Invis/ITU stacking

[Aeolwind]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=992345&postcount=160

ITU and Invis stacking?

[big league chew]

on red yes
on blue who cares

[kaos057]

I remember it always stacking. You obviously couldn't do both yourself but they did stack if someone else casted the second.

[Ele]

some discussion here:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77995

[Nirgon]

Now, my memory on it was Invisibility and Invisibility to undead did not stack.

Additional findings were made that if you casted camo in the right order with it, that it would work.

I do distinctly recall playing my wizard in classic through Velious in lower guk that I could not "double invis" regardless of my efforts with my best pal who was a necro.

That said, I was not a druid so that discussion may pick up if good evidence is found.

Regular "Invisibility" stacking IVU should go asap.

On a somewhat related note, take a peep at my findings on Sneak (esp for rogues with hide) being skill level dependant when avoiding detection.

[kaos057]

you could never cast ivu on someone with invis. You could always cast invis on someone with ivu. Its all about the order.

[Ele]

you could never cast ivu on someone with invis. You could always cast invis on someone with ivu. Its all about the order.

Hmm

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6173&highlight=invis+stacking

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7333&highlight=invis+stacking

[Haystacks]

On live after kunark but before velious was released I used to live in lower guk. You could have someobody start casting IVU on you and when you saw them start casting you could start invising yourself and they would both land I used to stroll to the safe hall all the time this way with my wiz and never had to worry about aggro. No idea when it stopped working though and I have no hard evidence =/

[nilbog]

On live after kunark but before velious was released I used to live in lower guk. You could have someobody start casting IVU on you and when you saw them start casting you could start invising yourself and they would both land I used to stroll to the safe hall all the time this way with my wiz and never had to worry about aggro. No idea when it stopped working though and I have no hard evidence =/

Does anyone have a definitive time when this was no longer possible? I don't remember it working in Velious.

[Haynar]

Pretty sure I was doing this on live well after PoP. It was all about order of casting and timing.

[Yoite]

At some point it was changed so you didnt have to worry about order or casting your invis while the other invis was being cast. But I know at least pre kunark you had to do it this way. I didnt use this tatic again until I started my druid which was PoP and by that time it didnt matter.

[nilbog]

Could this be related to invis stacking?

------------------------------
May 30, 2001
------------------------------
** Spell and Song Changes and Bug Fixes **

- We've been fixing holes in the spell stacking code. For the most part
the changes fix bugs that allowed tricks to get spells to stack that
were never intended to stack.

If not, does anyone know what this refers to?

[Daldaen]

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6173&highlight=Invis+stack+undead

Jan 2000
Try it the other way around.. have someone invis themselves then cast invis vs. undead. Used to be it would work either way, yet another undocumented, unnotified "feature".

I haven't had much luck getting this to work with the wizard and enchanter spell 'invisibility' doesn't want to stack,
BUT try using the Camoflague line of spells that Rangers/Druids get.. this stacks nicely.. just have the camo cast first and then the invis undead cast...

Just what I've noticed...

yes a magician has cast invis on themselves then i have cast invis to undead on them and they stack so that spell line will stack you just have to cast normal invis first


Ahh I see Ele already posted this link...

[Faerie]

For what it's worth, I remember Shauri's as always stacking with IVU. I was main puller for my groups.

[Droog007]

I could be convinced that there were some obscure tricks to get invis and IVU to stack - probably involving a bard - and I would not be surprised if IVU not stacking with invisibility vs. camouflage did not happen at the same time...

BUT, we've had it way too easy for way too long here on P99... and as a rogue I find it even a little insulting.

[Haynar]

I remember this. Spells like resist cold, would stack with druid resist buffs. Only lowwest level resist cold would stack.

H

[Technique]

I remember this. Spells like resist cold, would stack with druid resist buffs. Only lowwest level resist cold would stack.Unlikely during p99's target era: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170483

[Rygar]

I believe I've located some information relative to this thread...

These are EQ developer comments from Gordon Wrinn on 8/27/2000:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010822095930/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc59.shtml
A Bug?

[Quote from original post: I play on the tribunal and informed a guide about the presence of this bug and was told they are investigating the problem. The bug is as follows, Normally i as a cleric could cast invis vs undead on myself and them have REGULAr invis cast upon and they would stack just fine. Since the last patch the msg "You are allready invisible" is given when attempting this. Could you please give an update so we know if this bug has even made it too the right people and when it might be completed. Thank You Much]

It's not a bug. No class (except for rogues) can be invisible to both living and undead regardless of spells or abilities. So even though the spells would appear to stack, the recipient of the spell would only be under the affect of one spell.

