please explain the exp hybrid penilty

[flatt]

Can someone explain it like I'm 5?

Here is what I think I know


If I'm a war and I solo I get 100% of x per kill,
If I join a same level druid I gat 50% of x

if I join a same level paladin I get 50% of x-y?

If that is correct, then

what about larger groups? clerics and 1 paladin? 5 paladins? Etc?

[CanadianTSi]

http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mechanics#Race.2FClass_Experience_Penalties

[Estu]

You can think of it this way (while this isn't technically how the game works, it's equivalent): A human shadowknight has a 40% exp penalty, so if they're soloing, it will take them 40% more monsters to level - if a human druid (who has no bonus or penalty) has to kill 100 monsters, then the shadowknight will have to kill 140.

If the druid and the shadowknight group up and are of the same level, then the penalty will be split up between them, so each of them effectively has a 20% penalty. Also, the EXP is split between them, so it will now take them a total of 240 kills (120 each) to level. This doesn't take into account the small 2% EXP bonus for a two-person group, which would reduce the actual number of kills needed by a couple.

If we now have a five-person group where we have four human druids and one human shadowknight, all of the same level, then we have a total of 40% penalty split across 5 people, so each person has an 8% penalty. The EXP is also split across 5 people, and there is now an 8% bonus because it's a group of five. A group of five human shadowknights would mean that each person would have a 40% penalty, just as if they were soloing, but with an 8% bonus for grouping together.

Basically what the mechanics do is they contrive to make everyone in a group level at the same rate. This is why the EXP penalties and bonuses are 'divided up' across the entire group. Similarly, people of different levels will take different shares of EXP: a high-level person grouping with a low-level person (assuming they are close enough together that both get EXP) means the high-level will take a larger share, so they still level at about the same rate (this is muddied a little by hell levels and such, though).

[SCB]

Snip

Unfortunately, this is full of false or misleading information. The Wiki's explanation is much better, and you should rely on that.

XP penalties, in and of themselves, do not affect group xp. A 22 Troll Shadowknight grouped with, say a 25 Ogre Warrior will barely, if at all, affect said warrior's xp gains. The penalty is not "shared" in a traditional sense.

[koros]

The total xp you get per kill is equal to (your total exp ever earned)/(group total xp ever earned).

For each level hybrids take 40% more xp than baseline, monks 20% more, pure casters 10% more, priests are base, warriors are -9%, and rogues -10%. Race xp mods are multiplied with class mods to determine total xp requirement (+20% troll/iksar, +15% ogre, +5% barb, -5% halfling)

For two characters who are the same percentage through the same level you can use this metric to determine the exact share of xp they will take. Since total xp required for a level increases exponentially, you can't use this to estimate 100% how much xp someone has exactly.

Let's use the druid (1.00) and human sk (1.4) example (assuming equal level and equal percentage through level). If they duo, the druid gets 1.00/(1.00 + 1.40) = 1/2.4 = 41.6% of the xp for each kill, while the sk gets 1.4/2.4 = 58.3% of the xp, causing them to level at the same speed.

[Rooj]

Let me ask you folks above what you think will happen:

An Iksar SK and an Iksar Monk are duoing. They're both at 0% into the same level. Will they both level up at the same time?

[Estu]

Unfortunately, this is full of false or misleading information. The Wiki's explanation is much better, and you should rely on that.

XP penalties, in and of themselves, do not affect group xp. A 22 Troll Shadowknight grouped with, say a 25 Ogre Warrior will barely, if at all, affect said warrior's xp gains. The penalty is not "shared" in a traditional sense.

The Wiki's explanation is obviously the correct explanation in how the EXP is actually calculated, but this doesn't mean that my explanation is not functionally equivalent. Your example of the troll SK and the ogre warrior does not contradict what I wrote; I mentioned that level differences will also affect things. Generally in groups, you want to have people around the same level, not around the same EXP total, because level affects when things will con light blue (giving less EXP for everyone) or green (giving no EXP for everyone) and whether you can handle a given mob (how hard it hits you, how likely your spells are to be resisted). So it's useful to think about a 25 troll SK grouping with a 25 ogre warrior, rather than trying to contrive examples where the levels work out to negate EXP penalties.



