A Bard's Tale

[Dostarr]

For those of you who don't already know, I am Rojas. I am known for my brothers and I's service (though I am the face) and snare pl'n. Anyway, on to the purpose of this post.

Bear with me, I swear there's a point to this.

I just want to talk for a short about bards and the overall p1999 community here in my experience as both a non-bard and a bard. First, I leveled up as a few classes but my first real "main" was a halfling Cleric level 51 that I traded for Rojas. When I was leveling up my cleric I was generally treated warmly; I always found groups, people typically were respectful but you know not everyone is a saint :P. This left me absolutely loving p1999, it was the Everquest community from the days of old (or young in my case as I was 11 at release) nonetheless it was everything I'd missed from EQ with a few more trolls and longer expansion estimations lol.

Once I received my bard, the first thing I noticed was people wanted free pl's, to leech xp while I leveled etc, and because it was new it was fun..it was great being able to finally return part of the kindness they'd shown me while I was leveling my cleric. We remained good friends however once I got busier on Rojas, and had to start turning them down I noticed that despite my efforts to stay in contact many...stopped contacting me and starting giving me the cold shoulder. Well, maybe they are busy right?

Then I started swarming more and getting better in various zones, learning mechanics and everywhere I went, I was treated like complete trash. I have easily spent 10+ hours talking to groups, soloers, quadders, duors, etc in various zones trying to coordinate so that we could best utilize the zone, and minimize zone disruption.

The point I'm getting to primarily is that, everyone treats bards like shit by default. The reason I am writing this post is even I noticed myself doing it earlier because I am sick and tired of being blamed for low hp kiters ripping mobs off everyone in the zone because some noob bard doesn't understand his mechanics...because, they think a snipe invitation means they can follow my swarm around picking mobs off it like it's their own little pull piggybank. I am typically very very sensible, subject to logic and listening to what people have to say without simple-mindedly dismissing it, but honestly with all the bard hate even this bard right here, one of the few who IS being decent and who doesn't screw over the group you spent 2 hours putting together is starting to lose his patience.

This is just a thought, when ya see a cleric ya don't assume automatically they stole yer mob intentionally, next time a bard does it..how bout asking him if he meant to? or if you could have aggro back on your mob. (It is VERY easy to accidentally tag a mob.. npcs load faster than pcs and mob healths dont update til about half a sec before snare goes off)

I guess it really comes down to this..I understand why you dislike bards, but at least until you know its intentional, what can it hurt to give them the benefit of the doubt? If they are a douche you'll know almost immediately. At least that way SOME of the bards might end up nice...I can promise you one thing, bards typically treat you like shit, so you treat them like shit...The same is true for us bards..even if we were tolerant before, if ya treat us like shit long enough, eventually we're just going to treat everyone like shit...cause we all have a point. I'm not at mine yet, and I hope I never hit it...but sincerely, just give it a thought.

-Rojas

P.S. - Soz for wall post, just feel like it's something that needed said, and everyone else just sits around arguing about how non-bards can go to dungeons or bards could group or share blahblahblah...none of that matters...We all just wanna play EQ, the great game we fell in love with over a decade ago with an outstandingly wonderful community where you actually need people to achieve things. Deuces.

[Sollix]

I see where you're coming from.

But the fact that this statement is necessary:

next time a bard does it..how bout asking him if he meant to?

shows that this is an extremely common occurrence. Swarming is conducive to accidentally stealing pulls. Your post almost implies that swarming is the only way for a bard to level. It isn't. Charming, grouping, single target dots - all viable.

It's natural to be a bit pissy with a bard when he/she feels it necessary to use absurd 'classic' game mechanics to engage dozens of mobs at once.

[LiQuid]

My bard's only 23 but for the most part I haven't had any negative run ins yet. I've bumped into some other bards doing the same type of kiting as me and we just kinda waved at each other and split mobs. I had a Mage try and peel a chicken off my pull today and he got a full pack of em on accident (my fault I'm sure I probably prox agro'd a few), and you know, nothing is the end of the world. We were both cool about it and I told him to be careful if he wanted to swipe some mobs from me but that I'd leave mobs up around his area and then we went about our business.

I feel like the people that are going to be rude and give you crap for doing bard stuff are the same type of people that are going to be rude and give you crap about doing anything that might clash with their interests. I've been in groups in say, Unrest where people were absolutely losing their mind over someone PLing in the zone, and it's like, jeez guys chill out they're just playing the game too. Some people just feel like the game should revolve around them and their interests. If you want the entire zone to yourself go play some modern MMO with no actual player interaction, otherwise learn how to be civil and just deal with people not bending over backwards to not get in your way.

[andrew23]

I have a 53 bard and the only time I play him is to raid or run circles. So I am fully aware the "happenings" of kiting. I am going to agree with Rojas on this, kiting is a delicate situation, tons of mobs, tons of different type of mobs, once screw up and your done. In Rojas situation when hes trying to run a business and provide professional and timely PLs its even more important he does not have any mishaps. The one necromancer standing on the side of the zone, pulling single tigers always has to jump in and shout "mind not pulling the whole zone" or "didn't you see me EXPing here!?" This displays two things to me.. first of all they are fully unaware of the mechanics of pulling, and the train of mobs are so far behind I have little to no control over their pathing. Second, that they are upset or angry with me (when infact there are plenty of tigers for everyone) they have to OOC or shout some pointless time wasting remark rather than being mature and sending me a tell.

Because in fact, NO I did not see your pixels standing half way up the zone wall 500m away at selos speed with 900 mobs chasing me... sorry.

I think the angst towards Bards comes from the jealousy at how easy-mode a good bards life can be compared to quad kiting or grouping. Because even though I have been accused of it, and people probably think I do it, and hate me for it. Despite ALLLLLL my efforts time and time again, I have yet to pull EVERY mob in a zone, leaving plenty for your "group".....

[Furinex]

So far the bards I've met that do this are very respectable. They for the most part alert the zone and leave mobs for others. Capi zanderr and Rojas to name a few. The hate is jealousy.

[Flamewraith]

I have nothing against bards (except that I really don't think it's a very useful class in groups) but all I ever see most of the bards here do is complain about how much they get picked on. Sucki it the fuck up, you guys make insane amounts of money PLing and you are the only class that can solo 1-60 in like a week. If my mage could pull that shit off, I wouldn't care if my class was the most hated and scorned class in the world.

[Dostarr]

For sure it IS a common occurrence, even with me who is quite careful...when it does happen I always stop and let them re get aggro though..not that big of a deal. If a bard can't do that, they are just being dicks or the server's being especially laggy. Nowhere did I insinuate that bards HAD to swarm...they don't. In fact I pointed out in my P.S. section that the whole point was NOT related to "who goes where to zone or what not blahblah" It's simply the fact that people treat bards like shit by default and that makes more bard's assholes...even I'm getting fed up with it.. I just dealt with a zone of trolls for two hours while being polite and leaving them plenty of mobs etc; but because some DOUCHEBARD (yes they exist :P) decided to low hp kite and kill half the zone...guess who gets flak because he's also a bard yet had no role in it.

Fact is: people are too lazy and don't really care, all they care is that their mobs are missing and they will lash at whoever they can toss the blame on regardless of truth, or any real evidence whatsoever aside from /who bard.

[Skope]

Some background before this inevitably goes into RnF (and I hope it does):

This dumbass post by him was started after we (I was on bard and a guildie on his) inadvertently trained him in OT. We must've cross aggro'd while pulling and as a result, after getting low hp aggro and getting blindsided mobs that we didn't see coming - that we must've pulled off his own giant train - we died and then he died.

To see his "don't judge bards" plea shortly after he went off on us in /ooc about "wiping the entire zone" (mind you, he was the only one that died and then complained), is so hypocritical that you'd hope it's some sort of comedic satire, if only for his sake.

We logged in and noticed that it was sparse pickins' - he had a huge chunk of the mobs in the zone for his PLing clientele. So as a result we've got to go out further to grab us some mobs and must've cross aggro'd on something. We pulled our mobs to a quiet corner and flat ground, and as soon as he got low hp aggro, we got blindsided by more mobs (what made it worse was our SoW'd Sarnak). After we died, he aggro'd ours too, died and then flipped his shit in /ooc.

So, yes, accidents happen. Sometimes you get social aggro and aren't aware of it, but if you're going to be so understanding in this forum post then it would do you just as good to not be such a giant douchebag in game. Or at least take your meds.

If you're going to PL as a 55 bard in OT, then you should be more understanding that some of us are there to level as quickly as possible and gtfo. Unfortunately, you pull more than half the zone and then have the balls to complain when these 'understandable mistakes' happen to you, yet when they happen to other people it's not a big deal.

I'm glad you died, and I hope you die many more times as well. If you're going to be a giant douchebag in game then you're going to be called out as a giant douchebag on the forums as well.

You're PLing somebody in OT for $$$ and you died. Get over it. It happens and it'll keep happening. If only there were some way to make sure that it would happen only to you then we'd all be far better off for it.

[Stinkum]

Anyone who has been in Overthere lately has seen Rojas taking all the mobs in the zone, training groups, and sniping mobs from Druids who are just trying to quad kite.

All of this to PL people for ridiculous money.. And when they politely ask him to cut it out, he freaks out in OOC like a crazy person.

I don't dislike all Bards, but when I do, they're Rojas-type douchers.

[Skope]

Anyone who has been in Overthere lately has seen Rojas taking all the mobs in the zone, training groups, and sniping mobs from Druids who are just trying to quad kite.

All of this to PL people for ridiculous money.. And when they politely ask him to cut it out, he freaks out in OOC like a crazy person.

I don't dislike all Bards, but when I do, they're Rojas-type douchers.

Training should be allowed specifically for these types of cases. In fact, I reckon that if I did I'd probably get a pat on the back for it from staff and players alike.

[Barkingturtle]

OP is the kind of bard who gives all bards a bad name, imo.

[Gadwen]

I have an idea, if you want to kite...be reasonable, stay in a corner of the zone where people aren't exping.

Being a greedy douche tends to get negative reactions, whether or not you intended to KS someone or snipe their mobs means nothing. You still stole the mob, people are going to get pissed.

[Rezonation]

Thanks for addressing this, Rojas. I understand your point of view. It's still disheartening when you and a friend are trying to XP in a place like Aviaks in South Karana and there are another 20ish people in zone. Then the next thing you see is a Bard running around with 6 or 7 Aviaks chasing him.

Unfortunately, one cannot give every Bard the benefit of the doubt. Some really just don't care if others are trying to XP in the same area.

[t0lkien]

I have nothing against bards (except that I really don't think it's a very useful class in groups) but all I ever see most of the bards here do is complain about how much they get picked on...

