Fulll Group looking for advice

[Verityn]

I just started playing p99 after a little break from eq. I stopped playing right when Kunark came out, but I had easily over a 100 days played on classic content. So after some eq romatizing to my friends I now have a full group to be newbs with once a week. Now I'm brainstorming about how to approach this from what race/classes to where to hunt. I've read pretty much everything about our options, but most of the opions in these forums and guides are meant for solo or small groups.

We would like to focus on dungeons mostly and not so much on kiting or other gimmicks even though we'll have a bard. Since 4 of the 6 people have only played other mmos I think we should start together from level 1 or close. We're pretty much set on starting in Qeynos since I remember the area well and some of us can be barbs or eruds and not just humans if we started in Freeport. I know we could probably pick any race and find a tp, but I just want to avoid the hassle and I want to get things going soon. I'm curious to hear any suggestions though.

As for classes here's what I've come up with so far and I think the first 3 are set in stone now, the bard is definitely staying.
Human Paladin (me, might as well pick this for a tank)
Human Bard (the other experienced player)
Human Cleric (my girlfriend the heal bot)
Human Magician
Human Rogue or barb rogue
Human Druid or barb shaman
I think it might not matter too much with other 3 classes if we have a pally, cleric and bard.

So yeah I'm basically looking to hear pretty much any serious opinion on organizing a full permagroup.

[Wotsirb401]

I would say if you want to stick with this dynamic, go with barb shaman, barb rogue on the last 2. you can all solo until respective level of 8 or so then group up in Blackburrow and easily get to 16+, from there you could all head to unrest and even stay there until your 30's if you are in the basement. From there you could travel to lower guk until your 40's, head to City of Mist and get into your 50's, then you have KC, Seb, Howling Stone and Chardok

[xexbis0]

You'll want someone that can port. You'll want someone to be an enchanter because they are godly. Grab a rogue (lockpicking is convenient) or monk for other melee DPS.

I would say fill the rest out with Druid/Enchanter/Rogue personally.

[Wotsirb401]

Yeah add a human monk rather than mag

[Gadwen]

Freeport is really your best bet for a starting area, the only race that will have trouble reaching it are barbs/erudites. but it gives you more options for races and some of the better options tbh. Easy to get to for DEs, gnomes, high elves, wood elves, dwarves...not too difficult for careful ogres and trolls either. A careful iksar can also make it to OT easily and probably bum a port or get on the boat to oasis. It's also the central hub of activity on the server with EC right there for you.

[Estu]

First, don't let your starting location determine what you roll. It's super-easy to find ports as a newbie - just do a "/who all dru (or wiz) 39 60" and ask nicely. The only exception is that iksars are kind of a pain to deal with because of faction and Cabilis being far away from port locations. A half-hour spent getting a character from Faydwer to Qeynos (or whatever) is nothing compared to that character's lifetime.

In terms of where to hunt, stay in dungeons your entire career, since you can handle them as a full group and you will get an experience bonus (ZEM). Since you're starting in Qeynos, you can go to Blackburrow from level 4 or so onward, and get a ton of gnoll teeth, which you can hand in in Qeynos. Once Blackburrow gets too low for you (probably around level 15), head to Unrest or Upper Guk, then Mistmoore or Solusek A, then Solusek B or City of Mist, then Karnor's Castle. Obviously there are other options but these are the popular dungeons for a reason.

[SamwiseRed]

war
cleric
chanter
rogue/mage
rogue
druid

keep hybrids out, why? because if your friends arent as dedicated as you they are out of here. i personally dont mind hybrids in groups but the xp penalty might scare away casuals.

edit: you guys are going to need a druid, as full group you arent going to be able to find ports for everyone because you wont all fit. chanter will cover slows/haste so drop sham for druid. druid will also increase dps with damage shield and has group sow/chloro which is pretty damn nice for full groups.

[boudicca]

Think about what you'd like to have available later, as others have mentioned.

You'll probably want a porter: wiz or druid.
Giving the group more mana: bard, necro or enchanter
Haste: bard, shaman or enchanter
Backup healing: shaman or druid

You also may want to consider tracking (ranger), summoning players and food/armor(mage), fd (monk, necro), dps (wiz, rogue, monk), crowd control (enchanter, anyone who can root or offtank), summoning corpses (necro).

Most important though, make sure that whatever you have people play, it's something that they'll enjoy. You don't want someone to play a role that they'll hate, being that it takes so long to level.

[Estu]

dps (wiz)

NOPE

[skacat]

SK would be a better tank. it'll be hard to keep aggro off the rogue and the caster as a pally. and also the cleric once they're healing the caster.

Mage is fine for the caster, but an enchanter would probably be better for CC, which is essential in dungeons. The dru/shm can root, but that's pretty weak CC compared to a mez. Since you have a bard, getting a lot of melee is not a bad idea (haste), but that'll make it even harder for the pally to hold aggro.

I think the shm is a lot stronger for a group than a druid, unless you really want ports. I think you could probably live without them. since it sounds like you'll be playing this group pretty casually once a week.

I'd start everyone in the same city as you suggested to make it easier to get started. Freeport would be better because that'll give you a lot more dungeons close by (befallen, guk, najena), as well as other higher levels around to give the newbs a glance at the lootz. if you'd rather start in qey id think about how to move your party out east eventually, could be a fun run once you're sick of BB.

faydwer is usually more crowded (CB and unrest) and I think you'll be fine in Antonica for awhile.

anyways sounds like fun, good luck to ya.