Since total xp required for a level increases exponentially

This is nitpicking, but it doesn't increase exponentially; it increases cubically. (Well, cubic would be the total EXP including all previous levels, so if it's the EXP just from one level to the next one, it would be quadratic)

[Estu]

Let me ask you folks above what you think will happen:

An Iksar SK and an Iksar Monk are duoing. They're both at 0% into the same level. Will they both level up at the same time?

Yes.

[koros]

This is nitpicking, but it doesn't increase exponentially; it increases cubically. (Well, cubic would be the total EXP including all previous levels, so if it's the EXP just from one level to the next one, it would be quadratic)

If these boards had a +1 feature, I'd give you one.

[Rooj]

I have personally been in the above situation and can tell you that it is not true. When the Iksar Monk leveled, I had around 1.5 yellows left to level.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I should mention that we did not start at 0% though, I believe we were both 3 blues into level but it was the same % either way.

[Dirtnap]

It works extremely simply, I don't know why everyone is pumping out paragraphs to explain it.

The "Penalty" is more experience you have to gain to level.

Level 1 Warrior needs 1000 exp to level to 2.

Level 1 Paladin needs 1400 exp to level to 2.

When grouped, the person who needs more total exp to level up, gains a bigger percentage per kill.

This means whoever is the highest level in a group will usually take the most experience. If they have a "penalty" they will take even more.

EDIT: So ultimately when you are grouping, you want to be the highest level, and have have a "penalty" to get the most experience per kill. If you are the lowest level, and have a "bonus" (Warrior Rogue and Halflings) you actually get a tiny amount of experience.

[Davardo]

Yes.

SK actually levels first.

[Swish]

SK actually levels first.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/TomsMindBlown.gif

[Estu]

OK, well every explanation I've heard and read says that two characters who duo with different EXP penalties should level at the same rate. If that doesn't happen then I have no idea why.

[Sithel1988]

wiki.project1999.org

[koros]

It works extremely simply, I don't know why everyone is pumping out paragraphs to explain it.

The "Penalty" is more experience you have to gain to level.

Level 1 Warrior needs 1000 exp to level to 2.

Level 1 Paladin needs 1400 exp to level to 2.

When grouped, the person who needs more total exp to level up, gains a bigger percentage per kill.

This means whoever is the highest level in a group will usually take the most experience. If they have a "penalty" they will take even more.

EDIT: So ultimately when you are grouping, you want to be the highest level, and have have a "penalty" to get the most experience per kill. If you are the lowest level, and have a "bonus" (Warrior Rogue and Halflings) you actually get a tiny amount of experience.

It's based on total experience earned, as I stated previously. A level 35 war would take a larger percentage of xp than a level 36 war under your scenario.

[koros]

I have personally been in the above situation and can tell you that it is not true. When the Iksar Monk leveled, I had around 1.5 yellows left to level.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I should mention that we did not start at 0% though, I believe we were both 3 blues into level but it was the same % either way.

Were you guys the same level?

[Rooj]

Yes - the more we duoed, the further ahead he got.

[SirAlvarex]

The official explanation states that the percentage of XP is split by the total amount of XP you've gained to level.

I'll take a crack at showing some mathematical examples


So if a level 8 druid has 8,000 XP, and a level 10 SK has 14,000 XP, on a kill of a mob worth 100XP it is dividied up like:

8000+14000 = 22000 total XP in group
Druid is 0.363636363636364 of the share
SK is 0.636363636363636 of the share

If 100 XP is rewarded, add the 2% bonus for being in a group.

102XP total:
102 * .363 = 37.026
102 * .636 = 64.872

So now given two characters of the same level, with a normalized leveling curve of 1,000xp per level:

level 10 druid 10,000xp
level 10 sk 14,000xp

24000 total group XP
Druid is 0.416666666666667 of the share
SK is 0.583333333333333 of the share

Assuming 100xp mob normalized to 102xp for the group:
Druid: 42.432
SK: 59.466

Druid's next level is at 11,000, or 24 kills
SK's next level is at 15,400, or 24 kills

They level at the same rate

Now, lets put that druid halfway through his level.

Druid 10,500
SK 14,000
24,500 total group XP
Druid is 0.428571428571429 share
SK is 0.571428571428571 share

102XP mob:
Druid: 43.656
SK: 58.242
Druid needs 11.45 kills to get 500xp to level
SK needs 24.13 kills to get 1400xp to level.