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt (why the fudge are you playing classic EQ if you want to be PLed) is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players upset by it need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

[Gadwen]

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt (why the fudge are you playing classic EQ if you want to be PLed) is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players upset by it need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

Unfortunately this concept eludes a lot of players.

[Flamewraith]

Wait... what? Bards shine in groups. That's a core part of their design. Either you or the Bards you've played with are doing it wrong.

Re. the kiting thing, some players are self-entitled douchebags too and jump at the chance to be angry and nasty at anyone. It isn't always related to justice, it's just general surliness. However on the specific instance of OT, I can understand people getting annoyed. The PLing going on there is ridiculous. I spent a lot of time AoE kiting in LOIO and if there was a group I kept away from their area. Heck, often I joined them. It's simple courtesy. I haven't had one nagative /ooc comment yet.

Pulling half the zone to low HP kite or PL some lazy alt is obnoxious IMO and is a broken mechanic and by definition an exploit, and I won't do it. Having said that, honestly, players need to stay away from OT. It's not going to change.

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing :p Now as for a ranger.......

[t0lkien]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing :p Now as for a ranger.......

Don't want to derail this thread, but people did the numbers years ago (many more times than once) and apart from things they bring to the table that can't be easily quantified, just pure DPS increase from having a Bard in your group is almost on a par with a Rogue. That doesn't take into account the utility they bring which has the result of speeding up XP generally, and making a group more solid, and flexible.

Mind you, this wasn't in classic which doesn't have the stacking line of Bard overhaste songs, and I think took into account the Bard epic. Even so, a well played Bard holds their own in a group - so much so SOE started nerfing them later on. It's a busy class to play well though, I'm not gonna lie.

P.S. I can't really comment on the "half-assed" statement because apart from missing the point I think because it all stacks anyway, I do fine as main CC, mana battery, and regen-er, along with haster and slow/snarer when there's no Shaman (and even when there is to cover resists), so don't know what else to say.

[zanderklocke]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing :p Now as for a ranger.......

Two things that no class can surpass bard on. One, bards are 100% necessary on raids for resists because their resist buffs are off the charts high. Two, they are also the fastest class to travel across zones in the game; therefore, they are needed to pull outdoor raid targets (dragons).

I would argue that bards in an exp group can actually pull better than monks in some dungeons, assuming that the bard is skilled.

[zanderklocke]

Oh, I forgot to add. Bards are the best at power leveling in Overthere. BAHAHAHAHA

[Yibz]

Bards are just the worst

[cs616]

Bards are the jack of all trades but master of none. Meaning they aren't GREAT at anything. They do shitty dps, they have shitty regens, and they have half assed mezes and lulls. Having a bard is like adding tape to something not entirely finished, they are fillers for a slot when nothing else is available. Again I have nothing against them, if I'm missing something, and a bard is available, I'd take him over nothing :p Now as for a ranger.......

You sir are woefully misinformed.

[Flamewraith]

It could just be bad luck that I have never been in group with a good bard, but I have NEVER been in a group with a bard where I have said "wow that is a mean fucking bard." Or "I don't think we would have survived that without the bard." The very sad thing is that I HAVE been in a group with a ranger where I HAVE said "Wow that was a mean ass ranger." And I consider rangers to be leagues below bards. As for bards in raids yell fucking yea they are nice in raids, I said grouping, didn't say anything about raids.

[xCry0x]

Druids looking to quad in OT have a right to complain because there are not a ton of other options .. plus I like druids there so I can hammer & get a port quickly.

Everyone else is more or less choosing to group in a zone that bards are known to kite in and then complaining about it. If all the people grouping in OT moved to lguk they would get better exp and have a chance at items dropping.. but hey, lets sit in OT and complain about bards.

[zanderklocke]

As for bards in raids yell fucking yea they are nice in raids, I said grouping, didn't say anything about raids.

Oh whoops, I was looking at your second post in which you talk about our shitty regens, etc. That post doesn't mention anything about groups or raids.

My bad, my bad.

[xCry0x]

It could just be bad luck that I have never been in group with a good bard, but I have NEVER been in a group with a bard where I have said "wow that is a mean fucking bard." Or "I don't think we would have survived that without the bard." The very sad thing is that I HAVE been in a group with a ranger where I HAVE said "Wow that was a mean ass ranger." And I consider rangers to be leagues below bards. As for bards in raids yell fucking yea they are nice in raids, I said grouping, didn't say anything about raids.

Good bards know how to pull, twist multiple songs & cc.

Bad bards sit and sing mana song/catana & sometimes cc... basically a gimp enchanter.

Horrible bards sit and do shitty mele dps while singing haste and then afking with haste up while everyone is afk medding.

[Flamewraith]

Oh whoops, I was looking at your second post in which you talk about our shitty regens, etc. That post doesn't mention anything about groups or raids.

My bad, my bad.

No problem I can see how you would get mixed up, in all I appreciate bards and I'm not saying it's a bad class, but almost anything a bard can do a specialist class can do better. They are a nice back up if a specialist is not available though.

[Flamewraith]

Good bards know how to pull, twist multiple songs & cc.

Bad bards sit and sing mana song/catana & sometimes cc... basically a gimp enchanter.

Horrible bards sit and do shitty mele dps while singing haste and then afking with haste up while everyone is afk medding.

I'm usually stuck with the bad bard.

[Gadwen]

Everyone else is more or less choosing to group in a zone that bards are known to kite in and then complaining about it. If all the people grouping in OT moved to lguk they would get better exp and have a chance at items dropping.. but hey, lets sit in OT and complain about bards.

Wrong, bards are choosing to kite in a zone that people group in.

[zanderklocke]

http://toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bards-tale.jpg

This is me hanging out after killing some dragons and stuff.

Notice the singing steel breastplate, mystic koada`dal greaves, and rubicite boots. One of my cleric buddies loaned me some vambraces too.

[A1551]

A well played bard is ridiculous in groups..and thats coming from an enchanter who does most of the important things they do much better (and MUCH easier omg do I have respect for a well played bard). Anyone saying otherwise probably hasn't grouped with a competent bard, or didn't realize just how much the bard was doing. Which isn't that surprising, its hard as hell (busy, busy,busy) to play well in a group as a bard, and they level so easily solo that you rarely see them leveling in groups..and you end up with level 50 bards who basically did nothing but AE and don't know crap about actually playing their class.

It was rare that I ever got to level with a bard in a dungeon coming up on my enchanter, but they're ridiculous pullers, they're good cc, theyre good dps in many situations (as someone mentioned a good bard is charming the second mob in camp and using it to dps with), they fill in almost any gap your group might have, and they can substantially reduce downtime (that stacks with clarity/regen!). What's not to love?

I don't have the patience for all that twisting while running around chasing mobs, switching weapons/instruments constantly, having to do every job in the group that is otherwise missing, etc -- I really have nothing but the utmost respect for a well-played bard. The reason I personally wish AE kiting didin't work here for bards is I think it would drive a lot more bards into leveling in dungeons and knowing how to actually fight in a dungeon, which would be good for pickup groups everywhere :P

[t0lkien]

The biggest issue with being a Bard is that when something goes wrong and the group wipes, you're left mentally going through your scores of songs and abilities, attempting to configure a combination you could have McGyvered up in a split second that would have saved the day. If I had 100pp for every time I took one for the team mezzing highly resistant mobs that inevitably reduced me to paste, giving everyone else time to zone, I'd have a BoH by now...

P.S. I'm a pretty ordinary puller personally, but here's an interesting legacy post from Thott that gives some insight: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_pulling.php

[Sarius]

You probably haven't grouped with a good bard because most bards pre 50's are too busy swarm kiting. A good bard can easily make a group survive an unsurvivable situation, especially because they are a little more durable than a clothie enchanter

[Flamewraith]

Back on live igrouped with a few bards and my socks were never blown off. A few years ago I tried fippy and most of the bards on Fippy were egotistical dickheads (Tsun Zhu anyone?) and they were sub par in groups. Here on p99 I never really grouped with a bard (not surprising since I've only been grouped for about 11 of my 53 levels) but about a year ago my group died far at the bottom of Dalnir. The guy responsible for our wipe hopped on his lvl 55 planar geared bard t try and get our bodies back. As it turned out, he had never actually grouped or naturally leveled the bard, he had only ever swarm kited. His melee and defense skills were so low, and he was so inexperienced at playing a bard, that he wound up wiping us to four level 25 mobs after a 10 minute fight.

[t0lkien]

Yeah, I think p99 is a different world when it comes to Bards because of the kiting thing. I'm still leveling, but I spend a bunch of levels kiting then grouping to get my skills up. Also, grouping is much more fun really, albeit much slower XP.

p99 is for fun, it's not srs bzns. I don't see the point in rushing to top end. I'm here for the journey, which so far has been very enjoyable.

[Sarius]

People play the game as they will, but the swarming thing has got to stop. Even with the impending exp nerf, bards will still be able to PL. I think that institute the change that will not allow more than 4 mobs to keep agro on a single target at one time and force some of these bards to be a little more social.

[Flamewraith]

People play the game as they will, but the swarming thing has got to stop. Even with the impending exp nerf, bards will still be able to PL. I think that institute the change that will not allow more than 4 mobs to keep agro on a single target at one time and force some of these bards to be a little more social.

Honestly, from reading posts by most of these infamous bards, I don't really think I want to group with any of them. Most of them sound like self entitled jerks. As for swarming, it is semi annoying, but there are tons of other zones to go to.

[webrunner5]

I have been playing on here a long time and I can count on one hand all the really GREAT Bards I have grouped with. I am a mainly a healer class so I know what a good one does and doesn't do. But man a really good bard is a thing to behold.

So I know they are hard as hell to play without Melody. I am not worth a crap on one. Yeah I think kiting on here has ruined a lot of Bards.

[zanderklocke]

I honestly don't know how bards can have the attention span to AE kite solo up to 50. Sure, it's fun when you see a ton of experience on one pull, but the novelty wears off after awhile. Without the AE snare you get at level 54, AE kiting can be pretty darn hard, don't forget lag spike deaths either heh...I'm not sure I could even AE kite anymore without the level 54 AE snare since I really haven't done any AE kiting to level up since like last September or October? Furthermore, my internet connection and iMac bootcamped version of windows likes to lag a fair amount sometimes.

Grouping 50-60 in dungeons was way more fun than any other thing I had done level 50 or below (except maybe Orc 1 in East Commons because that is my favorite camp in the game). You really learn how to play your class when you get into a dungeon situation, and you get to interact with real people. I sucked at first (I wasn't even really sure what CC was when I went to City of Mist for the first time), but I think I can hold my own pretty well now. There is always a chance that a critical resist may screw up a pull and things get dicey, but overall, due to my experience in dungeons 50-60, I know much more about the bard class and what it can do, should do, and most importantly, shouldn't do. ;)

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience grouping with other bards Flamewraith; maybe we could group up in Seb or something and have some fun...I'm only 4% into 60.

