and you should be able to still hit everything and make it away without getting hit. Sometimes ill do this when on the turn of the oval but often times I do it when just running straight. I worked on the circle method for a long time but found that it was nearly impossible to do without getting hit. With the method I'm currently using I'm able to kite 14-15 (once 18 mobs all blue) and only get hit when I either mess up or get unlucky. I've gone entire pulls without being hit and using this method it makes the time between dots a lot safer since your not still circling.. All in all I find it to be a lot less stressful and and easier to manage.

I've shown another bard friend of mine around the same level this tactic, he was previously having a hard time kiting and was ready to give up on it. Once he started doing it he was having a ton of success. I know I didn't go into too much detail here since I'm at work but if anyone is curious about this or having trouble kiting id be happy to help.

[Messianic]

Not sure if selos at level 8 is enough to create the ovals needed for kiting. I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt you could do it efficiently unless you have the steady hands of a surgeon. I would just wait until 18 so you can twist your two aoe dots and cut your kiting time in half

I noticed at 8 that i couldn't do the oval very often without getting beaten on; my char simply wasn't fast enough to do it consistently yet with a bunch of mobs (even with MM drums). However, I found a lot of success with an S pattern instead.

I think the key is that mob hit boxes are shaped somewhat like an elongated diamond - the further on their flank you are, the harder it is for them to hit you at distance. At lower levels, it's harder to stay out of that hit box because selo's isn't as quick. Still works tho.

[Mcbard]

So I dinged 26 the other night in SK, but I had a quick question regarding aviaks before I just kept on doing what I do. I generally run to the top if it's uncamped, circle up all the mobs there, run out back and grab the rook that spawns by the merchant, then head down the tower grabbing them all on the way before attempting to get the rest of the mobs chilling out on the ground around the tower. I was wondering, is this place a camp? Can I get in trouble for doing that if there is a mage camping 1 respawning aviak half way up the tower (this was actually the case last night). If it is a camp, is it acceptable to just call the entire thing camped if it's not taken when I get in the zone? Killing 4-5 mobs at a time is such a waste when I can just as easily kill 15-20. :(

[Francois]

So I dinged 26 the other night in SK, but I had a quick question regarding aviaks before I just kept on doing what I do. I generally run to the top if it's uncamped, circle up all the mobs there, run out back and grab the rook that spawns by the merchant, then head down the tower grabbing them all on the way before attempting to get the rest of the mobs chilling out on the ground around the tower. I was wondering, is this place a camp? Can I get in trouble for doing that if there is a mage camping 1 respawning aviak half way up the tower (this was actually the case last night). If it is a camp, is it acceptable to just call the entire thing camped if it's not taken when I get in the zone? Killing 4-5 mobs at a time is such a waste when I can just as easily kill 15-20. :(

I was thinking this exact same thing last time...which didn't matter because the two times I pulled the camp EQ decided to close itself. But that's not the point. This is...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653

The two rules that stand out for claiming a camp is that you have to be present (not kiting way off in the field to the east of KFC) and that you have to be able to handle all the mobs, which is definitely possible, but you might have a hard time convincing other players of that.

Also, my kite shape looks like a lemon. That's all.

[Teseer]

When I was kiting in SK, I limited myself to mostly Roamers. Just run around for a few and grab any blue thats just running around. That way you don't step on any toes for camped creatures.
I did take any uncamped mobs as well, if there was no one camping them.

[Dr4z3r]

So I dinged 26 the other night in SK, but I had a quick question regarding aviaks before I just kept on doing what I do. I generally run to the top if it's uncamped, circle up all the mobs there, run out back and grab the rook that spawns by the merchant, then head down the tower grabbing them all on the way before attempting to get the rest of the mobs chilling out on the ground around the tower. I was wondering, is this place a camp? Can I get in trouble for doing that if there is a mage camping 1 respawning aviak half way up the tower (this was actually the case last night). If it is a camp, is it acceptable to just call the entire thing camped if it's not taken when I get in the zone? Killing 4-5 mobs at a time is such a waste when I can just as easily kill 15-20. :(

This is basically why I left the Karanas after 24 :(

[Mcbard]

This is basically why I left the Karanas after 24 :(

Where did you go? :D

[Dr4z3r]

So far, Unrest. Got my 2nd Opalline earring & lvl 25 last night, and now I'm hoping I can either get a basement group tonight, or that some people in Mistmoore will take pity on me.

