The Bard class needs work

[Swyft]

On live the Bard was easily ranked at the bottom of any pvp ladder during the Kunark/Vellious era. But here there are some additional nerf's that literally cripple the class, have no fear I will elaborate breaking down live from p99.

Live: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell would charm an npc's up to level 51 for up to 1 min, and took 60 mana

Project 1999: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell works exactly like it's lower lvl version Solon' song of Siren's last up to 3 ticks, but still takes the mana. This is utterly useless in pvp, due to the bug on pets that makes me be right next to my opponent to make my pet attack them.

Live: Selo's Accelerando

On live in 1999 each tick of this spell removed snare or root's applied.

Project 1999: Selo's Accelerando

Here it does not lol.

Live: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

Did not suffer a 33% reduction on Dmg. There almost worthless as it is, easily dispelled and landed poorly on live.

Project 1999: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

All equally worthless but here they suffer the 33% dmg reduction and still land poorly.

Live: Highsun

Landed poorly had crap range, only useable outdoors and at daytime.

Project 1999:

Lands on everyone still can only be used outdoors or at daytime.

So for all those con's I get the ability to shadowstep my target away from me strip two buffs/stun for less than a second during the daytime or in certain zones. Then add in Unlimited range Pillar's, And unresistable earth pets and you get a class that went from hard to impossible in pvp.

Sure when your 60 and epic'd with VP or Zord gear you can annoy some people but most blues can even escape you. All the reasons why I quit mine and use him as a gear collector.

[runlvlzero]

Bards are annoying to kill. Is that not enough for you?

[Swyft]

Bards are annoying to kill. Is that not enough for you?

thank's for being a troll, wizards are annoying to kill with yonder and gate but they can also kill other people so my answer is NO!

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

would place bards in top 3 classes here because of highsun(as silly and stupid as tstaff) and the fact that denon's bereavement lands all the time

[Swyft]

would place bards in top 3 classes here because of highsun(as silly and stupid as tstaff) and the fact that denon's bereavement lands all the time

Highsun has a range 75 and literally shadowsteps you away from the bard so you can get about any spell in the game off before the bard closes in range of highsun again.

I don't understand how this spell is such a problem when it only strips off buffs and can only be used during the day, I've had bards chain this on over and over and it did absolutely nothing but make me rebuff.

Denon's is poison based and necro's resist it all the time, you would need literally 59+ epic and skean to pvp with denon's. I just don't know of any other class in the game that has to wait till 59 to pvp and needs so much to do dmg. But whatever because highsun lands everyone will ignore all the nerfs done to this class. Yea top 3 and couldn't literally get enough players to compete in best of the best I bet you wont' have that problem with any other top 3 pvp class.

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

a bard can lock down any caster and there is literally nothing they can do about it because of highsun

denon's bereavement never landed on live

you make it sound like it's hard to get level 59 with a bard

this entire server is about highsun, tstaffs, and skeans

guess you missed the memo

[gloinz]

confirmed swyft has zero clue how to play his class

[Awwalike]

swift u can't even use highsun yet aren't you 52

[Tomato King6]

swift going to cry regardless.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

On live the Bard was easily ranked at the bottom of any pvp ladder during the Kunark/Vellious era. But here there are some additional nerf's that literally cripple the class, have no fear I will elaborate breaking down live from p99.

Live: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell would charm an npc's up to level 51 for up to 1 min, and took 60 mana

Project 1999: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell works exactly like it's lower lvl version Solon' song of Siren's last up to 3 ticks, but still takes the mana. This is utterly useless in pvp, due to the bug on pets that makes me be right next to my opponent to make my pet attack them.

Live: Selo's Accelerando

On live in 1999 each tick of this spell removed snare or root's applied.

Project 1999: Selo's Accelerando

Here it does not lol.

Live: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

Did not suffer a 33% reduction on Dmg. There almost worthless as it is, easily dispelled and landed poorly on live.

Project 1999: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

All equally worthless but here they suffer the 33% dmg reduction and still land poorly.

Live: Highsun

Landed poorly had crap range, only useable outdoors and at daytime.

Project 1999:

Lands on everyone still can only be used outdoors or at daytime.

So for all those con's I get the ability to shadowstep my target away from me strip two buffs/stun for less than a second during the daytime or in certain zones. Then add in Unlimited range Pillar's, And unresistable earth pets and you get a class that went from hard to impossible in pvp.

Sure when your 60 and epic'd with VP or Zord gear you can annoy some people but most blues can even escape you. All the reasons why I quit mine and use him as a gear collector.

complains about p99 mechanics; fails to provide any proof except anecdotal bullshit from 12 years ago. shits vlassic.

[Nirgon]

this entire server is about highsun, tstaffs, and skeans


I suggest picking cleric or a class that can do one of the above.