[lecompte]

If ya'll are only playing once a week, even if it is for one twelve hour stretch, a group with ATLEAST a 90% xp penalty is going to be really slow going and dishearten people who are newish to the game. Agro maybe a problem without a hybrid tank or some decent weapons but it should be workable. Sounds like your friend is set on bard, so I'd keep that and splash in an enchanter; can probably max haste on group at level 20 if the bard song stacks at that level (?) and stack mana regen too. In a group like this, wizard would be a pretty powerful class cause of the stacked mana regen -- should be able to deliver some decent dps and you get your ports.

warrior
bard
enc
clr
rogue
wiz

[Droog007]

I like the idea of starting in Qeynos if you've got a ready-made group. It is very under-utilized because there's no critical mass there... Fall in love with the game [again] in a vacuum. It will make some of the buttholes in the Freeport area easier to ignore.

Definitely recommend SHM and ENC. Ports are convenient, but there's a thriving industry on this server for that.

[Samoht]

humans are such a bland race

for a bard, it's not really going to matter (just make sure he picks rallos zek as his diety)

if you go half-elf/high elf for your paladin, you could have access to natures defender (http://wiki.project1999.org/Natures_Defender) after velius is released. dorf has best stats, and small races have very nice cultural, but so do high elfs.

for rogue, barb has best stats, followed by dorf, but dorf can't wear things like tree weave (http://wiki.project1999.org/Tree_Weave) or hero bracers (http://wiki.project1999.org/Hero_Bracers). don't make a human rogue. don't pick race religions because even with mask you'll be KOS in areas like neriak and overthere (are bristlebane rogues KOS in those places even in illusion?). my rogue on this server is a dwarf. i'm seriously considering remaking him as a barb and paying for PL/buying epic MQ.

if you go with mage, make them either evil (dark elf/innorruuk) or good (high elf/tunare) for the cultural pieces. they're good shit.

same goes for cleric, actually. DE/inny or HE/tunare. only other consideration is bertox (gnome/human) because you can use imbued golden black sapphire earring (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=49801). but compare that to the non-imbued alternative (http://wiki.project1999.org/Golden_Black_Sapphire_Earring).

the druid/barb things have been talked to death, so i really won't comment on that slot, but if you were considering subs, some advice on wars/enc:

for warrior, ogre has best stats and best aggro potential. halflings have best exp modifier and racial sneak will let you use any merchant/bank in the game assuming you can safely access them (rogue/bard/monk have this baked into class). iksar have huge regen boost and some extra AC, but can't use plate armour or any armour with a plate graphic, so they'll be behind until they obtain velius quested armour. iksar are also hated in every city except cabilis. also, always go rallos zek. human RZ cultural can be worn by all races. dwarven enchanted cultural is very nice for races that can equip (gnome, dwarf, halfling) and has no diety requirement. the warrior i have on this server is a halfling of rallos zek so he can wear both and has best exp modifier. i have no regrets, but even with two snack earrings (http://wiki.project1999.org/Sarnak_Earring_of_Station), he's encumbered by just looting a page of velishoul's tome.

for enchanter, they have the same good/evil armour options as mages and clerics, but there's a third side in that they might want to be less KOS in cities because of quests, so it's common for a chanter go forgo decent cultural armour and pick agno for free movement. either way, dump all of your stats into CHA as enchanter, then put any left over points in INT (or possibly AGI if you pick erudite). i have an agno high elf enchanter, but i think i could easily have gone tunare because you end up trashing your VS rep for the sake of EXP anyway, and neriak has the red wine quest you can use to up rep. the cultural pieces are very nice all the way until you get planar for specific slots like arms, legs, boots, and gloves.

[Frieza_Prexus]

It sounds like your group is going to be in the low levels for quite a while, so I'd recommend convenience over high end utility. For example, if you're going to be in Sebilis doing Juggs, a shaman would be vastly preferable to a druid. If you're going to spend a lot of time as lowbies a druid would be very comparable, and the ports would be incredibly convenient.

It's great that you have a bard, but I have to agree that an enchanter would make things way easier. Your DPS will go up due to haste, clarity + bard song will be huge, and the CC is self-explanatory.

You'll have some trouble holding aggro as a paladin, but it's doable. As others suggested, you can combine multiple roles into one class. If you went SK, you'd be able to FD pull and tank with great aggro. Since you'll likely be at the lower levels for a while even a ranger would be a viable tank choice. With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

[Samoht]

With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

actually, bard doesn't even get mana song until 32 (http://wiki.project1999.org/Bard#Songs). 20 after velius, tho. so if you're making recommendations for low end, mana song is moot.

[Ephirith]

It sounds like your group is going to be in the low levels for quite a while, so I'd recommend convenience over high end utility. For example, if you're going to be in Sebilis doing Juggs, a shaman would be vastly preferable to a druid. If you're going to spend a lot of time as lowbies a druid would be very comparable, and the ports would be incredibly convenient.

It's great that you have a bard, but I have to agree that an enchanter would make things way easier. Your DPS will go up due to haste, clarity + bard song will be huge, and the CC is self-explanatory.

You'll have some trouble holding aggro as a paladin, but it's doable. As others suggested, you can combine multiple roles into one class. If you went SK, you'd be able to FD pull and tank with great aggro. Since you'll likely be at the lower levels for a while even a ranger would be a viable tank choice. With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

This, +1

Although I don't understand all the people placing paladin agro orders of magnitude below SK's when that hasn't been my experience. Flash of light and disease cloud are in the same ballpark, and that's before stun. I've never seen a capable paladin struggle with agro. If you're going to go with a hybrid, SK or Pal, you've got plenty of things to worry about. Agro isn't one of them.