See how the curve isn't exactly a straight line? By the Druid being halfway through the level at the moment they started grouping together, he started getting "his bigger share" much earlier in the level. That means that he is further ahead of his curve and will level slightly faster than his partner.

If both partners start at the exact same point in the level as eachother (to the infinitismal digit), they will level at the exact same rate.

[SirAlvarex]

If I'm wrong in my mathz or in my understanding of the mechanics, please correct me.

The normalization of XP per kill might be split by the Xp at the *start* of your current level, but not sure. That would make more sense IMO, as otherwise you run into the case I mentioned above where the person further into the level starts to gobble more shares of XP at a non-linear rate.

[koros]

Rooj: I can't figure out a scenario where you having 1.5 yellows left when the monk leveled makes sense mathematically, even if the code was screwy...

The only thing that remotely makes sense is if the monks 20% class or race penalty didn't get applied at all. 1.68 (your required xp) / 1.2 (his class and/or race penalty alone) = 1.4

1.0/.7 (him leveling while you were still 70% of the way through = 1.43

I wonder if there's a bug or some other unknown mechanic going on. If what you said is true something is very screwy.

[Rooj]

I've made an iksar monk named Exptestone. Someone please make an iksar SK and send me a tell - DO NOT turn in the newbie quest scroll for the newbie tunic. We'll group and see if we hit level 2 at the same time. This test may be inaccurate since the values might be too small at this level to make much difference.

[Dirtnap]

Even if the exp was based on how much total exp you have acquired a "penalty" class/race will still take a bigger chunk of the experience because they have had to earn more experience at each level since the start.

This is the way I have seen it work on this server, and I've been here a long time.

[Rooj]

No one sent me a tell the other day, I waited for around 20 minutes but had to leave. I still want to test this but I have had no time lately. Send me a PM with your main name in-game, or someone else can try the test themselves if they'd like.

[webrunner5]

Let me ask you folks above what you think will happen:

An Iksar SK and an Iksar Monk are duoing. They're both at 0% into the same level. Will they both level up at the same time?

No. The Monk has a 44% penalty, SK 68% penalty. So the SK will always be a bit behind.

This page tells what you need. http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Sortable_Race_Class_Matrix

Just try to group with people your own level. If you are a 20 Druid in a Group with 5 level 25 Iksar SK's grab your ass. After 4 hours you might end up being level 19 lol. Just kidding, but not far from it. I have never not invited someone in because of what class, race or gear. What the heck in the long run does it make.

Everyone jumps for joy when a Iksar Monk shows up but they have one of the worse XP penalty's on here and few know about it. But they have great DPS and have great Regen. Just play what class and race you like and the heck with it.

[flatt]

Does this mean the exp penalty is actually a positive by 50? I Mean according to the wiki, u get a larger slice of the pie, to "level at the same speed" which makes me wonder if you made 50 through traditional (groups) means, at some point all those larger slices of pie may overlap or exceed you penalty, no?

[Treefall]

Does this mean the exp penalty is actually a positive by 50? I Mean according to the wiki, u get a larger slice of the pie, to "level at the same speed" which makes me wonder if you made 50 through traditional (groups) means, at some point all those larger slices of pie may overlap or exceed you penalty, no?

That's not how math works.

It's just a ratio man...there's no way it can put them ahead or behind.

[iRFNA]

but if you've got like 3 slivers of a cherry pie but i've got like half of a pumpkin pie the pumpkin pie weighs more but it's smaller around right so the cherry pie is a halfling and th epumpkin pie is me i think one of those huge pumpkin pie pieces would be more filling than the halfling even if the pupmkin pie is asmaller

[kaev]

Does this mean the exp penalty is actually a positive by 50? I Mean according to the wiki, u get a larger slice of the pie, to "level at the same speed" which makes me wonder if you made 50 through traditional (groups) means, at some point all those larger slices of pie may overlap or exceed you penalty, no?

No.

Penalties (and bonuses) apply to the amount of XP you need to gain a level.

In a group, XP is divided based on the amount of XP it took each group member to reach their current level.

So, once you are level 2 or higher, your penalty (bonus) is shared with all group members.

If you have an xp penalty, your group (or you alone if solo) will level slower from the same kills than they would if you were replaced by another character of the same level but with a race/class combo that has a smaller penalty.