A few weeks ago, I asked the coder to make the spells unstackable so that they didn't give the impression that being invisible to both is possible.

Next comment also from Gordon on 10/6/2000. Not as concrete as above, just more speaking to the intention of not allowing this to happen:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010822083824/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc49.shtml
Invisbility and the Undead

[Quote from original post: I thought I once read a post by you stating that no class had both forms of invisibility becuase that would be too powerfull and would make travel anywhere too easy. ]

The rogue is the only class that has the ability to be invisible to both the undead and living at the same time. The other classes that have both spells cannot have them both up at the same time.

Take these posts for what they are worth.

[lurk]

------------------------------
May 30, 2001
------------------------------
** Spell and Song Changes and Bug Fixes **

- We've been fixing holes in the spell stacking code. For the most part
the changes fix bugs that allowed tricks to get spells to stack that
were never intended to stack.


If not, does anyone know what this refers to?

I think this refers to the bards ability to stack a proc tash with a casted tash. Or a stacking lava diamond with casted DS

[Rygar]

I have a few more relevant tidbits to add to this thread.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=375
Apr 16 2002
I was on my way to Rivervale and I ran into one of these guys with camo, invis vs animals, invis vs undead, and regular invis on and it definately seen me and i took refuge in a house for a minute. Next thing i know here he is, walking through walls beating me up as i try to cast gate. Son i killed over and was on a 5 zone corpse run. BTW Im only a level 11 druid, only leveling off of turning in gnoll fangs, so I wasn't too strong at the time.
Mar 06 2004
You cannot have had all those types of invis on you. You can have 1 type of spell invis,and 1 bard invis, max, sorry, your post is bullsh*t

I found the mention of a bard invis + spell invis interesting, as this tends to make sense with various bard tricks. Comments out of era, but for what its worth.

I also located this, a January 13, 2000 dev Q&A chat session. A player asked about a bug regarding invisibility 'dropping' after being casted on, despite showing the icon still on screen:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020618203139/http://everlore.com:80/news/eq_bugchat.asp
<soy> Question : *Sam* When you're invisible and a spell (like clarity) is cast on you, or a bard is in the party singing a song, your invisibility goes away-- even though the icon is still on the screen. Basically, monsters can see you while players can't. Why is that?
<EQ_Aradune> it's a known bug and on the list to be fixed. <end>

What's interesting to the above is it correlates to the other developer question / response I posted earlier about someone posting about using Double Invis.

Seems as if spells casted on you after being invis kept the icon visible on the client, but the server did not recognize your invisibility (even though players could not see you).

nilbog, I know you mentioned your 'fear line up' was to double invis and you were convinced it should stack. I hope you are open to the possibility that this bug could have given the illusion they stacked as both icons remained up, yet only 1 of them was working.

There are other classic mechanics that can explain why some may not have been seen such as proper 'awareness / proximity range', where if you ran by a creature fast enough at the proper time then there was a chance that they wouldn't agro. This could further feed into the illusion that the Double Invis was working, when in fact people just got lucky.

If there is the belief that various timing and spell orders maybe helped to work and you want to maintain that on P99, perhaps it can be balanced with a random probability that your first invis 'drops' to monsters only after receiving your 2nd invis. You wouldn't know until you conned a creature.

[Ortnit]

Seems as if spells casted on you after being invis kept the icon visible on the client, but the server did not recognize your invisibility (even though players could not see you).

There are other classic mechanics that can explain why some may not have been seen such as proper 'awareness / proximity range', where if you ran by a creature fast enough at the proper time then there was a chance that they wouldn't agro. This could further feed into the illusion that the Double Invis was working, when in fact people just got lucky.

Come on, you have to be lucky to run by blue scowling mobs without them attacking you.
Yeah, you can run by one pack, maybe even two. But at the 3rd mob pack your luck most likely ran out when you try to run by them basically without invis (although you think you are, since you still have the icon?).
I very much doubt, that people on live would not have noticed that you only saw the icon clientside, but weren't really invis serverside.

I started playing on live during Kunark, casting invis and ITU to get both effects was quite common and it did always work for me after i learned about it. This is in fact the first time i ever hear about it not stacking.

[Nirgon]

No stack in classic

[Brocode]

No stack in classic

this is a custom server, not classic, if they like the idea, they keep it.