Solo Classes... Chanter without Charm?

[Drakul]

I always played a necro in classic. I liked to play a lone wolf with the option to group up when I had the time or inclination, to have the option to play around with soloing difficult and challenging mobs in dungeons or pair up with another necro just to see what we would kill, fun stuff like trying to solo the guy for dead men floating in Chardok, breaking and camping Lord Efreeti, duoing planar trash, risky and thrilling experimentation in general.

I'd really like to wait to start an Iksar Necro this time around and try out another class until the server progresses.

Bottom line is I'm looking for something with similar soloability/challenge but which can be powerful if played well and has tricks like a necro.

After reviewing a number of threads I was all set to make an Enchanter. I like the idea of all the utility and illusion spells, the ability to go to any city and not be KoS (possibly opening up guard killing options without worrying about KOS?), the potential power and soloability, and the group role, but then I've read on these boards that charm has either been nerfed or is bugged. Charm was the one thing I remember that made me think I might want to roll an enchanter way back when.

So what is the solo viability of Enchanters on the p1999 server at this time? Is charm working as it did in classic? Can Enchanters still solo cool stuff without charm? I don't mind getting torn up every now and then, but if I break a camp I'd like to have a reasonable chance to hold it assuming I learn to play the class.

I'm hesitant to go with a mage because it seems like it would be very very similar to the necro without the utility (feign, health to mana) and cool evilness, and I hear mages get gimped in Kunark.

A druid seems like it would be fun to level and travel with but unable to venture deep into dungeons or solo crazy tough mobs at high levels... and also very common on the server. Tracking does sound interesting though.

Shammies might be too melee based for me... maybe I'm wrong. I definately don't want to play a melee class unless he can spank tough mobs like a necro.

So any input on a solo class other than a necro but almost as fun to play alone? Is enchanter the way to go here?

[zeval31]

Enchanter is really a group inclined class. xp'ing with charm is tricky and needs certain parameters (sow/jboots for safety, close to zoneline).
Back in the days I stop soloing after the first few levels, and never turned back to solo, as it was less efficient and above all less fun

[garyogburn]

I think alot of the enchanters solo skill relies on charm, and on p1999, it is a bit off from live. I dont think the spell is worth using unless you have over 200cha, is what ive heard, someone might want to clarify.

However, as a solo option, shaman is somehwat similar to necros. They can solo some stuff even a necro cant, due to being able to take a couple hits from summoning mobs. They have amazing utility, and canni + regen means you are very mana efficient. Shamans dont really melee past 20 or so, unless they get bored :P

[Overcast]

Enchanter is really a group inclined class. xp'ing with charm is tricky and needs certain parameters (sow/jboots for safety, close to zoneline).
Back in the days I stop soloing after the first few levels, and never turned back to solo, as it was less efficient and above all less fun

Indeed, but you can 'rune' yourself too.

One of the most effective 'tools' I found when charm soloing was to keep the mob you are fighting rooted as much as possible. If your charmed mob gets loose - mez it ASAP. That gives you more time to re-tash or whatever, then re-charm. If root held on your target, then you only have one mob to deal with - not 2.

Sometimes you can just charm without the mez, etc...

You can always mes the rooted thing you were fighting too. A short-timed low level mez is good for that.

If I recall, after you mez, you can re-charm all you want. If the charm won't hold longer than the mez - well, you needed to re-cast it anyway :)

Otherwise, it's usually cake for an enchanter to find a group. Or you can use your normal 'pet' - just take out lots of blues.. I did that a lot, just tash, let the pet get some agro and always be ready to summon another pet. For all the weaknesses the enchanter pets are, they were easy enough to re-cast.

[Drakul]

Hmmm... I think I'll bite the bullet and try out the chanter, I really like caster classes.

Thanks for the quick replies!

[Overcast]

Hmmm... I think I'll bite the bullet and try out the chanter, I really like caster classes.

Thanks for the quick replies!