It is shitty game design. Penalizing the player by slowing his/her rise to the level cap is stupid and shitty class balance. Penalizing those the player groups with in that fashion is pants-on-head retarded.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, whoever came up with the silly ass penalty formula must have been making some damn good money to buy some serious drugs back then.

At least they drop off when veliious ever comes out.

[Dirtnap]

There used to be an exp split calculator that was floating around the forum for awhile. If you can find it, play around with it and see that penalty classes take more of the split of experience in groups. Thus they will level faster than everyone else in that group.

I have experienced this before: I would be getting less than a percent per kill, and the SK I was grouped with was getting around 1.5% per kill. (He was higher level than my ranger. Thus he was getting a bigger split, and leveling faster than me. If we stuck together long enough, he would out level me.)

[Rooj]

No. The Monk has a 44% penalty, SK 68% penalty. So the SK will always be a bit behind.

But the people on this thread are saying, the EXP is split differently based on the total amount of EXP a character has gained, meaning that the iksar SK would get a higher cut of the EXP thus causing both characters to level at the same time.

[Rooj]

I have experienced this before: I would be getting less than a percent per kill, and the SK I was grouped with was getting around 1.5% per kill.

Yes but the SK also needs more EXP to level because he's higher level. A good example is a KC group I had a few weeks ago. Most of the group was 54-55. But we had a level 49 enchanter, who said they were getting amazing EXP. Their split due to their level was probably very small, but they also needed WAY less EXP to level - if they were getting an "even" split of the EXP, they'd be leveling stupidly fast.

[kaev]

There used to be an exp split calculator that was floating around the forum for awhile. If you can find it, play around with it and see that penalty classes take more of the split of experience in groups. Thus they will level faster than everyone else in that group.

I have experienced this before: I would be getting less than a percent per kill, and the SK I was grouped with was getting around 1.5% per kill. (He was higher level than my ranger. Thus he was getting a bigger split, and leveling faster than me. If we stuck together long enough, he would out level me.)

if he was 1 level past a so-called "hell" level, and you were lower than that level, it can happen. Is not because he was hybrid. Is because, for example, he is 46 and you are 44 and Verant devs could not do simple math. It's just another artifact of the misimplemented level curve.

[Tasslehofp99]

The person with the MOST total Exp points takes the largest cut of the group exp split. Since hybrids require more exp points to achieve each level, they will most usually have more total exp than non-hybrids.

For example if a SK requires 40% more exp to level, they will always have 40% more total exp points than a non-SK of the same level. Therefore if they group with this person, the SK will always be taking more exp.


why does everyone care so much about exp penalty on here? lol just play the fucking game and enjoy your adventures to lvl 60.

[Tasslehofp99]

There used to be an exp split calculator that was floating around the forum for awhile. If you can find it, play around with it and see that penalty classes take more of the split of experience in groups. Thus they will level faster than everyone else in that group.

I have experienced this before: I would be getting less than a percent per kill, and the SK I was grouped with was getting around 1.5% per kill. (He was higher level than my ranger. Thus he was getting a bigger split, and leveling faster than me. If we stuck together long enough, he would out level me.)

No, this is not how it works. The Hybrids DO take more exp, but they don't level faster because they require MORE exp to level.

[Rooj]

It's like I always say: hybrid penalty is the least of your worries in an EXP group. Adding more members, not having enough mobs to kill, bad players or badly geared players affect your exp WAY more than the EXP penalties. I leveled my Iksar SK pretty freaking quick, frankly.

[Dirtnap]

No, this is not how it works. The Hybrids DO take more exp, but they don't level faster because they require MORE exp to level.

Like I said, this is how I have seen it work in game with my own eyes. It's not supposed to work that way, but it does.

It doesn't matter who needs more exp to level, each level needs 100% of the bar to be filled. If one person is getting less than 1% per mob, while someone else is getting more than 1% per mob, the second person will always level faster than the first.

The gap will grow and grow until you are far enough apart that you can't exp on the same mobs anymore.

EDIT: The only way I see the way it is being a postitive is if the highest penalty group member is the lowest level member in the group. That way you get a pretty even split. If the highest level member has a bad penalty, then they can take 30-50% of the split. (I have been in groups where the SK tank was taking 50% per mob, and since I was the lowest level I was getting 4%.)

[Rooj]

How do you know he was taking 50%?