[Samoht]

Flash of light and disease cloud are in the same ballpark, and that's before stun.

some paladins don't know how to use flash of light, probably resulting in mobs streaking across the entire zone and ending in righteous trains, so they're afraid to use it and stop using it all together.

[falkun]

Why would you have anyone other than the bard pull? FD pulling is completely unnecessary until extremely high levels where bard-lull drops off.

PAL(SK)/BRD/CLER/ENC/DRU/ROG(MAG).
PAL tanks. FOL (+Stun L30+) is more than adequate aggro.
BRD pulls, adds mana song 32+.
CLR heals.
ENC for haste + CC + charm pet.
Try to make use of druid charm as much as possible.
DPS in last slot, ROG or MAG are probably the best bets.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Why would you have anyone other than the bard pull? FD pulling is completely unnecessary until extremely high levels where bard-lull drops off.

That's a really good point; I had forgotten about it.

And I agree that a paladin can do just fine as a tank, so don't let me or anyone else scare you off if that's what your heart is set on. If you get a mage for your DPS slot, he can debuff the mobs to help the enchanter with charming should you decide to charm.

[Stinkum]

i can personally guarantee you the following group will wreck any pve content with ease and require absolutely 0 twinking whatsoever

1. Mage
2. Mage
3. Mage
4. Mage
5. Mage
6. Mage

[Gadwen]

i can personally guarantee you the following group will wreck any pve content with ease and require absolutely 0 twinking whatsoever

1. Mage
2. Mage
3. Mage
4. Mage
5. Mage
6. Mage

I agree, but I would make 6th a chanter.


And to OP, don't let your entire group roll humans. Let them roll whatever they want and then slot yourself in to be useful.

[Verityn]

Thanks guys for the great feedback. I'm going to try to address everything at once instead of specific comments.

I feel a lot less obligated to roll all human in qeynos now and I'm starting to doubt my paladin. I just love BB and the aqueducts but I guess by level 15 we're going to be making the long trek to freeport anyways. Maybe level up in High Pass for a bit. I've always wanted to play a paladin or sk for one and having a full group seems to be a great opportunity to play one with as little pain as possible. The way I figure the math the exp penalty won't be that bad when spread out among each member and with a zone bonus. Perhaps if we shoot for Freeport instead I'll be a human or dark elf shadowknight, qeynos makes it a bit harder to play one. Plus I just don't think I could find fun playing a plain warrior even if I would be more powerful as an Ogre Warrior.

I thought maybe an enchanter and bard might overlap too much but I guess not and my sister, one of the people playing, wanted to be one. As for race it's basically 3 sets of couples so if we do play different races we'll want to do in groups of two or three.

Here's my more varied idea because the more I think about it variety in our races could make it more enjoyable.

Dark Elf SK (Can this guy even tank with[out] twink gear? It couldn't much worse than a human sk...but could it?)
Dark Elf Cleric
Human Enchanter
Human Bard
Wood Elf Druid
Wood Elf Rogue

The last two could probably be debated endlessly with all the choices and I think I'll leave it a bit up to the players. We can live without ports, but I still like druids as back up heals/dps. A shaman could be annoying for these new players since they'll have to travel a bit to get their spells and I'm going to veto ogres/trolls because of how awkward they are in some dungeons.


Any other advice would be greatly appreciated of course.

[Hitpoint]

As long as the bard is good all that looks fine. A lot of the weight is going to fall on him to pull/cc and still slow/haste/mana regen. Paladin is a fine tank, you have dps and cleric. A monk would nice to split, relying on lull isn't the safest of plans. But really they should play whatever class keeps them playing.

Lots of bad advice here though. I don't know what this emphasis is on having a porter. If you're going to be doing dungeons primarily, your #1 concern by far should be safety in a dungeon, not travel time in getting there. You aren't going to be moving dungeons all the time anyway, probably staying in the same place for at least 4-5 levels. I would rather have my whole group run by foot from Erudin than not have a CCer or puller in a HS group. Wipes, CRs, or searching for a rez in an out of the way place, are all 10x worse than spending a few plat on a port or traveling somewhere on foot.

Edit: wrote all this before seeing your last post.

[Stinkum]

just make 6 mages dum dum

[Verityn]

I agree, but I would make 6th a chanter.


And to OP, don't let your entire group roll humans. Let them roll whatever they want and then slot yourself in to be useful.

I'm agreeing with that more, not being all human. I was being too focused on the first 10 levels when they won't matter much. Unless everyone actually wants to be humans and barbs I think we'll skip the western races and just go with any of the other races that can get to freeport easily.

I'm going to stick with being a tank since I'm the only person with experience as one in any mmo and I know the dungeons pretty well even after all these years. Plus like I said before this is a great opportunity to play a hybrid tank since it's pretty rough without a steady group.

[Verityn]

Would a druid be limited in a major way by always being in a dungeon? Enough to make me pick a shaman instead or just add another dps with some utility.

[Samoht]

Human Enchanter

worst possible stats as a chanter. dark elfs start just down the road and can move freely about in freeport if they're agnostic. no benefit whatsoever to starting as human.

Wood Elf Rogue

also worst possible stats as a rogue. at least pick half-elf instead. gnomes and dorfs also start really close by.