P.S.

I experimented with kiting around the pond in the front of Mistmoore. Couldn't get it to work, though I didn't try long. Those con blues hit hard.

[Teseer]

Desperately looking for a good kiting spot for 34+

I can't stand SK anymore. I've just been grouping in Paw for now.

[Teseer]

Ok, I got a question I've been meaning to ask:

Kellin's Lucid Lullaby and Crission's Pixie Strike

Does the Pixie Strike simply replace the Lucid Lullaby, or is there some advantage to the Lullaby that I'm not seeing? (Caster's Realm says the Lullaby is AoE, which it isn't here, but I doubt it was ever AoE)

[Pescador]

I think lullaby only affects up to level 30 (haven't tested that), and also does not lower the target's magic resistance.

pixie strike works at least up to 45, which I have tested. Lullaby was supposed to be AOE but was useless in live if I remember correctly.

[Teseer]

So Pixie Strike does just replace the Lullaby, then.

[Nytch]

i posted on the other thread but didn't get a response. does anyone know when /melody was implemented into the original game and when we could expect it to be put into p99? I currently have a lvl 9 bard that I plan to play him to 50 either way but was just wondering. Thanks

[Secrets]

i posted on the other thread but didn't get a response. does anyone know when /melody was implemented into the original game and when we could expect it to be put into p99? I currently have a lvl 9 bard that I plan to play him to 50 either way but was just wondering. Thanks

You can expect it to never be put in here purposely, since it's not classic.

[Nytch]

You can expect it to never be put in here purposely, since it's not classic.

ok cool thanks I wasn't sure if it was put in during kunark or velious or something.

[citizen1080]

melody was like ldon i think..came out right when i quit or right before.

[ukaking]

Where are you bards kiting after lvl 24?

[guineapig]

At 24 you would most likely be making exp faster in a dungeon group chain killing yellow and red con mobs. And there are Tons of dungeon options at 24.

That being said, South Karana probably has the most blue mobs roaming around at that level. Everything from the elephants, to the cents and aviaks. They are all over the place and most of them are blue at 24.

If you want a nice quiet spot with nobody around check near the hermit hit in the south east corner of the zone. There are 2 cent spawns (roaming) , 2 gnoll spawns (static) and a bunch of elephants all fairly close to each other, and nobody is ever there.

[nalkin]

SK can take you all the way to 32ish. The main issue is that its overcamped like a mother and everyone is gonna hate you. But hey, if people don't hate you then your aren't playing a bard right. Other than that, idk, my bard is sitting at 32 right now and specs are always camped so I can't kite there. And I dread doing the whole dungeon xp cause its so slow and bleh.

[Lyrik]

Nalkin, do you use any kind of assistive software/macros to help with the circle kite? I don't have any trouble doing a circle that works without me getting hit, but after a while it kind of hurts :)

[nalkin]

Nalkin, do you use any kind of assistive software/macros to help with the circle kite? I don't have any trouble doing a circle that works without me getting hit, but after a while it kind of hurts :)

Beyond the /stopsong /cast # macros no. The way I do it is use WASD to move and the numbers on the numpad to cast songs 1-8. Its to unreliable to use a macro that does 2 songs at a time when your kiting so you really just have to go pure. And yes... it gets tiring but the actual kite shouldn't take much longer than 5 min if you are swapping instruments and landing both DOT songs.