[webrunner5]

But the people on this thread are saying, the EXP is split differently based on the total amount of EXP a character has gained, meaning that the iksar SK would get a higher cut of the EXP thus causing both characters to level at the same time.

I am surely no expert on XP penalty's. But I don't think they level the same.

Lets say a High Elf Cleric and a Iksar SK were in a duo. Both the same level. The Cleric had no penalty and the SK has a 68% penalty. Your telling me that they will level the same. Ok I might say they will share the same XP experience points 50 50 but not level the same. Can't happen. The is what the 68 means. You have to kill 68% more mobs over the Cleric to get to level 60. The amount of mobs extra is a shipot over the long run.

This is why in this game duoing with a friend say 2 or 3 times a week can't work out if one of you is say a Dwarf Warrior with a -10% penalty and a Troll Sk with 68% penalty. By level 20ish the Warrior is level 24 and the SK 19. 30ish Warrior is like 35 SK 27. No XP for the SK anymore and he is getting his ass handed to him on yellow to red mobs and blue to the Warrior. That is why the Hybrid penalty just sucks on here. That is not exact numbers, its just to make a point. But not far off trust me. The ratio should stay the same. In the end the Warrior would be 60 and the SK like 48. Which means the SK has to kill about a million more mobs to get to 60 lol.

The trick on a Hybrid is to always level in high ZeM places and always be the highest person in full groups. You, on paper, get a bigger piece of the pie. Not easy to do day after day though. Or hell, just get power leveled to 60. Lot easier.

[kaev]

wow, people in this thread are even better at :math: than the Verant devs of old

[webrunner5]

wow, people in this thread are even better at :math: than the Verant devs of old

They were all on Drugs like I said. We are all clean and sober on here. :rolleyes:

[SirAlvarex]

Hm, I guess my post was skipped over where I explained the mathematical phenomenon of one group member leveling faster.

Basically, if both classes were at the *exact* same XP totals, normalized for their penalties (so at the very beginning of a level, no extra XP), both classes should level similarly unless rounding comes into play.

Once a character is "further along" in a level, they start eating a bigger piece of the pie. Since the required XP to level is the same no matter what your current totals are, you get kind of a 'jet-fuel' approach to leveling. So two druids of the same level, but one who is one yellow into the level is gaining *more* xp per kill than the other druid.

Since the XP totals aren't shown, even if you have just 10 more XP (basically the XP total of a single kill), you'll already be taking a bigger slice at the beginning. This means they'll outlevel you since they are getting a disproportionate amount of XP for their level when compared to you.

btw here's the original post detailing how XP is divvied up: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24405

[Dirtnap]

How do you know he was taking 50%?

The exp calculator that used the exp formula? I'm sure someone still has it if you want to check it out.

[kaev]

Hm, I guess my post was skipped over where I explained the mathematical phenomenon of one group member leveling faster.

Basically, if both classes were at the *exact* same XP totals, normalized for their penalties (so at the very beginning of a level, no extra XP), both classes should level similarly unless rounding comes into play.

Once a character is "further along" in a level, they start eating a bigger piece of the pie. Since the required XP to level is the same no matter what your current totals are, you get kind of a 'jet-fuel' approach to leveling. So two druids of the same level, but one who is one yellow into the level is gaining *more* xp per kill than the other druid.

Since the XP totals aren't shown, even if you have just 10 more XP (basically the XP total of a single kill), you'll already be taking a bigger slice at the beginning. This means they'll outlevel you since they are getting a disproportionate amount of XP for their level when compared to you.

btw here's the original post detailing how XP is divvied up: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24405

The bolded bit above is (or should be) false. It is possible that they've mis-implemented XP awards as described in the post you quote (which I would point out is not a dev post.) However, since EQ XP awards were pretty well documented, I expect they've done it here just as they did on live. That is, XP is divided based on the XP you needed to achieve your current level, not your current XP total. Certainly I've never noticed XP while grouped progressing faster towards the end of a hell level than it did at the start, which should be quite noticeable if the quoted system were in place.

[SirAlvarex]

The bolded bit above is (or should be) false. It is possible that they've mis-implemented XP awards as described in the post you quote (which I would point out is not a dev post.) However, since EQ XP awards were pretty well documented, I expect they've done it here just as they did on live. That is, XP is divided based on the XP you needed to achieve your current level, not your current XP total. Certainly I've never noticed XP while grouped progressing faster towards the end of a hell level than it did at the start, which should be quite noticeable if the quoted system were in place.