[Verityn]

worst possible stats as a chanter. dark elfs start just down the road and can move freely about in freeport if they're agnostic. no benefit whatsoever to starting as human.



also worst possible stats as a rogue. at least pick half-elf instead. gnomes and dorfs also start really close by.

I completely agree but I also believe that it won't destroy our group. The bard is set and his wife wants to be an enchanter. They also don't want to be elves, but maybe I can convince her to be a dark elf. I list woodelf just as an example and I hope something is better is picked.

[diplo]

I agree, but I would make 6th a chanter.


And to OP, don't let your entire group roll humans. Let them roll whatever they want and then slot yourself in to be useful.

5 gnome magicians and 1 gnome enc would be ill, especially if they all wore the same robe.

[Elamder]

A group of four friends came back a couple months ago, and we did our best to have the core roles filled and add in others as necessary. So we picked:

Cleric
Monk
Bard
Warrior

Those four have been able to get into their mid 40s without any trouble. We have added a semi-regular enchanter and grab a random dps for our 6th or just stay at 5. As long as you have the core EQ roles covered (tank, heals, cc, and dps) you will be good. We could debate our core 4 classes for days on end, but it has worked nicely! We also started in Qeynos too, to take advantage of Blackburrow and the gnoll fangs.

Good luck!

[Frieza_Prexus]

When you're dirt poor, stats can make a big difference for an enchanter. If you plan on charming, I'd suggest you max your cha with a high elf or whatever race has the second highest (gnome?)

Human enchanter's don't really have much advantage. Enchanter race really depends on what you plan on doing. For example, I went with an erudite with 25 into cha and 5 into sta because I planned on raiding and I wanted the +5 MR. But a high elf would have had an easier time charming while leveling up due to a much higher cha.

[Samoht]

If you plan on charming, I'd suggest you max your cha with a high elf or whatever race has the second highest (gnome?)

believe it or not, it's humans. humans also have the highest stam. unfortunately, the trade off is abysmally low int (90 if you max cha and put the rest in int, 85 if you put the dump in stam).

[Frieza_Prexus]

believe it or not, it's humans. humans also have the highest stam. unfortunately, the trade off is abysmally low int (90 if you max cha and put the rest in int, 85 if you put the dump in stam).

Ok yeah, you're right. Wow, humans suck hah.

http://i.imgur.com/t4Vq8g9.png

After looking at it, high elves have +10 cha, which IRRC, works out to an effective -1MR to a mob when charming. Ex: 250 cha is an effective -25 to a mob's effective MR during a charm. 230 cha = -23, etc. (Splorf come halp us). Erudites clearly win in the INT department, and they're 15 points ahead in INT from high elves, and they pack 5 more STA, but they're down 5 agi and 10 cha from high elves for a relative wash on the stats. On the Agi, you'll take a penalty to AC until you get above 75. That won't be too hard to overcome.

For leveling purposes your INT won't be maxed so I'd think erudite wins for those rare situations you have to pull from the bottom of your manapool, but high elves also have a good case to be made due to the high cha. I also like the extra MR from erudites, and I'm convinced it kept me alive once or twice when I would have otherwise AE mez'd myself.

[falkun]

@Hitpoint: Bard lull isn't CHA based the way other lulls are, they don't resist anywhere near as much as other classes. That makes them ideal pullers until the high 50s when lull really drops off against Juggs and Ilis' and HS S/E. It's always a bit limited by level (trying on whites+ drops the success rate, but its less of a burden than it is for even high CHA enchanters), but any bard worth their salt will be the best puller you've ever seen for 95% of grouping.

@Xasten: Humans have 2nd highest base CHA for ENCs, and the highest STA:
http://wiki.project1999.org/images/Enchanter-stats.png
They just pay for this with low INT. Since mana regen > total mana 90% of the time, I'd rather have the higher base CHA. Humans do not receive hide like DEs, but they make good enchanters none-the-less.

[Samoht]

erudites more vulnerable to disease

verant trying to keep the brother down since 1999

[Thulack]

Just a FYI if you plan on only doing your group once a week it's gonna take you like a month atleast to get to 15 as a group.

[RevengeofGio]

NOPE

Hey now.... wizards are ok in groups... mostly for the "kill it with fire!"

[Dalven]

I'm part of a weekly full group we set up a wee while back - we started out the grouping at level 9. You'll typically find each member gaining 2 or 3 levles in a 4 or 5 hour session and this will start dropping off in the mid teens. We've found that twice a week keeps the levelling at a decent clip.

We went with sk, monk, rogue, enc, shammy and cle.

If you guys want a forum to coordinate on I've got a basic one that we use - pm if you'd like board space on that.

[Vaildez]

Screw ports.. Start your characters around Qeynos and you won't need to go anywhere till 16 or so with Blackburrow/Gnoll Teeth Turn ins... You will level very fast there.

Human Paladin/Erudite SK
Erudite Cleric
Half Elf Bard/Human Monk
Erudite Enchanter
Barbarian Shaman
Barbarian Rogue

[Verityn]

When you play a race that sucks for a particular class at least you get the added benefit of being unique. Back in the day I was a half elf druid for example and I never once saw another one.

When it comes to the bard or enchanter I think we're locked in with humans. I believe it's an anatomical thing for my sister because even in WoW on horde she played a female troll and orc which are probably the most human like horde races especially as female.

After all this advice I just need to debate if qeynos is really worth narrowing our race selection. And if you we don't roll in qeynos I might be a dark elf sk or human sk instead. Paladin and sk seem fairly even in their own ways and both I know are more fun than a warrior. I also figure that if I'm not going to be a large race then a non-large hybrid seems to be more powerful than a non-large warrior.