[t0lkien]

I'm with you Zander. I love grouping. A good group is what EQ is all about, and it's really fun to play a Bard in that situation. I like being able to kite, it's a good skill to learn. But it's boring and pointless on its own. I'm working hard to get up to the level of the really good dungeons (Seb, KC etc.) because that's where the real fun is.

[Stinkum]

Flamewraith successfully hijacked the fuck out of this thread.

[Flamewraith]

Flamewraith successfully hijacked the fuck out of this thread.

Yeah well the thread was a topic that has been beat to death over this last month. Pretty annoying to see it pop up pretty much from this same guy every other week.

[zanderklocke]

Flamewraith successfully hijacked the fuck out of this thread.

My fault too.

Back on the original point of the thread, I think some people that play this game will come off as jerks, arrogant, disagreeable, and other people won't. However, playing a class that can have a bigger impact on more players, such as a bard AE kiting a ton of mobs, is going to be noticed more often. Not all bards that AE kite are jerks, but some are. Be civil, give people the benefit of the doubt, and if they respond with malice, they probably aren't even worth your time any way. It's a darn computer game, there's already enough real life stress.

I've always felt that playing nice and going with my gut worked the best for me and made the least amount of enemies/greatest amount of friends on the server. Sometimes your goals and activities might interfere with others on the server, and if they do, see if you can work things out. Otherwise, what's the point of playing a game that involves relying on other people...unless you are one of those mentally disturbed people that enjoys making others feel sad for some reason (you probably have some real life issue to sort out).

However, nerfing classes based on a couple unruly players seems a little bit like overkill, even when it wasn't a classic nerf. Send tells to people you have disagreements with, be civil, and if they aren't civil, either ignore them or let others know about them with tangible evidence attached. Things catch up to dishonest or rude players.

:steps off the soapbox

[Dostarr]

The fact you think this is a topic that has been beat to death over the last month shows you didn't get the point of my first post at all. Want me to sum it up for you? You treat bards like shit by default, you'll make em ALL into douchebags instead of just some.

[Flamewraith]

The fact you think this is a topic that has been beat to death over the last month shows you didn't get the point of my first post at all. Want me to sum it up for you? You treat bards like shit by default, you'll make em ALL into douchebags instead of just some.

Yes it is everybody but the bards fault that the bard is treated badly. Let me tell you two things, how you take it is up to you. No character is created hated, you bring it on yourself. Lastly, you are taking an online emulator of an ancient game far too seriously, get over it.

[Barkingturtle]

When I play my bard people treat me with respect if not reverence.

[Halfelfbard]

Fuckin Bards.

[Flamewraith]

Fuckin Bards.

Yeah especially those fucking half elven ones. Bunch of pussies all of em.

[Widan]

The fact you think this is a topic that has been beat to death over the last month shows you didn't get the point of my first post at all. Want me to sum it up for you? You treat bards like shit by default, you'll make em ALL into douchebags instead of just some.

Incase you were wondering people dislike you because of your general demeanor not because of the class you play (you're a dick).

[Dostarr]

lol "you're a dick" solid ad hominem logic as always.. GJ!

[boudicca]

Druids looking to quad in OT have a right to complain because there are not a ton of other options .. plus I like druids there so I can hammer & get a port quickly.

Everyone else is more or less choosing to group in a zone that bards are known to kite in and then complaining about it. If all the people grouping in OT moved to lguk they would get better exp and have a chance at items dropping.. but hey, lets sit in OT and complain about bards.


It wasn't "classic" to have ONE BARD swarm kite the whole Overthere zone during Live. It was the NORM for people to group, for people to solo as well as the quad kiters. They ALL were able to live a hell of alot more harmoniously in a zone where one selfish prick didn't tie up all the mobs, and then take half an hour to do so.

Oh, and then that selfish prick starts up spontaneous monologues in OT ooc, lamenting about oh how EVERYONE HATES him and he's SUCH a martyr and SO FALSELY ACCUSED and he's is just about the NICEST BESTEST person on the whole server!

If you have to start up a defensive, spammy diatribe on OOC (and here) with your propaganda, to try to make people like you, you must have a justifiably horrible rep.

:mad:

[Flamewraith]

Based off of the majority of these posts, it doesn't seem like many people dislike OP because of his class, sounds more like a personality problem.

[boudicca]

Good bards know how to pull, twist multiple songs & cc.

Bad bards sit and sing mana song/catana & sometimes cc... basically a gimp enchanter.

Horrible bards sit and do shitty mele dps while singing haste and then afking with haste up while everyone is afk medding.

Bad players just sit back and get powerlevelled, and never try out challenging groups.

Worse players enable such crappy players by powerlevelling them.

[boudicca]

Honestly, from reading posts by most of these infamous bards, I don't really think I want to group with any of them. Most of them sound like self entitled jerks. As for swarming, it is semi annoying, but there are tons of other zones to go to.

Then I'd graciously invite THEM to go to these other zones. Get out of their comfort zones, and go solo in the guks, in CT, in FV. It was done classically during Live.

[Reguiy]

I'd like to see a mob leash mechanic introduced only in OT. Run 1/4 the way across the zone? Mob resets. Some nice WOW mechanics just for bards. Anyone else down?

[Kope]

If you're going to PL as a 55 bard in OT, then you should be more understanding that some of us are there to level as quickly as possible and gtfo. Unfortunately, you pull more than half the zone and then have the balls to complain when these 'understandable mistakes' happen to you, yet when they happen to other people it's not a big deal.

I'm glad you died, and I hope you die many more times as well. If you're going to be a giant douchebag in game then you're going to be called out as a giant douchebag on the forums as well.

You're PLing somebody in OT for $$$ and you died. Get over it. It happens and it'll keep happening. If only there were some way to make sure that it would happen only to you then we'd all be far better off for it.

Pretty much just going to quote this and say...yea.

I've seen you go off a few times in OOC in OT and it's really not pretty. Your attitude in general is negative, how else would you expect people to treat you? You say it's everyone else being a jerk to bards automatically and that just isn't true.

I have a 59 bard and I have never had one single piece of "bard hate" but that might be because I'm a grouping bard. I tried AoE kiting and just didn't like it. I really enjoy grouping so that's what I do. It's not the only way to play the class but you can't blame other people if you yourself are getting hate when you're spewing it off all the time. Human beings are built on reciprocation: Whatever you put out you get back.

[Widan]

If forums poster "Dostarr" does not have Asperger's I will eat my hat.

[Edame]

So, about a month ago I just logged in and was selling some junk to vendor in at the outpost in Overthere. Out of nowhere a crazy person named Rojas starts sending me tells claiming I was stealing his mobs. I was like 'what?' and then he starts going full retard in OOC calling me a KSer. I run outside and Track him down and I see him with 100s of mobs, stealing every mob in the zone to power level some Iksar Necro named Skeletors. After continuing his public meltdown he proceeded to brag about how he was making 44k tonight.

Beware, if you even log into Overthere or run within 1000 feet of him Rojas will accuse you in OOC of stealing his mobs.

BTW: Dostarr/OP = Rojas

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9578/wiut.jpg

[fuark]

Spent 7 and a half hours at work waiting for someone to make a quality post on the forums, and 30 minutes before I leave Edame delivers.

Thank you, it was worth the wait.

[t0lkien]

So... Rojas' logic was that he had every mob in the zone locked up in his kite, and so you couldn't have gotten your mobs "legally". Seriously? If that's a genuine SS, that's some messed up nonsense right there.

[Flamewraith]

Ouch, any point Rojas worked for in this thread has just been destroyed by undeniable evidence of being a raging asshole. Your butthurt is astounding.

[LiQuid]

Yesterday in OT while I was circling around a lower level AE kite on my bard, Rojas sent me a tell "Hey are you going to be here long?" I didn't reply because I was busy, but the second I got done he is standing over my kite and says something like "Oh so you're ignoring me, fine you want to be a dick we can be dicks." and I'm like "dude, I was in the middle of a kite lol" He proceeded to pull all the mobs on the low level side to PL his Iksar SK client, but only did it once and seemed like he cooled off as I talked to him.

I would have taken some screenshots but I was too busy being over it. My wizard friend that I was with was a lot more upset about it calling him arrogant, etc, but I chalked it up to bards being bards. It did strike me as weird that Rojas was the one to make this thread and try to be the bards' ambassador when he is the only bard to date I've met in game that got nuts over nonsense.

Wish all bards could be as chill as Zanderr. Server would def be a better place IMO.

[Flamewraith]

Wish all bards could be as chill as Zanderr. Server would def be a better place IMO.

Agreed.

[Dostarr]

Your kill had been dead a bit...seeing as how I was invis watching; I had only messaged in an attempt to be respectful. Way to piecemeal and pull out of context things that were said. I obviously am aware that its next to impossible to msg while snaring//swarming. But it had been dead, and didnt come in with "if you wanna be dicks we can be dicks that was after other conversation. I came in with "so not gonna respond" over a minute after your swarm was dead (inb4 loot; they weren't). You then proceeded to talk in a dick-ish tone...whereas before I was gonna just leave, I decided I would in fact pull there as well and we would just have to share hence the "wanna be a dick, lets be dicks" But don't act like I ran up to you and mid swarm said HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY RESPOND NOW OR IMA BE A DOUCHE..seriously, grow up. P.S. this guy rolled a bard because of me, and now that he's gotta compete with the big boys he's makeing half-truths on the forums. Go figure.

[Dostarr]

First let me inform you ignorant ponce's before you use what limited knowledge you actually have about how game mechanics works... Yes that SS is legitimate, I did in fact post that and I remember the guy well.

First...I didnt have every mob in the zone locked up, but I had been there for hours I knew PRECISELY how many people had been pulling and how clear the zone was...I have done this over 200 hours NATURALLY I'm good at gauging how many mobs there are in the zone..In fact, little fun fact between WW/FM corner to Outpost there are roughly 150-160 mobs up when nobody is present at all. I had been pulling for 15-20 minutes which means..I was basically done with my pull. Since I usually kill in <2mm I pretty much pull everything thats not being killed and drop it instantly, leaving just enough mobs to carry the groups over til the next respawn cycle. This guy comes hauling ass past me low hp with at least 80 mobs on him. IT was a feasible impossibility for him to have accumulated that many mobs, WITHOUT taking them off me.