I definitely agree it should work in a way that the XP is split based upon how much XP was require for you to reach your current level as opposed to how much XP you currently have. But if that were the case, we wouldn't run into the situation where people are outleveling eachother when they've basically killed the same amount of mobs.

And the XP progressing faster is just in relation to your group mates. You don't gain flat out more XP, but over time you'll slowly start to accumulate more XP.

I have to think back, but either Dumesh used to be a dev or there is another Dev post confirming what he said. But at some point this question was brought up and a Dev posted how it worked, which went off of total XP gained to point.

Also, if you read the developer letter (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html) for when the XP totals were changed, there it mentions that pre-XP change the XP was split off total experience. Thus two classes of the same level but at different parts of the same level would gain different shares of the total XP.

The amount of XP needed to level tho is so vast that this would only really be visible at lower levels, where the XP gained per mob is so great.

If a developer can correct me, or if my math is just flat out wrong then I'll retract my statement. But it appears that the mechanic I describe is how it is implemented, where shares are determined by Total XP irregardless of current level.

[cs616]

I only read the OP, so not sure if someone already posted this, but...

As I understand the penalty it works like this. Every class/race combo requires a certain amount of exp to progress to the next level depending on their bonus/penalty. So for example, say it takes a character with no penalty 100,000 exp points to level 1-50, a character with a 10% penalty will take 110,000 exp points to do the same 1-50. When these players group, experience is awarded to them proportionally to the total amount of experience they've already earned. So for example, if one character has earned 100,000 exp over the course of their play time, and they group with a character who has earned 150,000; the first player would receive 2/5 of the experience awarded per mob, and the latter would receive 3/5. All those numbers are made up btw, just using them as an example.

What this means is that a character in certain circumstances might get more exp per kill with a lower level hybrid than they might with a higher level non-hybrid.

So using your warrior + druid duo example, no, you and an equal level druid would not receive the same amount of experience unless you both had the same penalties, which I'm not even sure is possible without looking at all the class/race combos available to both classes. You'd likely receive a very similar amount, but unless you both have earned the exact same amount of experience throughout your character's life, which is highly unlikely if you look at the exp required to level, then one of you will be receiving a larger portion of the shared exp.

[xCry0x]

wow, people in this thread are even better at :math: than the Verant devs of old

More like the selective reading level is amazing considering:

The official explanation states that the percentage of XP is split by the total amount of XP you've gained to level.

I'll take a crack at showing some mathematical examples


So if a level 8 druid has 8,000 XP, and a level 10 SK has 14,000 XP, on a kill of a mob worth 100XP it is dividied up like:

8000+14000 = 22000 total XP in group
Druid is 0.363636363636364 of the share
SK is 0.636363636363636 of the share

If 100 XP is rewarded, add the 2% bonus for being in a group.

102XP total:
102 * .363 = 37.026
102 * .636 = 64.872

So now given two characters of the same level, with a normalized leveling curve of 1,000xp per level:

level 10 druid 10,000xp
level 10 sk 14,000xp

24000 total group XP
Druid is 0.416666666666667 of the share
SK is 0.583333333333333 of the share

Assuming 100xp mob normalized to 102xp for the group:
Druid: 42.432
SK: 59.466

Druid's next level is at 11,000, or 24 kills
SK's next level is at 15,400, or 24 kills

They level at the same rate

Now, lets put that druid halfway through his level.

Druid 10,500
SK 14,000
24,500 total group XP
Druid is 0.428571428571429 share
SK is 0.571428571428571 share

102XP mob:
Druid: 43.656
SK: 58.242
Druid needs 11.45 kills to get 500xp to level
SK needs 24.13 kills to get 1400xp to level.

See how the curve isn't exactly a straight line? By the Druid being halfway through the level at the moment they started grouping together, he started getting "his bigger share" much earlier in the level. That means that he is further ahead of his curve and will level slightly faster than his partner.

If both partners start at the exact same point in the level as eachother (to the infinitismal digit), they will level at the exact same rate.


I don't know why it is so mind blowing that it would work this simply. The game was released in 1999, software development wasn't as advanced as it is now, they made the EXP break down simple.