Overthinking all of this is probably the most fun I'll have with this group =).

[Verityn]

Just a FYI if you plan on only doing your group once a week it's gonna take you like a month atleast to get to 15 as a group.

That will balance out with the fact that when we all log in we'll have a full group of course and we'll probably be parked right at the exp spot. At least we won't waste time.

[Verityn]

I'm part of a weekly full group we set up a wee while back - we started out the grouping at level 9. You'll typically find each member gaining 2 or 3 levles in a 4 or 5 hour session and this will start dropping off in the mid teens. We've found that twice a week keeps the levelling at a decent clip.

We went with sk, monk, rogue, enc, shammy and cle.

If you guys want a forum to coordinate on I've got a basic one that we use - pm if you'd like board space on that.

Hey, you're definitely the guy to talk to about this. It's nice to know of an example group that works so I'm curious to know your chosen races, where you started if mostly human and what it was like from level 9 to 30 for example. Thank you.

[Nlaar]

Dark Elf SK (Can this guy even tank with[out] twink gear? It couldn't much worse than a human sk...but could it?)
Dark Elf Cleric
Human Enchanter
Human Bard
Wood Elf Druid
Wood Elf Rogue

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated of course.

As the owner of a 60 DE SK who enjoys his character very much let me just say... go ogre.

[Splorf22]

I think its more accurate to say that humans make OK enchanters, as opposed to being horrible at every other int class (sorry Snackies).

I'm actually pretty happy with my gnome enchanter; I just wish I'd gone 25 cha/5int rather than the reverse.

[Verityn]

As the owner of a 60 DE SK who enjoys his character very much let me just say... go ogre.

Haha. But is the human any better and what about in comparison to human paladin? If I'm going to be screwed either way I might as well go for broke with a de sk and actually look cool.

[Vaildez]

Haha. But is the human any better and what about in comparison to human paladin? If I'm going to be screwed either way I might as well go for broke with a de sk and actually look cool.

I don't think you'll notice any diff between DE or Human. Ogre is just superior with high str, Stam, and frontal stun immunity if you can deal with being an ugly fat slob.

[Verityn]

I don't think you'll notice any diff between DE or Human. Ogre is just superior with high str, Stam, and frontal stun immunity if you can deal with being an ugly fat slob.

That's good to know and I hope others agree. I just feel like I'd be happier being a medium size race if I'm going to spend a lot of time in guk and other dungeons with narrow corridors.

[Vaildez]

That's good to know and I hope others agree. I just feel like I'd be happier being a medium size race if I'm going to spend a lot of time in guk and other dungeons with narrow corridors.

Yeah don't let that stop you from making what you like. In the end is not going to make a major difference if you have a group with you. I can never let myself choose one of the large races either...

[Samoht]

That's good to know and I hope others agree. I just feel like I'd be happier being a medium size race if I'm going to spend a lot of time in guk and other dungeons with narrow corridors.

iksar.

[astuce999]

If going to start in Qeynos or around that area, I'd go:

Human SK (tanking, aggro, FD pulls when needed)
Human Cleric (heals, rez and buffs)
Half Elf Bard (pulls, mana song, CC)
Human Enchanter (clarity, charming dps)
Half Elf Druid (ports, evacs, alternative dps)
Barbarian Rogue (dps, lockpicks, corpse recovery)

This group can do everything, and can go anywhere.
I would also strongly suggest that since you have a full group, to try different dungeons instead of the mainstream overcrowded zones. There is no one-groupable content that is out of your reach with this group!

'stuce

[Verityn]

If going to start in Qeynos or around that area, I'd go:

Human SK (tanking, aggro, FD pulls when needed)
Human Cleric (heals, rez and buffs)
Half Elf Bard (pulls, mana song, CC)
Human Enchanter (clarity, charming dps)
Half Elf Druid (ports, evacs, alternative dps)
Barbarian Rogue (dps, lockpicks, corpse recovery)

This group can do everything, and can go anywhere.
I would also strongly suggest that since you have a full group, to try different dungeons instead of the mainstream overcrowded zones. There is no one-groupable content that is out of your reach with this group!

'stuce

This could easily be what our group ends up being and I do want to do some out of the way places like the Kunark dungeons that I never did. Places like Unrest, Befallen and lguk may be avoided if it's as crowded as I hear. I bet Najena and SolA are empty as always so we'll shoot for those.

[Issues]

best fg?

clr
war
enc
rog
rog
rog

[Dalven]

Hey, you're definitely the guy to talk to about this. It's nice to know of an example group that works so I'm curious to know your chosen races, where you started if mostly human and what it was like from level 9 to 30 for example. Thank you.

We have the luxury of having a couple of players with level 60s as well as a pocket druid to help us out so we just rolled whatever races we pleased. I do know our SK wishes he made an ogre every time he gets stunned. We're currently level 17 or thereabouts after 4 sessions or so but now that we have our schedule down we'll be making quicker progress.

If you are doing this with RL friends the beginning process might be a bit quicker as we've taken a bit of time to get to know each other and get a set couple of nights a week going but its definitely been a blast so far.

[Ephirith]

If you're starting over new and you have control over six people, make a pet/caster group.

Do like

2 enchanters
2 mages
1 druid
1 necromancer

all dark elf except the druid, who is halfling. Rivervale -> Neriak is a short run.