The most annoying part for me is gathering mobs. I get 8 mobs and im like, well if I am going to kite 8 I might as well kite 15 cause there is no difference. And then if I am going to kite 15 i might as well kite 20. So I get all these mobs, then my client crashes and I rage quit.

But yah, im sitting at my computer pounding the A key (cause i run counter-clockwise personally) over and over. I like those old keyboards too, so its pretty gat dang loud.

[Lyrik]

When I'm not auto-running, I run clockwise, when auto running, I switch it up periodically so I don't fall asleep :)

I guess I really should switch over to WASD for movement, it makes a lot more sense.

[Pescador]

I get 8 mobs and im like, well if I am going to kite 8 I might as well kite 15 cause there is no difference. And then if I am going to kite 15 i might as well kite 20. So I get all these mobs, then my client crashes and I rage quit.
The life of a bard on P1999 :)

[guineapig]

Greed kills.

[Dr4z3r]

But yah, im sitting at my computer pounding the A key (cause i run counter-clockwise personally) over and over. I like those old keyboards too, so its pretty gat dang loud.

Are you a southpaw or something? I, along with everyone I've ever seen, run clockwise, mashing D. Except those crazy ones trying to figure-8...

As a result, I was pretty concerned I developed some kind of serious Repetitive Stress Injury over Halloween weekend.

The dungeon xp really isn't that bad, though. It's the finding a group that's been a problem for me.

[nalkin]

Are you a southpaw or something? I, along with everyone I've ever seen, run clockwise, mashing D.

Yah, actually, I am left-handed. Although I write with my right hand and do some other things right handed (like throwing a frisbee, or darts). I throw a ball left handed though. I guess I'm like 70% left-handed, and no im not ambidextrous.

[Mcbard]

The life of a bard on P1999 :)

Yup.. exp seems to move a lot slower when you run out of places to AE kite. :P

When it comes to circling I usually go clockwise, but at least 20% of the time I'll switch it up and start going counter clockwise to avoid hand cramps.

[karsten]

I leveled a bard to 60 on vztz, got his epic, and never played him a single time more. it's just so clickly-masochistic :(

[Xerto]

how come the write up is gone??? im trying to get a hang of this but i constantly get hit lol im practicing on some greens right now but i can run a circle around them without getting hit just fine but the dot doesnt land so i try and ease my way in and i get hit... it just seems the radius of song is exactly in there hit range heh played a bard to 80 on the level 51 server but never tried to kite with him o.0

[t0lkien]

Yeah, I really hope the devs return things to the way they were on live. Right now it seems swarm kiting is not realistically possible. They've kind of screwed the joy out of Bards a bit... not sure why.

[Taluvill]

I dont think its an easy thing to fix. Sony couldn't even get it right half the time.

[Lazortag]

Yeah, I really hope the devs return things to the way they were on live. Right now it seems swarm kiting is not realistically possible. They've kind of screwed the joy out of Bards a bit... not sure why.

I dont think its an easy thing to fix. Sony couldn't even get it right half the time.

Exactly; just assume that they're working on it.

If Cribanox doesn't repost his original write-up soon I'll write my own and start a new thread. Hopefully the devs will make a class discussion board someday to actually give me some incentive to do so.

[Mcbard]

http://pro1999.com/aoe-kiting.html

[Snigel]

What is the problem with swarm kiting as of now?

Swarm agro onto the bard instead of onto charmed mob?

[Pescador]

yes

[Levon]

What's a good level to start practicing with AoE kiting? My bard is currently level 9.

[Mcbard]

What's a good level to start practicing with AoE kiting? My bard is currently level 9.

I didn't start until I got my second AE dot at level 18, but I've heard of people doing it a lot sooner although I'm not sure how efficient it would be with only 1 AE dot and a slower selos.