Every char has a "true level" determined by total exp they have gained through their leveling trips. The group exp distribution very simply looks at everyone, adds them all together and then determines your % of the whole to determine your contribution, IE higher level players get more EXP since they are 'helping' lower level players. Simple, easy to code and it does it's job of distributing exp to a group on a more complex level than (Exp from kill)/(# of players in group).

This goes sideways when you take hybrid penalties into consideration but the penalty itself was probably thrown in late in the dev process and the implications of punishing groups as well as the hybrid wasn't thought out/heavily considered. (easy to believe that 2 dif project teams didn't communicate well?)

[SirAlvarex]

I decided to put together a google doc that allows you to edit some XP values to see how the "XP is adjusted by total XP earned to date HERE (https://docs.google.com/a/britecore.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPnPG40mZv9dGZ2LUJ5UkIyMl9ZNGgwMGdkYUQyO VE#gid=0) (copy the google doc to your own to edit the values in B2 and B5 for starting level). H9 is probably the Cell most people care about, which is total XP gained through leveling.

I just made it assume a base leveling curve of 1,000XP per level. Once again if my Mathz are wrong, let me know and I'll fix it.

[xCry0x]

The bolded bit above is (or should be) false. It is possible that they've mis-implemented XP awards as described in the post you quote (which I would point out is not a dev post.) However, since EQ XP awards were pretty well documented, I expect they've done it here just as they did on live. That is, XP is divided based on the XP you needed to achieve your current level, not your current XP total. Certainly I've never noticed XP while grouped progressing faster towards the end of a hell level than it did at the start, which should be quite noticeable if the quoted system were in place.

But wouldn't that only happen under very specific circumstances?

This discussion always makes me want to go "lalalala I don't care" because all I know is when I end up grouping with multiple hybrids the exp always seems to be shit.

Maybe this is because of shared penalty, maybe this is because a warrior tank + a rogue results in shit dying quicker than a sk + a ranger.

My real world experience was in lvl 59 I grouped with 2 sk (1 erudite 1 iksar) + bard + iksar monk + rogue and I got 1%/hr at bar/chef clearing the full spawns.

The next day I was grouped in crypt with war + 2 rogues + shaman + ench and was getting ~4%/hr at a camp that is supposed to be arguably less exp than bar/chef?

Well if the 2 sk, bard & monk were all laying a huge penalty on me then that sure as hell would explain the slowness of a camp generally considered to be the 'best' group exp spot in seb.

[lecompte]

My real world experience was in lvl 59 I grouped with 2 sk (1 erudite 1 iksar) + bard + iksar monk + rogue and I got 1%/hr at bar/chef clearing the full spawns.

That is one nasty group. 40 + 56 + 40 + 36 = 172% xp penalty and you've got two tanks and no haste.

[Rooj]

Well good Lord, you had 2 tanks in the 1st group compared to having another rogue in the 2nd group. What do you expect lol? I would NEVER allow 2 tanks in my group unless it was a warrior (I'm an SK) that we kept berserk with DPS weapon(s) (some of the warrior hate weapons are crappy DPS btw) while I tanked. I don't think people realize how much DPS rogues do lol.

I'll keep my thoughts on ranger (and bard) to myself for once. :)

[Dirtnap]

But wouldn't that only happen under very specific circumstances?

This discussion always makes me want to go "lalalala I don't care" because all I know is when I end up grouping with multiple hybrids the exp always seems to be shit.

Maybe this is because of shared penalty, maybe this is because a warrior tank + a rogue results in shit dying quicker than a sk + a ranger.

My real world experience was in lvl 59 I grouped with 2 sk (1 erudite 1 iksar) + bard + iksar monk + rogue and I got 1%/hr at bar/chef clearing the full spawns.

The next day I was grouped in crypt with war + 2 rogues + shaman + ench and was getting ~4%/hr at a camp that is supposed to be arguably less exp than bar/chef?

Well if the 2 sk, bard & monk were all laying a huge penalty on me then that sure as hell would explain the slowness of a camp generally considered to be the 'best' group exp spot in seb.

Similar leveled penalty characters will always take more of the exp than a non penalty character. Having so many high penalty characters in your group, they were knocking you out of exp entirely. The split was probably something like 19% per kill for everyone else, and you were getting like 5%.