You didn't happen to play a Troll on Vallon-Zek - WAY back, did you? :)

[astarothel]

How to solo Dorn's camp:

199 cha, get to the level where Dorn consistently cons yellow (13 or 14)

Lull the 2 dervs in the camp.
Whirl, Tash, Charm.

Sick it on the rightmost derv, if its the fat ogre that heals. Otherwise the middle one which is a caster.
Sit behind los on the hill after you root the target you're killing and drop a dot on it.
If charm breaks, only Dorn should be running. Whirl and charm and resume.
Pray charm doesn't break on the wizard derv, because if it does its not pretty.
By the time the last mob in the camp is dead, Dorn should be close to expiring.
Release him, kill him, med up for respawns.
Repops should be about long enough to be at FM again.

[Malrubius]

My understanding is charm is underpowered (breaks very quickly) at low levels and overpowered (rarely breaks early) at high levels.

Also, CHA appears to have a much greater impact (at least at high levels) than it did in classic.

[Sigleaf]

Giving you a heads up.


I'm in same boat as you, played a necro on live and wanted to try chanter this time around. Well naturally as a necro you love soloing, chanter can't do that past 12 imo, least not effectively, so your left grouping.

Oh boy... grouping... I had several oasis groups and every idiot and their mother must play there because every time we got a 2+ pull and I would mez the add, some stupid necro or druid would dot the damn thing, causing me to get agro.... After countless deaths from others stupidity, I just rerolled a diff class. GL to you.

[Drakul]

You didn't happen to play a Troll on Vallon-Zek - WAY back, did you? :)

Nope I had a necro names Drakul on either Quellious or Tholuxe Paells I forget which... was in a guild called Knights of the Shadowed Blade if I recall correctly

[Ropethunder]

From my experience charm is useless until about 35 where is starts to hold for a reasonable amount of time. By 44 it sticks pretty well but there are still plenty of instant breaks and short durations. Earlier levels with charm are completely useless.

[Drakul]

Tried DE enchanter today... died many times without even reaching level 2... forgot how hard this game is. New plan until I get twink gear = gnome mage. BTW his name is Artoodeetoo, look him up if your online and have any leveling tips.

[Overcast]

Tried DE enchanter today... died many times without even reaching level 2... forgot how hard this game is. New plan until I get twink gear = gnome mage. BTW his name is Artoodeetoo, look him up if your online and have any leveling tips.

I found with the enchanter, to use your dumb pet a lot and stick with blues.

The first levels are indeed a challenge.
Heck, it's always a challenge for them, lol.

[Combo]

Don't succumb to grouping. The people suck, the XP sucks, and you'll get lazy.

Learn to solo with Charm. It's possible as early as 12.

[Chodan]

most important thing to charm is your level vs mob's level. after that it's MR then lastly charisma

[quido]

Enchanters are definitely the most powerful solo class in the game as it stands. Say what you will about the charm and all that, yes playing enc takes a lot of finesse and an understanding of game mechanics, but it is so powerful when done right that it's ridiculous honestly. I can clear from King in lguk to the huge water elemental in one spawn cycle easy every time, even with a couple unexpected breaks.

[Arclanz]

Do we know at what point charm becomes effective for a level 12? do they need 150 Cha, 200, etc? At 90 CHA, charm lasts about 5 seconds the vast majority of time. In essence; useless. My Enchanter on live uses Charm all the time. Although when leveling him, I always was with a group back then. I didn't start charming regularly until in the 50s.

[Chodan]

Charm didnt really work that well for me until level 30+

[Omnimorph]

7 cha bracers x2, 7 cha ring x2, crude stein 15 cha, opalline earring x2 5 cha.

That's over 50 cha right there for about 300p. Add you self cha buff and you should be able to charm to a degree.

[Ahroun]

Hello!
If any of you guys here have the following:
7 cha bracers x2, 7 cha ring x2, a Crude Stein
I will buy them!

I would like to re-roll again to what I should have started playing originally
re: Enchanter.

Send me a tell in game on Enasni!

Thanks.

[wvdmc]

Run down to Oggok during peak hours, there are usually people killing guards that will let you loot a crude stein.