[Sinder]

I didn't start until I got my second AE dot at level 18, but I've heard of people doing it a lot sooner although I'm not sure how efficient it would be with only 1 AE dot and a slower selos.

im at lvl 16 right now and i was trying to swarm in unrest. i noticed that if i didnt keep it up perfectly they would regen faster than i could dot them. that of course was without switching in a lute. at lvl 16 i can get 12dmg a tick with the gypsy lute which would probably be enough now but im still just going to wait till 18.

[Levon]

Hmm I guess I'll be waiting until 18 to actually make a career out of kiting. I'll just stick to practicing to figure out timing my turns and whatnot.

[Abysis]

This thread is useless. 15 pages of it.

[nalkin]

Sorry im a scrub, How do you patch?

Lol sometimes there are people who need a walkthrough, like that time you forgot how to patch p99.

/me highfives everyone itt

[Sinder]

Lol sometimes there are people who need a walkthrough, like that time you forgot how to patch p99.

/me highfives everyone itt

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff281/possumpants/4chanb/skeletorlold.jpg

[john_savage1982]

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/9390/phpdcghvham.jpg
some more to left and right you can't see...

anybody know a good place to swarm kite in the late 20's early 30's? I have a feeling i'm going to be killing everything in butcherblock in the mid 30's

[Lazortag]

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/9390/phpdcghvham.jpg
some more to left and right you can't see...

anybody know a good place to swarm kite in the late 20's early 30's? I have a feeling i'm going to be killing everything in butcherblock in the mid 30's

Awesome screenshot - can you post it in this thread: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23132

It would be nice if this technique was promoted more.

[Nevron]

This thread could use some advice on when / where it is *not* cool (as in really really annoying to other players in the zone) for a bard to kite a bunch of things at once.

[Daldaen]

No where. If you can kill X many mobs, you have the right to camp X many mobs. Dick move if theres a group nearby, yes. As long as you arent pulling what they are you're set imo.

[falkun]

Ok, I was kiting in OT, finding everything that was light blue - yellow to my 21-23 bard. I was making about a level every 45min-1hr, but now its starting to turn really green - light blue in that portion of OT. OT doesn't pick up again until the 30s when I can start doing the other side, over by the SF ramp (and pissing those groups off in the process).

Anyways, I'm 24 now and I need ideas for a new place to hunt, anyone?

[Darian]

Ok, I was kiting in OT, finding everything that was light blue - yellow to my 21-23 bard. I was making about a level every 45min-1hr, but now its starting to turn really green - light blue in that portion of OT. OT doesn't pick up again until the 30s when I can start doing the other side, over by the SF ramp (and pissing those groups off in the process).

Anyways, I'm 24 now and I need ideas for a new place to hunt, anyone?

South Karana, probably? Aviaks should still be good at your level

[canardvc]

SK most definately, till 29 or 30.

[Friday]

any kiting spots around 40?

[Kika Maslyaka]

http://www.gucomics.com/comics/2003/gu_20030310.jpg

[billpaleq]

so where do you go after 29?

[falkun]

so where do you go after 29?

Go back to OT. Pull the south and west sides of the zone. Walk out at 46 (can probably push the exp to 48ish). Then I've heard some going to burning wood. Personally, once I hit planar level I hung up my AE kiting hat and have focused on grouping or soloing outdoor nameds for loot.

[Messianic]

Go back to OT. Pull the south and west sides of the zone. Walk out at 46 (can probably push the exp to 48ish). Then I've heard some going to burning wood. Personally, once I hit planar level I hung up my AE kiting hat and have focused on grouping or soloing outdoor nameds for loot.

One night, I saw a 46 bard doing Spirocs in TD (he had the place to himself). He'd basically pull every single spiroc in the treehouse.

I logged on the following morning and he was 50. I assume he was doing fairly well. Spirocs are OK exp and quaddable until 53 for wizards/druids, so I assume a bard could take them just as far.

[jerus]

One night, I saw a 46 bard doing Spirocs in TD (he had the place to himself). He'd basically pull every single spiroc in the treehouse.