Now as for the education on HOW this happens.. naturally you cant just aoe snare in the middle of a swarm you will die... Say one bard is low hp'n (that douchebag who piecemealed) and you are pulling 5 sarnaks and 5 cacti.. if he accidently socials a sarnak or you both tag the same cacti AKA you are both on the aggro tables, when HE goes low hp every cacti or sarnak you have will rush over to him. This makes it incredibly easy to snag entire swarms from bards, tag a cacti, cock, sarnak, and go below 20% BAM.. whole swarm is yours. I called him out on it and yes I was pissed off, he did it so blatantly, and then had the audacity to claim he hadn't.

[Purdee]

Your kill had been dead a bit...seeing as how I was invis watching; I had only messaged in an attempt to be respectful. Way to piecemeal and pull out of context things that were said. I obviously am aware that its next to impossible to msg while snaring//swarming. But it had been dead, and didnt come in with "if you wanna be dicks we can be dicks that was after other conversation. I came in with "so not gonna respond" over a minute after your swarm was dead (inb4 loot; they weren't). You then proceeded to talk in a dick-ish tone...whereas before I was gonna just leave, I decided I would in fact pull there as well and we would just have to share hence the "wanna be a dick, lets be dicks" But don't act like I ran up to you and mid swarm said HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY RESPOND NOW OR IMA BE A DOUCHE..seriously, grow up. P.S. this guy rolled a bard because of me, and now that he's gotta compete with the big boys he's makeing half-truths on the forums. Go figure.


yeah you sound like a stand up guy! really, I'm going to give two shits about anything you say. :rolleyes:

[Dostarr]

It wasn't "classic" to have ONE BARD swarm kite the whole Overthere zone during Live. It was the NORM for people to group, for people to solo as well as the quad kiters. They ALL were able to live a hell of alot more harmoniously in a zone where one selfish prick didn't tie up all the mobs, and then take half an hour to do so.

Oh, and then that selfish prick starts up spontaneous monologues in OT ooc, lamenting about oh how EVERYONE HATES him and he's SUCH a martyr and SO FALSELY ACCUSED and he's is just about the NICEST BESTEST person on the whole server!

If you have to start up a defensive, spammy diatribe on OOC (and here) with your propaganda, to try to make people like you, you must have a justifiably horrible rep.

:mad:

HAHAHAHAHA, thank you.. this is precisely my point. False assumptions and ignorance combined with a low intelligence produces shitty conclusions... First, bards easily could swarm entire zones in Classic, my bard did.. including the DL bug where you could run em into the KC wall and go afk with aoe dmg on while they ran face first into the wall.. WRONG; second I take AT MOST 5 minutes to kill a swarm and that is ONLY when someone 50-60 physically damages the mobs causing them to run at 30-35%, typically its <2m.. so half an hour WRONG; tying up all the mobs in the zone WRONG. I spend hours talking with groups and quadders insuring they have plenty of mobs during both pull and kill phase and during the "respawn phase" for my swarm.
Next point of facetious bullshit; The only people that "dislike me" are one's like you..and low hp'n bards/bad bards who I consistently bitch at for doing all the things you are complaining about (tying up zone, taking hour to kill) in fact today I spent 2 hours working with a bard to teach him to kill faster so he'd tie up less mobs.

Next point of facetious bullshit; I didnt make this thread because I'm an innocent martyr (I've definitely lost it, take the SS for example, and I've also never hidden that fact I lose my temper; read through my posts) I didnt make this thread to get people to like me, I could give a shit TBH..I have plenty of good friends in all sorts of places :D no concerns there.. I made this post because even I am getting to my wits end with the ignorance and stupid claims people like you are making with absolutely no evidence or even solid logic on an incessant basis.. and it's not just me. Though certainly, I'm one of the few bards who takes any time to even respond to it, hence the publicity. The rest, simply ignore it and continue being douches.

This next part is to prove a point and is not how I actually feel.
Tbh, this thread has pretty much convinced me I should pull the whole zone, why not!? I'm being called out for doing it even when I'm not..so why not screw people and make more plat in the process..either way I get called a douchebard who pulls everything right?
End <---This shit is the line of thought the way you people stupidly treat bards for absolutely no reason (of that particular bard) not in all cases ofc.. sometimes there is a history.

I shouldn't bother wasting the time on these threads to explain anything.. I should just make a shitty piecemeal copypasta and tell people half the story so incite more tribulation for everyone.. GENIUS!!!!

[Dostarr]

yeah you sound like a stand up guy! really, I'm going to give two shits about anything you say. :rolleyes:

It gets old, I'm already getting less and less patient. I am a stand up guy, skype with me sometime. I have yet to meet a person who's taken more than a "/who bard" and a predisposed opinion on all bards, facetiously based, who hasn't liked me lol.

[Dostarr]

And on that note I'm just gonna say, I understand 100% why the bards who've been pl'n a long time just don't give a shit and do pull the whole zone now. I'm sure with time, should this continue with absolutely no sign of a better outcome, I'll be joining them. I said what I came here to say.. I'm out, msg me in game if ya need a PL.

[Gadwen]

And on that note I'm just gonna say, I understand 100% why the bards who've been pl'n a long time just don't give a shit and do pull the whole zone now. I'm sure with time, should this continue with absolutely no sign of a better outcome, I'll be joining them. I said what I came here to say.. I'm out, msg me in game if ya need a PL.

Grats, almost got an entire page of rants. You are really winning hearts and minds here buddy. Keep it up!

[LiQuid]

Your kill had been dead a bit...seeing as how I was invis watching; I had only messaged in an attempt to be respectful. Way to piecemeal and pull out of context things that were said. I obviously am aware that its next to impossible to msg while snaring//swarming. But it had been dead, and didnt come in with "if you wanna be dicks we can be dicks that was after other conversation. I came in with "so not gonna respond" over a minute after your swarm was dead (inb4 loot; they weren't). You then proceeded to talk in a dick-ish tone...whereas before I was gonna just leave, I decided I would in fact pull there as well and we would just have to share hence the "wanna be a dick, lets be dicks" But don't act like I ran up to you and mid swarm said HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY RESPOND NOW OR IMA BE A DOUCHE..seriously, grow up.
When you accused me of ignoring you in /say I was still chasing down runners. I'm sorry that you felt you demanded my immediate attention, but I was busy.
P.S. this guy rolled a bard because of me, and now that he's gotta compete with the big boys he's makeing half-truths on the forums. Go figure.
The amount of standoffishness and arrogance you're displaying here is pretty much confirming every negative thing people are saying about you. You aren't one of the good guys and you really don't deserve to be treated with any kind of respect.

And I didn't roll a bard because of you. Ciscio has been my tunnel mule for over a year. I leveled him to 15 and got him a DE mask and some cool armor and he's just been sitting around unplayed ever since. A month or two ago on my wizard over the course of a week or two I was PL'd by a handful of bards, including you, Musique and Zanderr and when I saw that a friend of mine was playing a wizard I decided to bring him out of retirement and see if my computer was up to the task of doing some AE kites duo with her.

I only play him a few hours a week at most. I'm not on a fast track to 60, I'm not greedy about pulling mobs and usually leave when I see a lot of other bards or soloers/groups leveling in the zones I'm in so I don't see how that can be construed as "competing with the big boys." Any competition you're seeing is of your own design. It sounds to me like you see "lesser" bards than yourself as bad guys here. I defended you in the past, and I will continue to defend bards but as well intentioned as you are, your attitude is toxic.

[Dostarr]

When you accused me of ignoring you in /say I was still chasing down runners. I'm sorry that you felt you demanded my immediate attention, but I was busy.

The amount of standoffishness and arrogance you're displaying here is pretty much confirming every negative thing people are saying about you. You aren't one of the good guys and you really don't deserve to be treated with any kind of respect.

And I didn't roll a bard because of you. Ciscio has been my tunnel mule for over a year. I leveled him to 15 and got him a DE mask and some cool armor and he's just been sitting around unplayed ever since. A month or two ago on my wizard over the course of a week or two I was PL'd by a handful of bards, including you, Musique and Zanderr and when I saw that a friend of mine was playing a wizard I decided to bring him out of retirement and see if my computer was up to the task of doing some AE kites duo with her.

I only play him a few hours a week at most. I'm not on a fast track to 60, I'm not greedy about pulling mobs and usually leave when I see a lot of other bards or soloers/groups leveling in the zones I'm in so I don't see how that can be construed as "competing with the big boys." Any competition you're seeing is of your own design. It sounds to me like you see "lesser" bards than yourself as bad guys here. I defended you in the past, and I will continue to defend bards but as well intentioned as you are, your attitude is toxic.

While it sucks, because you are right about my attitude being toxic, this is the first post on this entire thread that has had ANY logical acuity or sound reasoning. Just wanted to point that out, even though it was negative about me you are right. My attitude has become toxic. It once wasn't toxic on Rojas, not so very long ago. This is what I foresaw happening because of the way people treat bards. Sadly by trying to avoid it happening, it actually sped it up. I suppose it is an inevitability on a server where the playerbase, while often filled with exceptional players//friends ,is now so deluded by the community of the now-present MMO gamer industry.

While not to be confrontational I don't view "lesser" bards as lesser in the first place, they may be more inexperienced that's fine. It's the ones who know they are fucking it up for people and refuse to change their methods.

[Barkingturtle]

This is what I foresaw happening because of the way people treat bards.

It's not bards -- it's you. I'm serious. When I play my bard, people love me more than when I'm on my druid, even. You are the problem. Not other people. Not bard bias. You.

Do this: roll a druid and PL that way. Go to Kurn's and pull all the mobs. See how much people hate druids.

[Dostarr]

Your bard probably isn't in OT or DL.

[Barkingturtle]

Your bard probably isn't in OT or DL.


No no, he has been. I even used to ae kite the Karanas back when this server was classic only. The difference is: I'm not you. When others entered the zone, I accommodated them at the expense of me, because that's what bards do to preserve our collective luster.

You are greedy, and it's obvious. Even with this thread full of people testifying to your toxic, self-entitled attitude you remain in denial. Even this morning you were sitting in the tunnel shouting that you're available to snare pl in OT. Despite all this negative feedback and people telling you to stop, you can't -- because you need that sweet, sweet plat.

[Dostarr]

Yes I was shouting that...I rarely get an opportunity to do traditional pl's outside the new service since we get so many requests. Even today I received 10 requests I had to turn down or told them to "msg me again later" while we were pl'n. I do have a toxic attitude, but I have ALWAYS accommodated people. I have learned a valuable lesson though from all the false claims and BS though.. and that is there is no point in being nice further. I see why every other bard snare pl'r, zanderr excluded, has resorted to just mass pulling the zone, and now there is one more. No more holding back to be decent.

[Dostarr]

No no, he has been. I even used to ae kite the Karanas back when this server was classic only. The difference is: I'm not you. When others entered the zone, I accommodated them at the expense of me, because that's what bards do to preserve our collective luster.