[Chodan]

Talk to Omnimorph. He'll make you the two charisma bracers, rings and the neck for ~450. Get a crude stein for free from people soloing oggok guards and you should be able to charm for 30 seconds instead of 5! Yay.

I'm joking btw. But you're better off just using your pet til around 30 or so, and at 29 your pet can DW.

[Potus]

I tried charm soloing today since I dinged 12. It's a bloodbath, I was lucky if Charm stuck for longer than 2 ticks. If Charm is that gear dependent then no one except twink Enchanters can charm solo at low level.

[maegi]

I don't have great gear but at level 16 i had 167 cha and charm still blows to the point it's totally useless and unreliable as a soloing means. It lasts on average 3 ticks, sometimes 20 seconds usually less. As others have stated probably best to stick with the animations until 30. Chanters are very powerful 40+ , but you gotta be willing to die a lot to get there or play smarter and fight like a mage. Single pulls. Howver you can get single pulls a mage can't by using the Lull line of spells. So that part is easy. When whirl isn't such a mana hog, use that over anything else with singles. At 12 it's a mana hog so until 16+ you probably want to stick with root.

[DevGrousis]

this is weird. i havent used my charm once and i've solo'd (and FAST to lvl 32 so far) i've only grouped for about 2 hours in which the experience was so bad i'll stay away from it as long as i can, although i have to say it was a lot of fun. I have mana regen buffs, i have hp regen buffs (troll illusion). i have an very kick ass pet (the only down fall is that i cant control him like a nec/mage can). i have nice DD, i have DoT's, debuffs, slows and hastes. i never die because if your dying as an enchanter then you suck as an enchanter. root, mez, lull, perma stun.

if you want to solo but wait til your necro can be iksar, then play an enchanter, its a fun class to play, and you wont be just another boring mage :D

[Dystra]

I solo'd pretty much my entire way to 50 in about 2 weeks without the use of charm. I tried the group thing a couple times, but it wasn't nearly as fast. Although the fix to Troll Illusion would probably slow that down a lot more today, but even then the Enchanter pet isn't that bad, and you don't have to worry about it ever breaking. It's not very quick at first, but it gets progressively better as you level. The only real challenge is managing both you and your pet's hit points, as well as your mana, with taking some hits or whirl.

[DevGrousis]

I solo'd pretty much my entire way to 50 in about 2 weeks without the use of charm. I tried the group thing a couple times, but it wasn't nearly as fast. Although the fix to Troll Illusion would probably slow that down a lot more today, but even then the Enchanter pet isn't that bad, and you don't have to worry about it ever breaking. It's not very quick at first, but it gets progressively better as you level. The only real challenge is managing both you and your pet's hit points, as well as your mana, with taking some hits or whirl.

fix to troll illusion???

[Striiker]

Don't succumb to grouping. The people suck, the XP sucks, and you'll get lazy.

Learn to solo with Charm. It's possible as early as 12.

On the original live server in 1999/2000 I would agree with this last statement. I did that very thing and was soloing reds a LOT. I did this starting in North Karana with Beetles and various Griffs.
I rolled my enchanter on P1999 and headed to the Karanas once I hit the same level as I did on the original live. I got my ass handed to me several times because charm does NOT last anywhere close to how it did back in the day. I had a character of the same race and had better +cha gear and still charm was horrible. This was a big disappointment as I was really looking forward to reliving the good old days in this way. It was fun!
I asked about this difference and posted it as a bug. I was told that it's not going to change. Others have said that at 39, charm is far better and Enchanters finally get closer to how they were on classic.

[guineapig]

200+ charisma is not enough on this server. Basically wait till level 39 when you get Cajoiling Whispers and you will start to see a world of difference in charm durations.

I agree with the above statement that a smart enchanter can solo quite well with their animation. People get way to hung up on DPS and ignore the virtue of stability sometimes.

[Messianic]

Chanter pets are also incredibly valuable because they are CHEAP. Pet gets close to death? Root mob, chain pet. The only pet command chanters have access to is "pet get lost", so you can always kill it just before summoning a second one.