[Asap]

I liked the part where you posted all the evidence

[Faerie]

On live the Bard was easily ranked at the bottom of any pvp ladder during the Kunark/Vellious era.

What game were you playing? :O

[Stasis]

I don't recall anyone ever complaining about Highsun or T-staffs or Skeans on live.

Seems like a lot of people are mad that my guild is winning. It must suck to not get the things you want. Don't be jealous.

[Nirgon]

I distinctly recall killing the first person Kringe skeaned and both of us laughing saying "this is stupid".

People fully buffed in diamond resist gear didn't get stunned, even by skeans.

T-staff is open for debate, because it is impossibly rare to find one on eqmac (imagine that, a kunark ultra rare from a dungeon actually ultra rare).

Highsun? nigplease.

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

tstaff is not open for debate

nerf it into the ground, along with other silly stupid shit like skean, highsun, golem wands, trak teeth, etc. along with fixing the resist system if you want to see meaningful pvp on this server

[Nirgon]

It is open to debate as far as final proof to get it changed.

Not whether or not it causes insta wins :P.

[runlvlzero]

Golem wands should stay in... 4 real... thats not OP lol Tstaff I have seen people die with tstaffs in game. Not impossible to beat... but I'm in favor of it getting nerfed if it makes everyone feel better.

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

nothing wrong with removing every single buff on any class instantly

agree there

[Swyft]

Everyone who actually played live in 1999 knows everything I stated was 100% True. I could provide proof that it worked exactly as I stated but WHY? lil fanboys don't want proof they want to flame and use personal attacks instead of logic or reason.

Everyone knows t-staff, skean, highsun and resists need to be changed that they bare no resemblance to classic, but the wow kids are having it there way like there at BK.

P.S. Bard's were considered a joke pre Planes of Power when they got chant of poison and disease pre chant of poison and disease all bards did was train here they can't even train because number 1 it's illegal and number 2 your cant charm with the spell in it's current state it breaks far to fast.

IDC I've dropped the bard class I know pillars wont get fixed and this class is utterly worthless.

[Agatha]

you are all faggots who cant hack it on this server, go somewhere else.

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

highsun is worthless

l o l

[mostbitter]

sell me that bard

[Gustoo]

Server needs support and refinement. I never played a bard so I will just agree with op and say that I'll hope for the best. At the very least, a bard is a very valuable support class here.

[Faerie]

Server needs support and refinement. I never played a bard so I will just agree with op and say that I'll hope for the best. At the very least, a bard is a very valuable support class here.

Don't listen to OP in this case; he really doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Nirgon]

Bard duo'd with pretty much anything makes people leave zones

[big league chew]

yeh highsun sux thats why its the 3rd most complained about feature right behind tstaffs & me

[runlvlzero]

nothing wrong with removing every single buff on any class instantly

agree there

Do you genuinely agree? Golem wands are something everyone can use. Requires time investment camping. And AFAIK they are not rechargeable anymore. So requires more time investment again. They are no more OP than Soulfire. People without golem wands can still use pumice.

Plus you can PvP dominate the camp if your are so worried about them.

Tstaff is a permanent douchey item. And only drops for a limited number of people. Monks without it are 2cnd rate citizens and have no way to equalize themselves except trade for one.

Highsun by itself is not going to make a bard win 1v1 every single time. And you have to reach 52 to get it. Doesn't work everywhere and the enemy can counter it with their own abilities. It screws warriors and other melee but casters can gate if they don't feel like they can take a bard without buffs. *** I can understand the reason why it might need to be nerfed as a class feature for the good of the box. Since it is a free ability and coupled with bards other free abilities can lead to lamer fights. But both teams should be having a bard around for those big battles that matter. It just simplifies things into kill the healers, bard, nukers, then go for melee. Which is about where its at anyway regardless of the importance of 'highsun'.

EQ is not about balanced PvP anyway. All good encounters are group pvp. Nizzar died to group pvp in KC with me in group and the o'le eurotrash supporting <Red Dawn> nothing I know is imbalanced enough to make anyone a god when you have more then 4 people. Nizzar ganks people with trak teeth and tstaff, but he does that 1 vs 1 when people are separated. Nizzar ain't the shit, and other people have fucking tstaffs on the server.

You should consider it an honor if someone spends a charged item like trak teeth or golem wand on you to gank you. It means they don't think they can kill you any other way and must use cheap tactics.

P.S. I think Nizzar is a great guy. Don't take me using you as an example personally please =)

[Nirgon]

This is why you need to just go with the classic implementation.

Shooting for balancing every class vs every class in every scenario isn't what EQ is about. Nor should the devs here even think about spending time doing that.

There's plenty of discussion over on the Blizzard boards for WoW's arena. Should be a grand ole time if that's your thing!