This was my mentality before all the false claims. Though I will admit, that is no longer the case.. GJ everyone.

[Barkingturtle]

So much mental illness on this server.

Godspeed, you brave, martyred bard.

[Dostarr]

It's just sad, yall are like piranha's.. Ya'll claim multiboxing over and over for pages and in game..then a GM shuts you all up. Now using the same facetious ignorant logic as before you are presupposing new conjecture. Does a GM need to correct you every time? Cause I think that's a bit unreasonable.

[Barkingturtle]

If you can get a GM to come in here and definitively state you aren't a huge douche, I'll take it all back.

[Dostarr]

hah, sadly being a huge douche isn't prima facie against the rules; so I doubt I could get that ruling. Multi boxing was though, and everyone said "I" did based on all of....nothing really, and here people are doing the same thing. Even you are claiming that I don't limit my pulls and yield to people in the zone, based on WHAT!? go to OT and ask around, while I'm PL'n every other pull I do a "zone group check" and ask if any areas need more mobs left up; Hell when other bards come in and clear the place out, pulling every mob I'd just made sure to leave near the groups, guess what.. I stopped pulling from that area entirely. You're basing your arguments on some other guy who based his on some other guy who based his on some other guy who made a trollclaim based on ignorance and not understanding something. Talk about mental illness bud. You have 0 facts...yet you're purporting your idea like it's the core of your being. It gets old.

[Dostarr]

P.s. AFAIK every complaint has come from another bard in the zone that was low hp, or taking 50m to kill who I had confronted, as anyone else that was a non bard would have likely for takin all them merbs :P coulda missed one though.

Anyway, I'm out for a bit. Think what ya will; I'll keep doing what I always do, and hopefully you can see for yerself how I am. Here come all the "Like I'd wanna know how you are" comments right? :P

[LiQuid]

The logic of saying "People accuse me of being mean so there's no point even trying to be nice" escapes me. Why not be humble and say you've been a jerk and just strive to be a better person? Your replies in this thread make you sound like a sociopath.

[Widan]

Dostarr how far along the autism spectrum would you say you are?

[Gadwen]

This thread is just sad. There is obviously something wrong with this guy, I thought it was funny at first but now I feel bad for laughing about it. :(

[Dostarr]

"People accuse me of being mean so there's no point even trying to be nice" <---THIS was never said...
What I said was, if I'm going to be called out for doing something bad, whether I do or don't do it..and there's a penalty for not doing it, you might as well do it and reap the profits. Either way you are receiving the negativity from the false claims, might as well reap.

Oh and if I HAD been a jerk I'd have gladly admitted it and moved on, once pointed out. The fact is I HAVEN'T been. Hence why I'm tired of it.

@Gadwen - There is nothing to feel bad for, I have no mental conditions whatsoever.

As a J.D. candidate and exceptionally good individual at logic, I can say the amount of baseless assumptions you guys make is absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, go back to school, use obama funds, get an education. FFS, EQ is great, we all love it...but ya need to be able to cogently function.

[Barkingturtle]

You essentially are confronted with two options when the entire community calls you out for your sociopathic bahavior:

1) Alter said behavior and accept your past actions as dubious.

2) Adopt a persecution complex.


No one is making baseless assumptions. People have either interacted with you in-game or are doing so now on the forums. Your actions and responses are the base for others' assumptions. This is how human interaction works, Sparky.

[Dostarr]

false dichotomy
false premises

the claimed behavior never really occurred, the one instance it did was with the SS; and that had a perfectly legitimate explanation pulled out of context.

It's so amazing how something can become a whole new thing if you just cut pieces out! It's almost like the news. Did you hear senator X say, "I like" "boys" ZOMG!!!!

Anyway I've decided you're not worth the time it takes to type another sentence so, bash, hate enjoy it by yourself.. I'll still be doing what I do, not pulling 100% of the mobs, sharing, making plat (one of the few things ya'll DID get right...I do make bank) and yes, I am a dick to you..cause guess what, you were one to me :D. Try being nice and not making false accusations and ya might get it back!!! It's so amazing how you can claim someone's an asshole, and then because of that they become an asshole thus making it seem like you were actually right..God people are gullible, and stupid!

[Barkingturtle]

Where's the false dichotomy? Where's the false premise? You friend, are experiencing a false reality.

Reality is, everyone here is reacting to what you put out. In-game behavior aside, your posts here are extremely revealing -- and you are not exposed as some high-thinking moral logician -- you are being exposed as a self-centered, self-serving practitioner of denial. I genuinely feel pity for you, because this is only a game -- and yet here you are standing on your head to justify your greed.

Here's an interesting aside: where are your satisfied customers to defend you? Seems to me they might be ashamed of your behavior. Seems to me you should be, too. Shame on you.

[Crawdad]

EQ Bards are one of/the most unique classes in RPG history. Watching this sperglord both in OT and on these boards has harshed my mellow. Loved my Bard on live so much, and was so excited to roll one here. Even though I really only plan to group exp, it does make me bitter that douches like this lower the bar on bard expectations.

Few other classes can have the "Wow!" effect a good bard can have in a group-- Thanks for doing your part in turning Bard into just another no expectation farm/pl class.

[thufir]

No no, he has been. I even used to ae kite the Karanas back when this server was classic only. The difference is: I'm not you. When others entered the zone, I accommodated them at the expense of me, because that's what bards do to preserve our collective luster.

You are greedy, and it's obvious. Even with this thread full of people testifying to your toxic, self-entitled attitude you remain in denial. Even this morning you were sitting in the tunnel shouting that you're available to snare pl in OT. Despite all this negative feedback and people telling you to stop, you can't -- because you need that sweet, sweet plat.

QFT

Never should have started this thread Rojas. I didn't know you before this and now you've soiled your own reputation. Congrats, etc

I wouldn't be doing that JD btw. You'd get innocent people convicted.

As an aside - I played on Live and always loved bards, and always will. The best ones rarely talked because of the constant twisting, but a well played bard is awesome in a group, period. They might be the reason for hybrid XP penalties.

[Wudan]

I used to hate p99 bards too, because they were all lame slackers. Then I grouped with Astuce in Sebilis and my jaw dropped. This was one fuckin solid bard. He made the crawl so smoth and easy, pulling like a superstars, twisting 4 songs, just being crazy good and great addition to the group. I have to say I was impressed and it changed my opinion on bards. Good bard is gold for any group. I made bard alt after that experience, because I realized I need to learn more about the class I hated the most of them all. He is now lvl 18 and super fun to play. I love wielding my BoH + Symphonic Saber combo (he is spoiled lil twink lol) and I really like to group. Have not done much kiting yet, guess I will get into that later.

See ya all in OT lol

[webrunner5]

There is like 10 Bards on the whole server that are worth a crap. And they are awesome. I think Nilbog ought to just delete the rest of them. Pain in the ass. Just give me another Shaman or Rogue in a group. Nobody needs a half ass Bard in a group trust me. :eek: And Swarm kiting has just about ruined some zones on here.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

first of all, if you post a thread titled "A Bard's Tale" I am fairly sure you are mandated to /roleplay "Lights a bowl of Shire leaf" before you actually start in on said tale.

Second of all, nerf bards.

[Dalven]

I used to hate p99 bards too, because they were all lame slackers. Then I grouped with Astuce in Sebilis and my jaw dropped. This was one fuckin solid bard. He made the crawl so smoth and easy, pulling like a superstars, twisting 4 songs, just being crazy good and great addition to the group.

This is how all bards should play. I have too much fun in groups to run around in circles pissing off other players.

[RevengeofGio]

So anyone mind if I create a bard and just train Rojas till he flips out and cuts himself irl?

[cs616]

It could just be bad luck that I have never been in group with a good bard, but I have NEVER been in a group with a bard where I have said "wow that is a mean fucking bard." Or "I don't think we would have survived that without the bard." The very sad thing is that I HAVE been in a group with a ranger where I HAVE said "Wow that was a mean ass ranger." And I consider rangers to be leagues below bards. As for bards in raids yell fucking yea they are nice in raids, I said grouping, didn't say anything about raids.

Yea, I still don't think you really get bards though. Bards might not be the best at anything, although I would argue there are many things they are the best at, however, they can fill the role of sometimes 2 or 3 specialty classes freeing up more room for dps, which can be huge.

In a standard melee based group playing my normal songs my bard provides: 55% haste, 46 Dmg Shield, 83 STR, 55 ATK, 31 HP regen, 13 mana regen, and 9 AC. I would argue those stats are as good if not better than what any other single class can provide. On top of that, a bard can lock down up to 4 mobs indefinitely, charm mobs to CC/dps, has probably the best lull in the game (unless outdoors), has probably the best snare in game, can slow, take hits, etc.

I really don't think there is a class in the game that can do more for a group than a well played bard, especially if the bard has epic. A bard might be slightly worse at doing one specific thing than another class, but the multiple other things that they can be doing at the same time more than outweigh the fact that enchanters for example have slightly better haste, or can mez a couple more mobs.

you get to interact with real people.

Lies, I never had time to interact with people! But for real, I got really good at typing in those few seconds between songs.

[Flamewraith]

I am typically very very sensible, subject to logic and listening to what people have to say without simple-mindedly dismissing it,

So far all you have done is spout out rants at everyone who disagrees with you, and childishly accused everyone else of making you a punk. Truth is you're just a bitch. You ruined your own rep by being a jackass. The only hope for you now is to reroll. Don't be such a cunt this time around.

[zanderklocke]

If you want to see some awesome bards look to any of these (I might have forgotten some and did not include alts or people who did not level the character originally): Fauss, Astuce, Arrisard, Yibz, Ennio, Llaile, Lavarian, Deajay, Voski, Franswa, Halfelf, Retus, Capi, Dalven, Stefen, Giegue, and Culprit.

My mind is going blank for more, but any of these people will show you what a good bard can do in any situation.

[RevengeofGio]

If you want to see some awesome bards look to any of these (I might have forgotten some and did not include alts or people who did not level the character originally): Fauss, Astuce, Arrisard, Yibz, Ennio, Llaile, Lavarian, Deajay, Voski, Franswa, Halfelf, Retus, Capi, Dalven, Stefen, Giegue, and Culprit.

My mind is going blank for more, but any of these people will show you what a good bard can do in any situation.

Dunno if you're going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced. I think it really comes down to small minds thinking that if you're not really good at one thing then you're a wasted group spot.

OP is just a bad person.

[Chronoburn]

TTD.

Need more Rojas.

[Splorf22]

Lies, I never had time to interact with people! But for real, I got really good at typing in those few seconds between songs.

Exactly :D I got tired of chatting in 3 second bursts and working so hard. cs616 is Goodies, right? What's the name of your bard?