I logged on the following morning and he was 50. I assume he was doing fairly well. Spirocs are OK exp and quaddable until 53 for wizards/druids, so I assume a bard could take them just as far.

Think that was me hehe =) yeah spiroc for 44+ is what I did, at 43 my cactus/birds in OT went LB for some of them, so i pushed to 44, then left. Spiroc were great til like 52 then it went LB for a lot of them, random kinda anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 will be LB at 52+ it seems.

IMO good way to go would be around 18 hit EK then move to OT by Warsliks till like 24, at 24 go to SK and slaughter aviak till like 27/28 then head to centaur (slightly higher mobs) even though it sill slow down stick it out at least till 30 otherwise you can't land dots on kites in OT very easily and they stretch on till eventually kill you lol. From 30-44 hit OT cactus/birds, then move to spiroc till 52. Can do 1-52 in probably 2 weeks easy.

[parlay1]

Jerus was cool and respectful about it, I have had bards (even guildies :( ) go to TD and pull the whole tree even when there were others there single pulling and quad pulling prior to the bards arrival......bad eq etiquette! Be respectful of your fellow players and all should be good.

[alldead]

i just started doing the kiting at lvl 30 in OT. I was pulling my stuff to the low level side of the gorge to avoid pathers. I had an issue with my turns being jittery. It caused me to die 2 out of 4 large kites. I still made out in exp, but my palms were sweaty lol.

I didn't notice this at all when doing the dried up lake near WW, is this maybe due to the chamber under the earth there? Do you think tanking my clip distance would clean this up?

[jerus]

Turn spell particles off, turn DoT damage off, lower clip plane, do anything to lower lag, it's going to be bad enough with all the mobs running on your screen

As far as where to kite in OT, I had like 4 places I did, right outside the outpost by water, on the wall by outpost north? of SF, then right past the pillar/static sarnak spawn tot he south? of SF, and then out towards lowbie side by FM zone. I liked the pillar/static sarnak spawn the best though.

[machin576]

Also, use a wired connection instead of wireless. I always got hit on a wireless connection because of random lag spikes. On a wired, I only get hit when it is my fault. And everything that Jerus said.

[hdawg06]

What songs would best be fit for kiting in OT on the hardish side at 35? I have never really tried kiting, but am interested in giiving it a shot. Any information would be nice. I've read the thread, but the AE dot I have only does like 15dmg when moving so it seems like it would take a LONG time killing mobs with such little damage.

[Tewaz]

My name is Tewaz and I am kiting OT atm. Hit me or Tuneyards up in game, and maybe Auff. We three are there lately kiting. Oh and Tanja occasionally. I use DDD, the level 18 dot with a horn out and at 36 with the basic horn it ticks for 26 a tick.

[Arkanjil]

If you need any advice on bardly ways, just shoot me a PM and I can lend some assistance in-game. :)

[jerus]

Overthere is fun, Use Denon's Disruptive Discord with a horn and if you can get good at getting just a little closer Chords of Dissonance. 35' range on DDD and 30' range on CoD, then at lvl 48 you get Selo's Chords of Cessation which is also 30' range so you will want to practice and get good at it if you can.

Ohh and yeah it does take a while to kill a kite, but with the amount of mobs you do you can make up for it by killing more. Kill 10 mobs in 10 mins or kill 1 mob in 1 min, overall same xp, kill 40 in that same 10 mins and you would have to kill 1 ever 15s.

Also I use SoW potions or jboots for kiting as then I don't have to twist selo's giving me more time to relay dots on.

[Tewaz]

I AE kited most of my way from L7-46. Prior to 18, I kept to fairly small kites of 5-15 mobs. Once I got to OT (20-29ish, then again 30-46), my kites got super crazy, often involving 50+ mobs.

When I was <18, I'd take a hit or so, however with the added range on the L18 DoT, I was able to do larger kites, which meant if I did get hit, I died, so I did entire kites without taking a hit. Its way too easy to get 1-rounded when 50 mobs catch up to you.