BAM steamroll all content to 60. Ratio of enchanters:mages:necros doesn't really matter as long as there is at least 1 chanter, and you never have to worry about undergeared melees keeping you down.

Can replace something with a cleric for better functionality if you ever make it 45+, and better control of charm breaks.

[Dweed]

If you guys go the Freeport route and you are unsure about the dark elf/human hybrids, be sure to consider Dwarf pally. Solid stats, small size for dungeons, Dwarf racial armor is awesome, and of course the Dwarf jump is OP.

[thufir]

If ya'll are only playing once a week, even if it is for one twelve hour stretch, a group with ATLEAST a 90% xp penalty is going to be really slow going and dishearten people who are newish to the game.

Think the exact opposite here. Only people who have had a taste of going through the game without grouping with hybrids will even have a chance of noticing. In a full group the penalty is already dilute, and will be unnoticeable to newbies who have never known anything else anyway.

Being a warrior will also be demoralizing for a newbie party because of aggro control issues for multiple levels, especially untwinked. SK is easiest aggro because Disease Cloud is cheating, but Pal is fine too imo. SK also gives you the option of FD pulls later on to alleviate burden on bard/enc but I assume you prefer Paladins because you listed one.

Bard can be an acceptable substitute for an enchanter, but you will still miss one during downtime. Lack of clarity will hurt until 32 when the bards get clarity song.

Sticking as close as possible to your original setup, which I presume is there because that is the personal preference of the players involved, you get:

Human Paladin
Human Bard
Human Cleric
Human Wizard (instead of Magician - comparable dps, similar style, but comes with ports)
Barbarian Rogue
Barbarian Shaman

Easy for the barbs to join you Qeynos if they want, and around lvl 5ish you can start doing your full group in BB and do dungeons from there on out.

You could also let the wizard stay a magician, and turn the barb shaman into a human druid, but imo less good. Druids lose a lot of utility at higher levels. If you plan on sticking this out, the Shaman will get better along the same kind of curve where the Druid gets worse and let you do cooler things in harder dungeons.

That's good to know and I hope others agree. I just feel like I'd be happier being a medium size race if I'm going to spend a lot of time in guk and other dungeons with narrow corridors.

Yes, +1 for ogre sk, but I am biased. If your setup has a Shaman, you will never notice being huge. Shrink ftw. The immunity to frontal bash-stun + the slam is really too good to pass up. I spend as much of my time in dungeons as is ogrely possible, fwiw.

I noticed later on in the thread that you are opening yourself up to the possibility of a more Eastern Antonican style of setup, so...

Ogre Shadowknight
Ogre Shaman
Doesn't matter Enchanter
Doesn't matter Cleric
Doesn't matter Wizard
Doesn't matter your choice of Rogue, Monk, or Bard

... would be more my personal preference. That covers all your bases by being effective both early and late without too much in the way of xp penalties or boredom. Rogues do amazing dps, and monks are great pullers with excellent dps, but a good bard adds a lot of utility and can really pull your fat out of the fire in a potentially disastrous situation, in a way an untwinked rogue or monk will probably not be able to.

I am sticking with the wizard for ports because long walks or a lot of port begging are really bad for people who might not have a ton of time to play. You already have two healers so a druid seems mostly superfluous, and the wizard's mana issues will be alleviated by constant access to clarity. If you really don't care about half hour boat rides or long cross country runs, many other classes are fine here as well - magician, whichever of rogue/bard/monk you didn't take for slot 6, maybe a ranger if you are excited about the possibility of an offtank w/ dps, etc.

[Cords]

Go Half Elf Bard you can choose to spawn in qeynos as a half elf. You have better stats then a Human, and I think plate armor looks better on a Half-elf then a Human :P

[Pyrion]

In a regular group a wizard will always be less valuable than a druid. Wizard can do 4 things: DD, Port and root and snare.
Druid can do all the above things + heal, charm, damage shield, regen, buff. Druid DD is only a bit worse then wizard DD for mana efficiency, more than made up with better utility and damage shields and almost unresistable dots for the really tough targets.

Wizards really need to be buffed. There is a reason why there are so few of them.

[webrunner5]

The worse part of being a Shaman is getting the damn spells. Barb and Ogre both suck going to go get them if you are poor. If you are rich you can buy like 3 levels at a time of spells. I would just stay with a Cleric Druid combo. Having a porter/evacer is a godsend higher up. :D And a Druid in Outdoor zones is Golden.

Having both a Bard and a Enchanter in a group I think is not good. Same type of spell line except Bard heal song. Better to pick up a full time DPS. Hint, Human Monk. :rolleyes:

[Samoht]

Half Elf Druid (ports, evacs, alternative dps)

halfling or gtfo.

[thufir]

In a regular group a wizard will always be less valuable than a druid. Wizard can do 4 things: DD, Port and root and snare.
Druid can do all the above things + heal, charm, damage shield, regen, buff. Druid DD is only a bit worse then wizard DD for mana efficiency, more than made up with better utility and damage shields and almost unresistable dots for the really tough targets.

Wizards really need to be buffed. There is a reason why there are so few of them.

In indoor dungeons (like what OP is proposing his group spend most its time in) the druid's utility is significantly lessened, and these all become less true as the group advances in levels and most of what a druid can do is overshadowed by what the other classes do better. Wizard nukes are really face-meltingly good as you advance, and they get stuns and spell interrupts. I would generally rather have a wizard than a druid in a setup where I already had 2 healers.

If you don't take the shaman, sure, do the druid... but why not take the shaman?