I quit Dramor mainly because of this server's prohibition of MacroQuest. I was all set to rewrite the bard UI with some MQ scripts which would dramatically reduce my typing time (as well as perfecting my timing and making me the most effective bard on th server!) but then I figured I'd just get banned for excessive awesomeness/cheating depending on your point of view. Maybe I should talk to Rogean and ask for an exemption, but somehow I doubt he'd go for it.

[Sollix]

It's not bards -- it's you.

[webrunner5]

If you want to see some awesome bards look to any of these (I might have forgotten some and did not include alts or people who did not level the character originally): Fauss, Astuce, Arrisard, Yibz, Ennio, Llaile, Lavarian, Deajay, Voski, Franswa, Halfelf, Retus, Capi, Dalven, Stefen, Giegue, and Culprit.

My mind is going blank for more, but any of these people will show you what a good bard can do in any situation.

Ok you mentioned 17 of them. I will give you credit for that. The rest just delete them like I said. :rolleyes: Pain in the ass.

We have all learned after playing this game for 14 years now the the "Holy Trinity" is still the best way to go. When, and if Velious ever comes out they will be top dog. And a Shaman added and a Rogue is the hot setup. I can't play a Bard worth a crap and 3/4 of the Bards on this server suck also. So as a healer I know what works and not. A Bard is not my top choise for another group member trust me on average.

I would rather have a Wizard in the group. At least they can burn down a mob if they are not AFK and save our ass or evac. Like a lot of Bards singing one song AFK. If I have a Enchanter or a Shaman in a group I will not probably not invite a Bard. Sorry. I have learned a high end Mage is pretty Bad Ass. They can kill a mob faster than the group!!

[Spitty]

I certainly wouldn't trust you, since you've readily admitted to not having a clue how the bard class works.

SHM/BRD/DPS trios are fun as hell. Zero downtime.

In regards to the OP, our current contender for favorite server disruption has some self-awareness and compassion issues he needs to address. This is not an environment for positive development in those areas.

[Stinkum]

thread peaked at around pages 5-9 when Rojas' douche baggery was on full display

[Spitty]

Thanks for your contribution, as always.

[TarukShmaruk]

Ok you mentioned 17 of them. I will give you credit for that. The rest just delete them like I said. :rolleyes: Pain in the ass.

We have all learned after playing this game for 14 years now the the "Holy Trinity" Is still the best way to go. And a Shaman added and a Rogue is the hot setup. I can't play a Bard worth a crap and 3/4 of the Bards on this server suck also. So as a healer I know what works and not. A Bard is not my top choise for another group member trust me on average.

I think you're nuts - I would take a bard any day, in any group, always. A good bard is extremely versatile and the songs are great.

Snare, mez, regen, slow, mana regen, haste, respectable melee damage....

[t0lkien]

As an aside - those of us playing Bards and not pawning ourselves endlessly for PL platt are not playing to be the most powerful; we're playing them because they are awesome fun.

Gasp! What!?

You're not min/maxing a 14 year old game within an inch of its life to gain power in a virtual world on a single private server that had no traction in the real world even when it was the most successful game of its kind? You're playing within a community of (mostly) old friends and like-minded enthusiasts to ENJOY YOURSELF??!!

GTFO....

[tacite]

A+ would lol again

But seriously;

Dostarr, please seek professional help for the tragedy that has afflicted you so strongly. You might not be able to see it from your perspective, but you have severe depression and it is certainly taking a huge toll on your life, that was obvious from even 5 minutes of chatting with you on Permuh before you bought Rojas. When you had me on rageignore, I spoke with your brother while he was playing Rojas, whom I strongly urged to get you professional help. I'm not saying this to be mean, or lower your standing in the community, or to be malicious in any way, I am GENUINELY concerned for your wellbeing and want to see you happy, and I'm hoping the public nature of this post can help get it into your head that you need help. I don't give a fuck if you hate me for this, but for your own sake and the sake of your family, get some professional help.

I'm always here to chat if you need to. Feel better soon, bro.

[Halfelfbard]

I said Holy Trinity in OT, haha and here it is. War/Enc/Cleric base group around that and u'll have 0 problems.

Even with a bard in that situation u can max dps, pull all that good shit, i've taken lvl 40's b4 in KC cuz i knew no shit would hit the fan with me around.

[Dostarr]

I appreciate the sincerity Tacite, and I'm guessing since you spoke to my brother, your discretion on the matter. However, I am not depressed...I am perturbed that effort goes unrewarded because there are lots of bards who do exactly what everyone here, myself included, has been bitching about and it gets old that because I am swarming too I am, by default, tacked onto that list before anyone even knows me. This post has emphasized that point better than anything I could ever say :D.

Inb4, "you're one person, how can everyone else be wrong and you be right"...look around you at the world, people are stupid everything's fucked up. Perhaps it IS the masses. George Carlin said the SAME thing, god rest his soul.

[Dostarr]

I clearly haven't damaged my reputation all that much...since people continue handing me accounts with 100-400k of gear/equips then tossing me 100k plat and saying...hey make me 46. My reputation is solid in that regard, you CAN trust me. People liking my bard? I did care..but ya'll convinced me that point is moot. I never intended on PLAYING Rojas anyway.. I traded for him solely to PL. Why not trade a 51 cleric I can re-level in 15 hours for a bard that can be my money maker. Hell since this post went up I've had to turn down at least 10 requests because we are so booked. So once again your baseless assumptions are incorrect.

[Asap]

Everyone wants to hate Rojas until they have enough plat to hire him.

[Dostarr]

The same dumbasses screaming "zone disrupt, zone disrupt, you pull everything and rip mobs off people" request I do the same thing when they hire me..gotta tell em I don't do that all day. People are so fickle and stupid.

Some people are just joking but, a few have definitely been serious.

[TeaReks]

The same dumbasses screaming "zone disrupt, zone disrupt, you pull everything and rip mobs off people" request I do the same thing when they hire me..gotta tell em I don't do that all day. People are so fickle and stupid.



Welcome to the Human Experience.

[Wudan]

Just couple of points from the top of my head

Imagine what would the servet look like if everyone played it like Rojas. He spends his time in EQ making money (for what ffs? How much money do you need?) not playing the actual game. His style is detrimental to the server and only helps rich guys from the top to lvl more and more alts so they can cockblock more raid content.

How exactly does he lvl other peoples alts without them taking an active role in the process?. Well i will tell you what i think. I do not have any evidence, but my feeling is he boxes them. I saw him lvling one of those alts in kurns and it had boxing written all over it. Let me rephrase it...i saw many suspicious duos where i thought these guys might be boxing, but the feeling was never as strong as when i saw rojas PLing this low lvl char in kurns. If i had to quantify, i would say i was 90% sure.

One thing is his playstyle which creates negative energy and only helps himself and few rich lazy guys, but is not actualy "illegal", other thing would be if he is using ip exemption to box while PLing.

I might be wrong, but i doubt it.

My estimate is he could make around 200k during busy week, maybe even more. Where does all that money go? Is he sponsoring halfling terrorist units that will perform suicide attacks in Neriak?

[anotherone]

Is he sponsoring halfling terrorist units that will perform suicide attacks in Neriak?

gd halflings!

[Vianna]

Don't want to derail this thread, but people did the numbers years ago (many more times than once) and apart from things they bring to the table that can't be easily quantified, just pure DPS increase from having a Bard in your group is almost on a par with a Rogue. That doesn't take into account the utility they bring which has the result of speeding up XP generally, and making a group more solid, and flexible.

Mind you, this wasn't in classic which doesn't have the stacking line of Bard overhaste songs, and I think took into account the Bard epic. Even so, a well played Bard holds their own in a group - so much so SOE started nerfing them later on. It's a busy class to play well though, I'm not gonna lie.

P.S. I can't really comment on the "half-assed" statement because apart from missing the point I think because it all stacks anyway, I do fine as main CC, mana battery, and regen-er, along with haster and slow/snarer when there's no Shaman (and even when there is to cover resists), so don't know what else to say.

Bards are awesome in groups....Stacking mana songs=Less down time=More Pulls..On top of just that good bards can lock down 3 to 4 adds with mez(sometimes more) in emergencies. That isn't getting into the other songs they have at their disposal that helps groups in a big way. I imagine he had experience with quite a few bad bards.

[Trouble]

After like level 8 ae kiting was already a pain in the ass but I did it to level up fast. Dungeon crawling with a bard especially in seb where no one else wants to pull cuz of casters is tons of fun and really makes you bring every tool you have to the workbench if you want to do well and be remembered.

Haste is a solid 45% and with most people having haste items it puts you up there by cap. As far as regen is concerned to whoever posted about it, bards have the best mana regen that extends to other players and in the same song have a health regen that's maybe 2hp less than regrowth if they're playing strings and can still stack other health regen songs on top of it, though I usually don't stop to put on strings unless requested, which isn't often if you're pulling singles to keep cleric mana up. Also, personally I think you're wrong about our lull being ghetto. Maybe it's the most reliable in the game? Might not last as long but gets resisted less. Bards are gonna be able to split a room of 5 casters with generally way less problems than another pulling class.

My only gripe, which is minor, with the class is the charm takes mana, which after pulling for so long eventually wears your mana down even with the piddly mana cost, if you're like me and pull, then generally go grab a charm target to break it when the last target goes down.

Anyway, just thought I'd talk about the other aspects of this class that some seem to miss out on when they just see us running circles, which isn't easy either especially when you're soloing. Try it. The easy factor comes in when there's a duo or ae snare.

Back to your thread!

[Splorf22]

I think the big problem is that low-hp kiting has trivialized this. It used to be that bards would periodically monopolize zones AOE kites, but there are only so many bards, and not every bard did it because it was easy to die. Low-hp kiting makes it risk free, makes it possible in many zones, and means that bards can PL an unlimited stream of clients. Between this and Chardok AOE anyone can pl a toon 1-60 in like a week. Personally I think it's so unbalancing that it needs a nerf regardless of being classic or not.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

My estimate is he could make around 200k during busy week, maybe even more. Where does all that money go? Is he sponsoring halfling terrorist units that will perform suicide attacks in Neriak?

oh dear god that would be so goddam cool.

Devs? Can it be put in game? Yeah, I know it's not classic, but you know what? It should have been.

[gotrocks]

Your replies in this thread make you sound like a sociopath.
I was thinking this the entire time reading this thread.

Your attitude is toxic as its already been stated, and you don't even realize you're being an asshole and sound like a sociopath.^

[Ganjar]

HAHA , filthy bard, jeers is what u deserve!!! I have not seen rojas ever in game, but now that i know he exists , i hates him!! Bet on that

[Seliaa]

HAHA , filthy bard, jeers is what u deserve!!! I have not seen rojas ever in game, but now that i know he exists , i hates him!! Bet on that

EC and OT where you'd see him flapping his tongue

I wouldnt have minded so much of what he does, but if appropriate leveled people are trying to level normally, he should respect that and not be such a douche.