For most of my EQ (including kiting) play, I use the "behind the back" view. When you start the game, press F9 twice and you'll be zoomed in on the back of your helmet. I then use the camera buttons to position the camera so the bottom clip is slightly below my feet, and when kiting, I set it up so the right side of the screen will JUST barely show my kite group when they are in range of DoT. This is done by adjusting your camera until you see your kite group when they get DoTed and getting a feel for this range. I believe the zoom in/out is insert/delete, while the ctrl+page up/down will tilt the camera up/down. I think I use ctrl+middle mouse and drag to move the camera vertically. If I'm wrong, you can check the keybinding for the camera in the EQ Options menu.

35 is a prime level to AE kite! The Overthere was MADE for bards to kite.

1)On the south and west sides of the zone (OT is split by the canyon in the middle), gather up every cactus (succulent), chicken (cockatrice), and tiger (sabertooth tiger/tigress) that you see. Just run around with selos, sing a single target DoT song on something as you pass by, and continue on to the next target.
2) After you've gathered up so much stuff that you are spending more time looking for targets than finding targets, you probably have a nice large train behind you. Now go to your kite spot (I use the green area around the "A" on this map of OT (http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/overtheremap.html)), and run big circles until your pack starts arriving. Run in circles to gather your pack, being careful to avoid getting hit by stragglers as they join the pack.
3) Once you have your pack all stacked up in one mob of monsters, then start slowly reducing the radius of your circles, twisting selos and your L18 dot until the pack is getting hit by the DoT. Rinse and repeat for 10min, you'll probably gain a level if you don't die.

With regards to step (3), different bards use different methods. I myself used a keyboard turn method. I would run with numlock on (auto-run) and then tap right turn with my left middle finger (right-turn was mapped to the "D" button), tapping D more often for a tighter circle and less often for a larger diameter circle. I would use my mouse to swap instruments between drum (selos) and horn (DoT) while also using my mouse to swap songs. Hmotzart, on the other hand, uses a different turning method which he explains in his guide that has already been linked. Learn the turning method that works for you and you will be a master kiter in no time.

This is great advice, also just click on Falkun and read every post by him on everything and you will be much wiser and officially "a young doctor".

[Tewaz]

I personally only use DDD in OT since I usually get atleast 1/4 of the mobs resisting. So I go selos>DDD>DDD repeat. It gives you two chances per cycle to land on those effing Cockatrices and Tigers that resist EVERYTHING. Anyways, I find doing this makes the whole pack die faster whereas the DDD and CoD makes the blues die quickly and the higher level stuff die more slowly.

Also, most people don't try CoD if there are tigers, tigresses, and/or Sarnaks in their pack since their range seems to be a tad bit larger than the cacti (cactusi?) and cockatrices.

I personally ONLY pull cacti and cockatrices.

Also use shift + "+" and shift + "-" to adjust your clip plane if you are laggy. (Turn up while pulling and down while kiting.)

[Kraftwerk]

Everything has already been said so I can't add to it, but let me say this... Being nice goes miles. I usually group with others in zone so they can enjoy exp, I got a 45 shaman 1y3b in hour and 15 min other day, he was ecstatic. It helps lessen the bard hate. And like Tewaz said I am rocking OT a lot nowadays ( think I had an 85 mob kite on Wed, it got me 5y1b ish) so do not ever hesitate to send me a tell (Tuneyards is my name) and that offer goes to Bards and non-Bards, I'd love to get you exp in OT!

[Mirakk82]

Okay, since there are a lot of bards here I might as well ask the question I always wanted to ask back in the day.

What is up with Bards and NOT being able to control their mobs when swarm kiting?

I was a necromancer on live, and would kite and reverse kite with absolute control over what I was doing at all times whether it was one mob or multiples. But if I saw a bard swarm kiting I'd have to FD to avoid being steamrolled. This happened relentlessly for years.