[Estu]

In indoor dungeons (like what OP is proposing his group spend most its time in) the druid's utility is significantly lessened, and these all become less true as the group advances in levels and most of what a druid can do is overshadowed by what the other classes do better. Wizard nukes are really face-meltingly good as you advance, and they get stuns and spell interrupts. I would generally rather have a wizard than a druid in a setup where I already had 2 healers.

If you don't take the shaman, sure, do the druid... but why not take the shaman?

Wizard nukes are face-meltingly useless in groups, because your sustained DPS is beaten out by everyone that can contribute any other kind of DPS. Stuns can be useful but plenty of other classes have the ability to stun/interrupt and actually contribute something else to the group as well. Wizards are great in raids and AE groups and they're OK soloers. They are terrible in regular EXP groups.

[Wudan]

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Rogue
Monk
Wizard

[thufir]

Wizard nukes are face-meltingly useless in groups, because your sustained DPS is beaten out by everyone that can contribute any other kind of DPS. Stuns can be useful but plenty of other classes have the ability to stun/interrupt and actually contribute something else to the group as well. Wizards are great in raids and AE groups and they're OK soloers. They are terrible in regular EXP groups.

Maybe in a LOIO or OT mindless grind group, sure. I like them in situations where you will be in actual danger in a deep dungeon and are paying attention to other things than your damage-over-time counter. Seeing healing mobs reduced from 30% to 0% with one big blast is handy, for example. And of course they can evac.

But yes, if you are just grinding in the outdoors with all melee mobs, they do not shine. And a lot of people do that. I don't think that's what the OP wants, though.

That having been said a druid is fine there if that is your personal preference. They do a wider variety of things, just less well.

[Estu]

Maybe in a LOIO or OT mindless grind group, sure. I like them in situations where you will be in actual danger in a deep dungeon and are paying attention to other things than your damage-over-time counter. Seeing healing mobs reduced from 30% to 0% with one big blast is handy, for example. And of course they can evac.

But yes, if you are just grinding in the outdoors with all melee mobs, they do not shine. And a lot of people do that. I don't think that's what the OP wants, though.

That having been said a druid is fine there if that is your personal preference. They do a wider variety of things, just less well.

Evac's nice. Healing mobs can be dealt with just fine by other classes that have stuns and interrupts.

[Tiddlywinks]

Play on red. Make having fun and killing other players your source of enjoyment from the game. Don't ever expect to enjoy raiding, even the select few who get to actually see pixel dragons hate their lives for having to hit a track button 24/7 and wake up at 4am in order to slay them. That is the only advice I can offer.

[Verityn]

The further advice and even the debates have been very useful. We talked it over a bit and we're leaning more on the Freeport area though we still haven't decided on the last 2 classes, but we are locked in with SK or Pal, Cleric, Bard, Enchanter so far. We'll make it work with whatever the last 2 people choose (please be a shaman because I'll need the buffs).

So my next issue which will seem small once we hit 20 is WTF do we do until we can just sit in a dungeon for tens of levels? Let us assume we're a couple dark elves and four humans. The dark elves get to level 5 or 6 on their own and we meet up in the commons. What are the options for a full group at levels 5 to 20 since they seem limited and slightly even more so with evil races? What level can we all go to Befallen or unrest (besides BB and CB they appear to be the lowest level dungeons) and expect to have enough doable content to grind exp on?

Once we hit 20 a lot more opens up like MM, lguk, Najena and then CT and Paw at 30.

[falkun]

If you have a bard an enchanter, shaman will be minimally useful. With the four you've picked, your best options are DPS classes (and porter if mobility is important to you).

UGuk is fantastic from L5 until the mid-upper 30s, then lower guk. These two dungeons can take you from 5 to 50+.

[Lojik]

A lot of good advice in this thread. Most,I think, geared toward players who have played before and who will play a fair amount. Some things to consider-
1- You will not be as good at this game as other people. This game takes time to learn. I would not worry to much about sustained dps, as you will pull slowly. Burst Dps,cc, healing is what you want, as you'll pull slowly and probably have bad pulls too. Not dying is important.
2- You will be poor, so avoid gear intensive classes. Particularly melee classes, especially tanks. However, you really should have a tank and paladin is good due to cheaper gear since there are few paladins on the server. Mage is a great dps class that requires no gearing.
3- You will level slowly. It will be painful if you're used to other mmos or if you've never played one. hybrid penalties can make a difference, but mostly play classes you enjoy. The low levels are the most fun imo.
Recommended setup-
cleric... dwarf?
Paladin.. dwarf?
mage...eru
enc...de
monk..hum
necro...de
can put mage again, but included necro for variety. I would not worry about a porter, as that's not until 29 anyway, and if you're playing once a week that will be forever. You'll have good dps, require minimal gearing, have backup falls,cc, monk can off tank, and few hybrid penalties. If you think sow is a big deal you can swap in druid or shaman somewhere.

[falkun]

Bard > druid/shaman for SoW. There is no reason a balanced group cannot exp quickly even if inexperienced. DPS classes are one trick ponies, OP has stated the bard will know what they're doing (so pulls will be better than you anticipate), and the paladin can FOL/stun for solid aggro. Mage and necro are fairly interchangeable, mage will have slightly higher DPS while necro will have more utility, that is a good suggested alternative. The bard is set in stone, the paladin will tank better than an untwinked warrior, cleric can heal and the rest is gravy. The hardest part will be the enchanter learning charming.

[Estu]

In terms of where to go at low levels, you can go to Crushbone or Blackburrow starting at level 5, then Unrest from 12 or so onward.