I won't even provide the link because it involves going over to that site and potentially seeing something geared to the lowest common denominator. Which makes me physically ill.

[gloinz]

Highsun by itself is not going to make a bard win 1v1 every single time. And you have to reach 52 to get it. Doesn't work everywhere and the enemy can counter it with their own abilities. It screws warriors and other melee but casters can gate if they don't feel like they can take a bard without buffs. *** I can understand the reason why it might need to be nerfed as a class feature for the good of the box. Since it is a free ability and coupled with bards other free abilities can lead to lamer fights. But both teams should be having a bard around for those big battles that matter. It just simplifies things into kill the healers, bard, nukers, then go for melee. Which is about where its at anyway regardless of the importance of 'highsun'.


has anyone in this thread actually fought a bard with highsun? you realize it stuns you every 3 seconds so u aren't casting anything and especially not gate if they feel like locking you down completely

[runlvlzero]

So make the stun MR resist based.... XD That way swyft also has that to complain about...

I've been tormented by bards at all levels, but never had to deal with highsun... (bard was always on my side)

[Faerie]

This is why you need to just go with the classic implementation.

Shooting for balancing every class vs every class in every scenario isn't what EQ is about. Nor should the devs here even think about spending time doing that.

There's plenty of discussion over on the Blizzard boards for WoW's arena. Should be a grand ole time if that's your thing!

I won't even provide the link because it involves going over to that site and potentially seeing something geared to the lowest common denominator. Which makes me physically ill.

That's not much of an argument in favor of classic pvp. The same thing could be said to keep resists and stuff the way they are.

"The devs shouldn't waste their time making everything classic! EQ pvp was never about balance, so there's no reason to mess with it at all."

[Nirgon]

They should make the resists classic along with everything else.

4 lvl pvp range, item loot etc.

4 lvls would be a great quick fix.

Solb/perma not longer raid zones too =).

[Faerie]

8 level range was classic.

[Nizzarr]

OP is an idiot.

bard dots never landed before occlusion. bards were selos/resists/regen bitch. High sun never worked in pvp.

go ahead and make those bug reports so we can shit on you there too.

[runlvlzero]

I mostly agree with Nirgon... here. And Nizzar =)

[Nirgon]

Selo's with an instrument did overwrite root/snare for a very long time tho.

[Rythm]

Also bard charm should poof mage/necro pets. This is a classic feature. Also bards are fine. The main thing is NOT to fall into the boat in The Overthere and die to Tyrionn.

[SamwiseRed]

i thought the one min charm was luclin or pop.

[SamwiseRed]

8 level range was classic.

ya 4 up and 4 down, not 8 up and 8 down (16 level range)

[Faerie]

ya 4 up and 4 down, not 8 up and 8 down (16 level range)

Was always the 16 for me :P

Scaling system we have now I think is a happy medium between RZ and VZ classic.

[GoodGuyAmes]

A level 60 being able to attack a level 52 is a little gay but it could be way worse and there are many more important things that need to be addressed before the level range.

[Nirgon]

The 8-16 level range implied you had a team of people who HAD to have your back. Well, they didn't have to, as evident of why these servers failed because of cross teaming.

FFA was 4 levels for a reason. Designed completely intentionally.

[GoodGuyAmes]

Teams really would of been a great thing for this server, Too bad.

[Swyft]

OP is an idiot.

bard dots never landed before occlusion. bards were selos/resists/regen bitch. High sun never worked in pvp.

go ahead and make those bug reports so we can shit on you there too.

chants land like classic you hacking faggot, watched them resisted over and over again and resist cap was raised in vellious hence occlusion.

If your fire or cold are anywhere around 140+ chants get resisted like a mfer. was the same way on live as it is here. Same for denons and brusco's with mr.

Atleast on live they did full dmg not 33% less. I'm not a fag like you I spend my time pvping ALONE and i'm not highsuning anyone to death so I'd rather everything be like live classic.

You don't know what live classic pvp is because your bitch ass hid in dungeons and behind 30 other players on sullon and never even engaged in pvp.

[heartbrand]

I tried to read your first sentence that began with, "they land classic..." five times, but I still can't read it in a way that makes it into a legible sentence, at least not in English.

[Nirgon]

I'd rather everything be like live classic.

[Swyft]

has anyone in this thread actually fought a bard with highsun? you realize it stuns you every 3 seconds so u aren't casting anything and especially not gate if they feel like locking you down completely

As a wizard you should destroy bards highsun stuns every 3 seconds it also has 75 range and shadowsteps you. So unless you are going nowhere every shadowstep, bard still has to run in close after highsun to re-highsun which should give you enough time to draught.