Were these bards just being A-holes and deliberately trying to kill me for carving into their xp magin? Or is it really that hard to avoid killing everyone around you while swarm kiting?

[jerus]

Lots of the mobs are pulled with just proximity agro and have very little agro on the bard, so if they have any reason to hate you they may break off their current path and agro on you. Mainly happening when they are kiting the same things, basically you have an Aviak, he has 10 aviak, some of the aviak are only proxi agro on bard they see you killing an aviak, they decide they hate you more.

At least that is how I understand it.

[Poeshoe]

A newb that would kill you in a duel anyday.

/flex

BTW bards are gimped here

what an asshole, who happens to be wrong

[Sloris]

Just kited 66 red con mobs at 29 in OT took over 30mins with all the resists was never hit once and got to level 31 off it. i really dont trust the auto circle thing so many lazy bards out there. skilled strafe running is the best way to AoE kite hands down so get off your butts and stop auto circling.


Remix 31 Bard

[Kevlar]

So you tied up 66 mobs at once for over 30 mins that couldn't respawn for anyone else? In one of the most populated zones on the server?

[Demetrium]

I made a quick video a couple of months ago I think some people may find helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjWLZAqRwh4

Also here's a picture of one of my biggest trains in a spot I don't think many other bards go to:
http://i51.tinypic.com/10hvtjo.jpg

[georgie]

I made a quick video a couple of months ago I think some people may find helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjWLZAqRwh4

Also here's a picture of one of my biggest trains in a spot I don't think many other bards go to:
http://i51.tinypic.com/10hvtjo.jpg

lol now ik the secret spot(chat)

[Demetrium]

lol now ik the secret spot(chat)

I don't really play my bard anymore; it's all yours! It's basically the East wall of Firiona Vie. There's almost an endless supply of Drolvargs but it can be super tricky because there's spiders and caster frogloks that can path through and ruin your day. One time a froglok shaman blinded me while I was kiting about 100 mobs. It was an extremely terrifying 15 seconds of my life.

[falkun]

The hardest part I always had with that spot is that drolvargs have larger hit boxes than most other mobs I kited. It's not that unknown, Its listed in my bard AE leveling guide (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=248109&postcount=8).

[Silent]

A lot of great info in this thread despite the '011 date. Just coming back to bards and swarm kiting this has helped alot. The only thing I found I did different was I get myself hit with heroism/symbol and pop jboots or grab a sow instead of twisting selos. Right now I Pull from top of aviaks and walk most way down training what I can, Then group them up and start with horn lvl 18 dot and lvl 2 dot. Its enough mobs that if I screw up and get stunned, I won't die if i get out of range asap due to hp buffs. Basically gives me a free screw up if I need it. Generally I get no resists anymore, the avocets used to be annoying but usually land within the 2nd or 3rd hit. I find myself twisting into bruscos bellow DD occasionally on some of the higher hp/resisted mobs when I get a fresh double dot land.

All this info in this thread + guide links will help a lot, appreciate all the effort that went into this post.

[Spudsy]

Maybe it goes without saying, but it's way better to be in a place where you just don't screw up. It takes the same time to do a kite no matter how many mobs are in it so the real strength comes when you just have it down and enjoy ridiculous rewards like getting three levels in a single pull in FV in your mid 30s. Also, jboots definitely makes life much much better for bards when kiting deep reds which may take 2 or 3 tries to reapply on (also your circles can be wider, which gives a bit more room for screwing up on the radius.

[Silent]

Getting a couple levels in a single pull now that sounds like fun. I am basically finished with aviaks just letting my friend get in level range of me so he can mooch bard swarm kite exp to lvl up. It literally took maybe a dozen pulls of entire aviak + pathers to get to 28 and I can still come back for avocets with gnolls and more.

[Kodlar]

best video i have found on how to learn how to kite properly, the guy even shows how to set up strafe keys and how to strafe without getting hit (once mastered) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIlfIN8pqZM