[Splorf22]

My personal favorite xp group is Enchanter, Shaman, Necromancer, Monk, Paladin, and Rogue.

Defensively the group will have solid HP (Paladin+Shaman buffs). With the necromancer doing most of the healing and the Paladin providing rock solid aggro, the Shaman can concentrate on getting everything slowed ASAP, and the Enchanter can chip in here if needed. Caster mobs are no problem between the Enchanter/Paladin stuns and two hasted pets bashing like crazy. If the shit hits the fan the Paladin and Shaman should be able to keep the enchanter alive as well as a cleric, and if the shit really hits the fan the necro can FD and rez.

Offensively this group should be able to manage two charmed pets pretty well (tash, malo, and 2x mez classes) as long as they avoid Chardok where the Necromancer can't charm anything. With solid Paladin aggro the Rogue can go full blast from the start too. I bet this group can hit 300 dps consistently.

You could flip the Necromancer for a second rogue without losing much damage (and substantially reducing the group's reliance on charm) but I'm starting to appreciate the flexibility that a Necro brings to a group.

[thufir]

The further advice and even the debates have been very useful. We talked it over a bit and we're leaning more on the Freeport area though we still haven't decided on the last 2 classes, but we are locked in with SK or Pal, Cleric, Bard, Enchanter so far. We'll make it work with whatever the last 2 people choose (please be a shaman because I'll need the buffs).

So my next issue which will seem small once we hit 20 is WTF do we do until we can just sit in a dungeon for tens of levels? Let us assume we're a couple dark elves and four humans. The dark elves get to level 5 or 6 on their own and we meet up in the commons. What are the options for a full group at levels 5 to 20 since they seem limited and slightly even more so with evil races? What level can we all go to Befallen or unrest (besides BB and CB they appear to be the lowest level dungeons) and expect to have enough doable content to grind exp on?

Once we hit 20 a lot more opens up like MM, lguk, Najena and then CT and Paw at 30.

Befallen is good from 6 on, although the pulls are tough - but it'll be good practice for your enchanter (and your bard too once he gets 8 and can lull). Most of the first floor is your oyster there, except for maybe skeleton Lrodd. Farm keys for level 2 while you're there.

Upper Guk has a lot of lower level frogs at the entrance, and because you need several people to kill them safely in the level band where they give good xp, they're usually around to be killed. You can probably do this around the same level range as when you would start Befallen (and your evil races will appreciate it).

Once you get to level 12ish you can move your group over to Unrest and do lawn trash, go to the 2nd floor of Befallen (dangerous but doable), or try and go slightly further into Upper Guk (tuk-level frogs will be right up your alley). CB and BB will still be OK for you at this level if you take the tougher camps in those zones. This is also a good level to go to Kurn's Tower if you don't mind the long walk to Kunark.

By 18 or so the better parts of Upper Guk will be opening up to you as well as the house in Unrest and maybe the 3rd floor of Befallen.

And as you have pointed out Crushbone and Blackburrow are good from about level 4 onwards if you have a full group.

Of course if the dungeons don't appeal to you, there's always the standard progression of orc camps, dervishes, and crocodiles throughout the Commonlands, North/South Ro, and the Oasis. Nobody ever kills the orcs in South Ro so that is good hunting in your lower levels. But why do that when you have a full group that will go to the dungeons with you? :)

[Verityn]

Once you get to level 12ish you can move your group over to Unrest and do lawn trash, go to the 2nd floor of Befallen (dangerous but doable), or try and go slightly further into Upper Guk (tuk-level frogs will be right up your alley). CB and BB will still be OK for you at this level if you take the tougher camps in those zones. This is also a good level to go to Kurn's Tower if you don't mind the long walk to Kunark.


Kurn's Tower could be cool since it would be new to even me. Think we could go there at 15 and grind it out until 19/20 before moving on to mm or uguk?

[lecompte]

Hrm, I have never spent much time there except being PLed but it there were a lot of ligh blues and greens at 17... a couple reds tho. I think this zone is one with a large level spectrum, may have to go deep post 17 but spelunking is half the fun.

[thufir]

Kurn's Tower could be cool since it would be new to even me. Think we could go there at 15 and grind it out until 19/20 before moving on to mm or uguk?

By 18 everything but the basement was becoming lb, aside from the occasional charbone. You can move down to the basement at that level though, or even earlier, if you don't mind killing Burynai. They are tough, and you can't ever improve your faction after killing a Burynai Legion member as far as I can tell. But they are good xp. Just be careful because they are packed together and run. Snare is a must.

Some good items drop in Kurn's, like the iksar berserker club and some shield that is very similar to the shiny brass one. Also, Solist's icy wand sells for like 3k as of this writing and has a random chance to drop off of the icebone skeletons.

[skacat]

I think what you can tell from the replies is that there is no right answer to the original question, other than that you were missing some crowd control which needed an ench.

Racial bonuses don't really make enough of a difference to bother with, people whining about a 15 stat point difference are off their rockers. playing with a full group of friends is gonna be awesome.

I don't think you'll have any problem doing the run from Qey to the east side once you're around 10, esp with someone to bind you at each zone line so you don't have to start over if you get ganked, and with a bard for speed.

I agree with the others that the shm is less useful with a bard and ench, they will have slow and haste covered. dru could be more fun for the occasional outdoor hunt, and evac later on, and tracking/ports (especially to complete some quests).

take some screenshots and keep us updated, have fun.