In contrast with mages, you don't have to risk your butt to summon another pet in combat...

[Extunarian]

Even though this thread is old as hell, I'll pipe in.

at 212 charisma I was charming whenever I was in a group with a healer who was ok with it from level 12 onward. Soloing I used charm when troll regen was like free chloroplast. Now that troll regen is what it should be, you simply cant charm at lower levels or you'll spend all of your time regening HP. It comes back slow.

However what Chicanery said was right: at higher levels something happens independent from your CHA stat to help charm last. Once my chanter dinged 37 my charms started lasting so long I was regularly going afk for a minute or two without worry (had a ranger with me to grab agro and kite it around if it did break while I was away, but didn't need to).

Long story short: use your animations while soloing until you get to 36+. Always have 200 cha if you're going to try charming.

[Malrubius]

I hate to say it, but it will clear up some of the above information...

Enchanter charm on P1999 is not remotely like Enchanter charm in classic EQ. It is (I think) a well-known difference, and just one that we have to live with. Think of them as two different things.

On P1999...
At lower levels, charm duration is a few ticks if you are lucky.
At higher levels, charm duration is usually close to max.
CHA has an overweighted impact at higher levels.

In classic...
Charm at all levels was viable, but also challenging with early breaks always possible.
CHA did have an effect, but it was slight (as in 100cha giving about 10% longer charms on average, according to one log linked elsewhere on these boards).

[Sorrow*qc]

i was able to solo from 1 to 35 , sometime i get a group when im lazy, i only started to use charm since i got the Beguile spell, b4 you get beguile , just use your pet and stun/root

i can duo with about any other class and do great xp :) thats what i love about enchanters

[cornbread]

How much CHA can I expect to pick up with gear? I just started P1999 the other day and was apparently mistakenly under the impression that this was close to classic, so I left my CHA at 70.

Am I screwed at high level or is this recoverable?

[Messianic]

I just started P1999 the other day and was apparently mistakenly under the impression that this was close to classic

About 90% of it is ;)

[Malrubius]

I just started P1999 the other day and was apparently mistakenly under the impression that this was close to classic

It is. It is incredible and by far as close to classic as you will find. It's just that Charm isn't like classic :/

[Lazortag]

You can use charm to solo from the moment you get it if you have enough Cha. The exp is stupidly quick if you can get someone to give you clarity (though from 29 onward you can do it yourself) and if you invis yourself to break charm whenever your pets go to lowish HP (like, low enough to be killed with a DD). I never found it that risky and I mostly did it in the middle of Uguk.

[cornbread]

Lazortag, what do you think is enough CHA to do it effectively?

[guineapig]

It's been stated in this thread a few times. 200 is the magic number if you are an enchanter. If you're a bard, don't worry about hitting 200 charisma because your charm only lasts a few tics at a time anyway.

[Striiker]

200+ charisma is not enough on this server. Basically wait till level 39 when you get Cajoiling Whispers and you will start to see a world of difference in charm durations.

I agree with the above statement that a smart enchanter can solo quite well with their animation. People get way to hung up on DPS and ignore the virtue of stability sometimes.

I fully agree with this. Once I learned of the limitations with charm at lower levels, I moved to rely upon my animation. This was a great way to rip through stuff. I used this in Befallen and in SolA (I primarily grouped in Upper Guk in between). The usual approach for me..
1) Buff up self and animation
2) Lull extras in the area
3) Pull with tash (or sometimes slow if a hard hitter)
4) root as mob arrives (and starts beating me)
5) slow mob
6) DOT mob
7) med while animation is fighting
8) cast a DD spell if needed or step in to take some hits
9) Use whirl when needed. (Especially with casters where I color stun and then whirl when I see a casting message)
10) Meditate / heal up and repeat..

This can be slower than how charming was on the old live servers but it's really not bad at all. We at least have options where others do not. Eventually I am sure the devs will get around to fixing charm for lower levels but I understand why it's not the priority right now.