[Masakizt]

This guy has consistently been called out by the marjority, yet is still in denial and believes its everyone else's fault.

Low hp kiters of the respective level, and everyone else exping the normal way should without a doubt have priority. Any PLers should be respectful of that. Nothing is wrong with bards kiting. For the most part it is accepted as part of the classic game but it is true bards like you, Rojas, leave a sour taste in people's mouths.

Truth be told about you Rojas, speaking from expierence in my own interactions with you, you do distrupt the whole zone. You have been advised of ways to distrupt the zone less but choose not follow.

You go out of your way to pull every single mob up. Thus tying up the mobs for a long time while you take 30-40mins to pull. Do smaller pulls, don't pull everything up, you will find 2 reasonable size pulls in the same space as one of your whole zone pulls is about the same, yet much less disruptive. Kill quicker = more mobs for everyone and not be selfish and tying everything down.

Many bards snare PL in OT. They aren't seen flying off the rails in ooc, people like them. Them same cannot be said for you

I hope this post goes to RNF. Think it's hilarious that this fella made his own flame post about well... Himself

[Masakizt]

Just because they take 2mins to kill once AE snare kited, you sti tie them down while pulling so a kill would take you a minimum of 30 minutes

[cs616]

cs616 is Goodies, right? What's the name of your bard?


Nope, Gileren. I probably should have a sig of some sort.

[citizen1080]

Im out Dostarr...gonna distance myself from this train wreck you have created. Good luck with your business but I won't be providing escrow for this anymore. Not that I have yet anyways.

Giving bards a bad name with this bullshit.

[Silent]

Didn't read 13 pages of this, I play red so if someone has a problem with me AE kiting they can kill me. Or I them. Problem solved.

[Widan]

A bard named Puller decided to pull the entirety of EC, including stealing the orc camps from groups camping there, and train all the mobs on the tunnel. Rojas did you buy another bard?

[Flamewraith]

I play red.

Stopped caring right about there.

[Calibix]

If you want to see some awesome bards look to any of these (I might have forgotten some and did not include alts or people who did not level the character originally): Fauss, Astuce, Arrisard, Yibz, Ennio, Llaile, Lavarian, Deajay, Voski, Franswa, Halfelf, Retus, Capi, Dalven, Stefen, Giegue, and Culprit.

My mind is going blank for more, but any of these people will show you what a good bard can do in any situation.

I am both shamed and offended that I didn't make the list!! (Jaxinor) :p

Too be fair, new to the server, and haven't been on much though. Still lvl 56 qqqqqqqq.

In regards to the whole swarm vs lvl in dungeon issue, I'd rather low hp kite with someone any day of the week. I also much prefer to duo/trio for the reason I'm about to elaborate on(and the fact full group xp is terrible). The problem with grouping is most people think they are good, when in fact they aren't. The more people you add to this group, the more likely you get one of those people (you know, like monks who agro an entire room and run it back without FD and call that pulling, tanks that can't hold agro, healers that start CH when your at 20%, the list is near endless).

So when I group, unless its that rare really nice group, I inevitably feel like I need to pick up the slack, which usually results in my death and no one else's trying to save the day. For example, the last Seb group I was in we were at chef camp. We had no tank, and the monk can't hold agro, so I'm tanking. I'm also the only CC, the only snare, 1 of 2 people trying to interrupt casts, and the only mana regen, which I never get a chance to use effectively since I'm also pulling because we have one of those winner monks (at least he asked for lull on chef room before I just said f it I'll pull too). Why I would subject myself to that when I could just get someone I know and trust to play well for significantly higher returns idk.

In regards to OP, I also leveled in OT from like 35-46 dragging an afk ranger and pally with me (yeah 3 hybrids /guntohead. Also didn't realize I should have moved to EJ). I think someone complained literally once or twice. And it was a guy I've seen complaining about a lot of random shit in other zones since then. Also, it was the first time I met Zanderr, and he was always courteous (and helpful with bard related questions) with me and I with him. I'd ask if he was kiting etc, and he'd let me know when he was done and vice versa. Definitely user error on OP's part.

[Ganjar]

GOOD BARD SITING!!

JUSTIN IS MUY BUENO BARD!
such a rare and nice thing- not pl ing me or giving me some free exp - - no! just being plain curteous . Props to u!

[Dalven]

In regards to the whole swarm vs lvl in dungeon issue, I'd rather low hp kite with someone any day of the week. I also much prefer to duo/trio for the reason I'm about to elaborate on(and the fact full group xp is terrible). The problem with grouping is most people think they are good, when in fact they aren't. The more people you add to this group, the more likely you get one of those people (you know, like monks who agro an entire room and run it back without FD and call that pulling, tanks that can't hold agro, healers that start CH when your at 20%, the list is near endless).

So when I group, unless its that rare really nice group, I inevitably feel like I need to pick up the slack, which usually results in my death and no one else's trying to save the day. For example, the last Seb group I was in we were at chef camp. We had no tank, and the monk can't hold agro, so I'm tanking. I'm also the only CC, the only snare, 1 of 2 people trying to interrupt casts, and the only mana regen, which I never get a chance to use effectively since I'm also pulling because we have one of those winner monks (at least he asked for lull on chef room before I just said f it I'll pull too). Why I would subject myself to that when I could just get someone I know and trust to play well for significantly higher returns idk.


As a bard you have the power to make these groups awesome. You have to work hard, often harder than most others in the group, but that's just part of being a bard. Being in a group with a cleric and four melees will happen to you and you do have to do everything.

I remember being in one group like this where I was doing the pulling/haste/cc/snare/slow/mana etc and somebody was still bitching that I wasn't chain pulling with charm. Picking up the slack is bard's job but you can manage all these roles with a bit of creative thinking - I find if somebody isn't doing something asking them to politely and saying why usually works. An example I often find myself using is asking people to root mobs so I can be out chain pulling without worrying the group will wipe if they don't get the mob down before snare wears off.

I feel a bit sorry for monks - there are so many casters in seb which must make FD pulling a nightmare. However bard's are so effective at pulling in Seb there's no way anyone else should be pulling over you in a group, no matter the set up.

If anything getting into a duo/trio with an enchanter or shammy is a lot of fun - I've duo'd/trio'd a lot of the camps in seb and its good to get out of the traditional group scenario as well.

The problem I have with low hp kiting is while its a creative way to level, once mastered it makes things trivial. Its why I only kited on and off up until level 40, and even then it was usually when I couldn't get a group. Once I went to Sol B and realised I could make such a big difference to groups that was the end of my kiting days, other than a few low hp kite - which was mostly just to prove I could do it.

These are things I've found in my 60 levels as a bard in any case :)

[Reguiy]

Didn't read 13 pages of this, I play red so if someone has a problem with me AE kiting they can kill me. Or I them. Problem solved.

U mean if u have a problem with a bard kiting u can chase them across the universe? I believe I will play WOW or league to fufill my pvp desires. You know..games designed for pvp.

[Dostarr]

Just couple of points from the top of my head

Imagine what would the servet look like if everyone played it like Rojas. He spends his time in EQ making money (for what ffs? How much money do you need?) not playing the actual game. His style is detrimental to the server and only helps rich guys from the top to lvl more and more alts so they can cockblock more raid content.

How exactly does he lvl other peoples alts without them taking an active role in the process?. Well i will tell you what i think. I do not have any evidence, but my feeling is he boxes them. I saw him lvling one of those alts in kurns and it had boxing written all over it. Let me rephrase it...i saw many suspicious duos where i thought these guys might be boxing, but the feeling was never as strong as when i saw rojas PLing this low lvl char in kurns. If i had to quantify, i would say i was 90% sure.

One thing is his playstyle which creates negative energy and only helps himself and few rich lazy guys, but is not actualy "illegal", other thing would be if he is using ip exemption to box while PLing.

I might be wrong, but i doubt it.

My estimate is he could make around 200k during busy week, maybe even more. Where does all that money go? Is he sponsoring halfling terrorist units that will perform suicide attacks in Neriak?

At least you had the decency to say you BELIEVED I box... I have two brothers, and a SS on my PL service thread from ambrotoss clearing us of boxing. It's called "you name it, choose it, I PL it" in EC tunnels. Also the people in OT typically like me after weeks of concerted effort there always seems to be at least a few who know how I am when I swarm, which I won't repeat again all the things I do to mitigate zone disruption.

[Dostarr]

EC and OT where you'd see him flapping his tongue

I wouldnt have minded so much of what he does, but if appropriate leveled people are trying to level normally, he should respect that and not be such a douche.

I do!

[Dostarr]

Just because they take 2mins to kill once AE snare kited, you sti tie them down while pulling so a kill would take you a minimum of 30 minutes

LOL, this made me giggle...weeks ago I started setting a 15m stopwatch...and when it goes off I pull; so this just... oh man, 30m+ Idk where yall hear this shit..but it really makes me giggle. I'd like to know where you get the 30m timer from, seeing as how I've never once seen you at our kill spot and I run see invis. I'm GUESSING you just assumed it...SURPRISE!

[Dostarr]

A bard named Puller decided to pull the entirety of EC, including stealing the orc camps from groups camping there, and train all the mobs on the tunnel. Rojas did you buy another bard?

Nope

[Dostarr]

Im out Dostarr...gonna distance myself from this train wreck you have created. Good luck with your business but I won't be providing escrow for this anymore. Not that I have yet anyways.

Giving bards a bad name with this bullshit.

LOL Sorry Bob, Idk how it ended up like this. You talked to me, I'm decent. I've always been respectful in OT. There's a few bards who don't know how to play their class I've bitched at but...that's really it. My attitude is toxic, because it gets old...Even on this thread, all this hate and I've never done anything wrong. Using the cyclical logic that because my attitude is toxic now that caused my attitude being toxic is a bit laughable. You can't presuppose a conclusion as a basis for your hypothesis in support of the conclusion. However yes, it is absolutely toxic now, rumour mail and facetious ignorance have led Rojas to being hated. So I will say this now, clear and concise.

The reason I made this thread, the point of treating bards like shit even when they are being decent, has never been shown to be more clear than by this thread. I was a nice bard, I did give a shit...But seriously? Whats the point in ATTEMPTING to be nice, when people still spread lies and make the same claims as if you HAD been a douche. I might as well be a douche and make more profit, if I am going to suffer the negativity regardless of my effort. Hence the point of this thread to begin with!! I noticed it happening. And now, due to all the BS, it has happened. I'm sure I still won't be a complete douche...but I'm not gonna spend an hour a day talking to groups..I'll just pull what I believe will leave them enough and be done with it. Sorry if it's not enough, feel free to msg me as always I'll be reasonable but..don't expect me to go out of my way for ya if ya act like the people in this thread. To those NOT in this thread//on forums...fuck, am I sorry. //endthread

[Barkingturtle]

Seek help.

[Sollix]

This thread is so much more bearable now that I have Dostarr ignored.

[SavageBeast15]

Im out Dostarr...gonna distance myself from this train wreck you have created. Good luck with your business but I won't be providing escrow for this anymore. Not that I have yet anyways.

Giving bards a bad name with this bullshit.

Lol you defended this scumbag on his PL thread when everyone was trying to get the word out on this scummy bummy! look at you now!

[webrunner5]

Im out Dostarr...gonna distance myself from this train wreck you have created. Good luck with your business but I won't be providing escrow for this anymore. Not that I have yet anyways.

Giving bards a bad name with this bullshit.

It doesn't take a lot to give most Bards a bad name. I know it is not fair for the few on here that play them well like they can be played. But very few do or can. Sorry it is a fact. :( As a Healer I don't need some jackass singing one song half the night in a group I am in.

I am not blaming a lot of Bards for doing it. There is a reason Sony came up with Melody later in the game. Twisting 3 or 4 songs for hours on end and trying to talk in a group just sucks. But I still don't like Bards on average in a group. One of the best groups I was ever in was in CoM with a Bard pretty much doing all the work by himself. He was just awesome. Don't remember his name to save my ass. But he or she was rare as hell.

[Barrier]

I rarely post, but I do come on and read posts and this one struck me. Try being in The Dreadlands the last week or so. The whole zone, almost, is being pulled. Watching 50 mobs in a train is interesting at first and then annoying, because when the bard dies, those mobs many times boomerang back due to transferred aggro.

As for the OP, this came to my mind... "If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, then you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens.

[Gadwen]

LOL Sorry Bob, Idk how it ended up like this. You talked to me, I'm decent. I've always been respectful in OT. There's a few bards who don't know how to play their class I've bitched at but...that's really it. My attitude is toxic, because it gets old...Even on this thread, all this hate and I've never done anything wrong. Using the cyclical logic that because my attitude is toxic now that caused my attitude being toxic is a bit laughable. You can't presuppose a conclusion as a basis for your hypothesis in support of the conclusion. However yes, it is absolutely toxic now, rumour mail and facetious ignorance have led Rojas to being hated. So I will say this now, clear and concise.

The reason I made this thread, the point of treating bards like shit even when they are being decent, has never been shown to be more clear than by this thread. I was a nice bard, I did give a shit...But seriously? Whats the point in ATTEMPTING to be nice, when people still spread lies and make the same claims as if you HAD been a douche. I might as well be a douche and make more profit, if I am going to suffer the negativity regardless of my effort. Hence the point of this thread to begin with!! I noticed it happening. And now, due to all the BS, it has happened. I'm sure I still won't be a complete douche...but I'm not gonna spend an hour a day talking to groups..I'll just pull what I believe will leave them enough and be done with it. Sorry if it's not enough, feel free to msg me as always I'll be reasonable but..don't expect me to go out of my way for ya if ya act like the people in this thread. To those NOT in this thread//on forums...fuck, am I sorry. //endthread

Yeah you are clearly the victim here.

But seriously, I mean this with the best intentions....you should seek professional help. You may not have any "mental defects", but you clearly have issues that haven't been dealt with.

[mike90]

well in my only experience with Rojas i was soloing in ot walking around for several minutes at a time unable to find mobs. Then i see this guy run by with half the zone.

I say in ooc man i hate bards sometimes. This guy gets all offended like somehow I shouldn't mind one person taking half a zones mob population. He then says relax I don't even get exp on these like the fact that hes just pling for profit makes it better and not worse.

Cut to 20 or so mins later I see him oocing for a rez so I say "lol" in ooc. He says REALLY? Like I shouldn't find his death while attempting to kite 50 mobs amusing. I say yes really and he responds by saying " your mother should have had an abortion".

Classy and charming fellow def doesn't give bards a bad name

[Barkingturtle]

Rojas so bad he gives abortions a bad name, imo.

[webrunner5]

Rojas so bad he gives abortions a bad name, imo.

Now that is pretty low lol. :) He isn't the first or the last Bard on here that will be a Horse's Ass.

[Calibix]

As a bard you have the power to make these groups awesome. You have to work hard, often harder than most others in the group, but that's just part of being a bard. Being in a group with a cleric and four melees will happen to you and you do have to do everything.

I remember being in one group like this where I was doing the pulling/haste/cc/snare/slow/mana etc and somebody was still bitching that I wasn't chain pulling with charm. Picking up the slack is bard's job but you can manage all these roles with a bit of creative thinking - I find if somebody isn't doing something asking them to politely and saying why usually works. An example I often find myself using is asking people to root mobs so I can be out chain pulling without worrying the group will wipe if they don't get the mob down before snare wears off.

I feel a bit sorry for monks - there are so many casters in seb which must make FD pulling a nightmare. However bard's are so effective at pulling in Seb there's no way anyone else should be pulling over you in a group, no matter the set up.

If anything getting into a duo/trio with an enchanter or shammy is a lot of fun - I've duo'd/trio'd a lot of the camps in seb and its good to get out of the traditional group scenario as well.

The problem I have with low hp kiting is while its a creative way to level, once mastered it makes things trivial. Its why I only kited on and off up until level 40, and even then it was usually when I couldn't get a group. Once I went to Sol B and realised I could make such a big difference to groups that was the end of my kiting days, other than a few low hp kite - which was mostly just to prove I could do it.

These are things I've found in my 60 levels as a bard in any case :)

My point, which I think you kind of got, is that you have to work significantly harder than everyone else in that case. Or I could low hp kite with much less effort, much less risk, and much greater reward. Don't get me wrong, a good bard can carry a group so hard, more so than any other class in my opinion. But I also feel that everyone should carry their weight. If I'm doing that much work, I'd rather it be contributed to people who deserve it.

Don't get me wrong, I group a lot still, as I've only really been kiting with one person lately (Bob /wave!). I'm just to the point where I'd rather camp something solo than go through the headache of PuGs unless its an invite from a friend.

[Wudan]

I find it amazing that nobody cares about the fact he uses IP exemption to box the toon he is PLing.....wtf!

[Dalven]

My point, which I think you kind of got, is that you have to work significantly harder than everyone else in that case. Or I could low hp kite with much less effort, much less risk, and much greater reward. Don't get me wrong, a good bard can carry a group so hard, more so than any other class in my opinion. But I also feel that everyone should carry their weight. If I'm doing that much work, I'd rather it be contributed to people who deserve it.

Don't get me wrong, I group a lot still, as I've only really been kiting with one person lately (Bob /wave!). I'm just to the point where I'd rather camp something solo than go through the headache of PuGs unless its an invite from a friend.

Yeah thats a fair point but not something I worry about. Some classes just aren't gonna be as hard work even when played to the limits of the class. Nobody said EQ was fair :D

[Calibix]

Yeah thats a fair point but not something I worry about. Some classes just aren't gonna be as hard work even when played to the limits of the class. Nobody said EQ was fair :D

Very true. I guess I don't have the patience I used to lol.

[Fael]

I have no respect for players who whine like babies about bard kiting. There are plenty of places that offer better experience and loot than DL, OT, and BW. Learn 2 play, or try something new. And this is coming from a bard who leveled almost entirely in groups.

Thanks,

Dolic

[Gadwen]

I have no respect for players who whine like babies about bard kiting. There are plenty of places that offer better experience and loot than DL, OT, and BW. Learn 2 play, or try something new. And this is coming from a bard who leveled almost entirely in groups.

Thanks,

Dolic

It doesn't matter if another place has better exp, those open zones are also used quite a bit by any class that can kite, these players should be able to hunt wherever they want without being shit all over by greedy douchebags. But I guess in your eyes any zone that a bard can kite in should be reserved just for the bards huh?

[gotrocks]

I was thinking this the entire time reading this thread.

Your attitude is toxic as its already been stated, and you don't even realize you're being an asshole and sound like a sociopath.^

whats even worse is you try to sound intelligent and logical to cover it up... when in reality everyone can see that all you're doing is justifying to yourself your attitude. it sucks, you're an asshole, and you sound like a sociopath. Your posts here have pretty much proved that, and if you can't see it, i worry for your future.

[Agatha]

this is the worst thread i have ever seen, i just skipped to page 17 and didnt even read anything, i just knew by the title "a bards tale" that this post and everyone in it is absolutely terrible.

love you - agatha

p.s. made a mages tale post here, http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1020452#post1020452

[webrunner5]

this is the worst thread i have ever seen, i just skipped to page 17 and didnt even read anything, i just knew by the title "a bards tale" that this post and everyone in it is absolutely terrible.

love you - agatha

p.s. made a mages tale post here, http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1020452#post1020452

I guess you would like everyone on this BLUE thread to go over and shit up your crybaby, PMS sob story Red thread. :o You play on a PvP server and think people are suppose to be nice??? :confused:

[Gadwen]

I guess you would like everyone on this BLUE thread to go over and shit up your sob story thread. :o You play on a PvP server and think people are suppose to be nice??? :confused:

No he plays on PvP and thinks that he matters and that people care.

[Agatha]

No he plays on PvP and thinks that he matters and that people care.

im a girl

[Gadwen]

im a girl

Whatever you say, dude.

[Flamewraith]

Agatha now makes the second person from red to drop in, act to cool for this thread, then leave. Do us all a favor and skip to the leaving part right away.

[Fael]

It doesn't matter if another place has better exp, those open zones are also used quite a bit by any class that can kite, these players should be able to hunt wherever they want without being shit all over by greedy douchebags. But I guess in your eyes any zone that a bard can kite in should be reserved just for the bards huh?

I'm not suggesting that "those open zones" are not "also used by any class that can kite." I'm suggesting that said people using those zones to quad kite should learn to play the game better. There are many better places. For example, kiting snarler's and pirates along the shore in FV is much better because the mobs have much less hp than mobs in OT. Yet, no one goes there.

Notwithstanding this fact, it typically is not the quad kiters who are QQ. It is the full groups of 6 who think they are entitled to "hunt wherever they want." But they aren't entitled to any such thing. If a zone is full and there isn't enough mobs, then you have to go somewhere else. This server has tons and tons of under utilized zones. It is a big world out there. Smart people adapt and overcome, they find greener pastures. Lazy people stay where they are and cry about it.

Thus, I have no respect for you or the others who are too lazy to find better leveling grounds, and instead cry about fairness.

QQ

Dolic