There's also other spells in your arsenal that allow wizards to destroy a bard unles they have partners with them. I killed every bard on the server on sullon zek sucks you don't know your own class but I already knew that about you.

[Nirgon]

Bard with epic + skean spamming highsun and denon's is pretty hard to land a spell thru pal (well, here it is).

[gloinz]

As a wizard you should destroy bards highsun stuns every 3 seconds it also has 75 range and shadowsteps you. So unless you are going nowhere every shadowstep, bard still has to run in close after highsun to re-highsun which should give you enough time to draught.

There's also other spells in your arsenal that allow wizards to destroy a bard unles they have partners with them. I killed every bard on the server on sullon zek sucks you don't know your own class but I already knew that about you.


hey dawg i know ur bad as a bard hence why you made this thread im not questioning that

competent bards however can use highsun to kill any caster on the server barring a mage mayb

[Swyft]

hey dawg i know ur bad as a bard hence why you made this thread im not questioning that

competent bards however can use highsun to kill any caster on the server barring a mage mayb

Honestly right now I could embarrass the fuck out of you by telling you exactly how you kill a bard with a wizard thru denons thru highsun. skean like tstaff always a problem but barring skean procs definitely could rip a bard to shreds with this ruleset and all your spells landing like lures of fire and cold line.

But I'm not here to tell you how to play your class, I wont tell any of you how it's done but shit was done on live daily on Rallos and Sullon when your fire and cold spells were all a MAYBE for landing and not the sure thing that they are here.

P.S. I don't have highsun, nor would I spam it to beat people if I did. If you use highsun to win your cheating in my mind because in 1999 that shit didn't work. All i'm asking for is classic bard, to play real EQ not spam pillar of frost(unlimited range exploit) and rely on instant gate pots and conflag wands like a weak blue player such as yourself does to pvp. I want 1999 pvp not some badly coded version that allows blues to easy zerg pvp and win by numbers and exploits/hacks instead of skill.

[gloinz]

Honestly right now I could embarrass the fuck out of you by telling you exactly how you kill a bard with a wizard thru denons thru highsun. skean like tstaff always a problem but barring skean procs definitely could rip a bard to shreds with this ruleset and all your spells landing like lures of fire and cold line.
.

i'd take your advice but...

P.S. I don't have highsun,

so you made a thread about bard balance when you don't even have all the abilities of a bard that's like an enchanter bitching when they don't have dispell or rapture

ur a funny guy in the dumb way

[Sirken]

On live the Bard was easily ranked at the bottom of any pvp ladder during the Kunark/Vellious era. But here there are some additional nerf's that literally cripple the class, have no fear I will elaborate breaking down live from p99.

Live: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell would charm an npc's up to level 51 for up to 1 min, and took 60 mana

Project 1999: Solon's Bewitching Bravura

This spell works exactly like it's lower lvl version Solon' song of Siren's last up to 3 ticks, but still takes the mana. This is utterly useless in pvp, due to the bug on pets that makes me be right next to my opponent to make my pet attack them.

Live: Selo's Accelerando

On live in 1999 each tick of this spell removed snare or root's applied.

Project 1999: Selo's Accelerando

Here it does not lol.

Live: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

Did not suffer a 33% reduction on Dmg. There almost worthless as it is, easily dispelled and landed poorly on live.

Project 1999: Chant of Frost, Chant of Flame, Fufil's Curtailing Chant, Brusco's Bombastic Bellow,and Denon's Desperate Dirge.

All equally worthless but here they suffer the 33% dmg reduction and still land poorly.

Live: Highsun

Landed poorly had crap range, only useable outdoors and at daytime.

Project 1999:

Lands on everyone still can only be used outdoors or at daytime.

So for all those con's I get the ability to shadowstep my target away from me strip two buffs/stun for less than a second during the daytime or in certain zones. Then add in Unlimited range Pillar's, And unresistable earth pets and you get a class that went from hard to impossible in pvp.

Sure when your 60 and epic'd with VP or Zord gear you can annoy some people but most blues can even escape you. All the reasons why I quit mine and use him as a gear collector.

find proof, send to nilbog.

[Swyft]

i'd take your advice but...



so you made a thread about bard balance when you don't even have all the abilities of a bard that's like an enchanter bitching when they don't have dispell or rapture

ur a funny guy in the dumb way

I don't consider highsun landing unresistably a bard ability, it's a broken exploit, just like the pillar of frost you exploit daily YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE IT!

Now Strip enchantment and Rapture are enchanter abilities, but Highsun a daytime only spell that never landed on live I don't count as a Bard ability.

Here's Highsun

Description


1: Cancel Magic (9)
2: Cancel Magic (9)
3: Stun (1.00 sec)
4: Shadowstep



Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View


Mana: 0 Skill: Wind
Casting Time: 3 Recast Time: 0
Fizzle Time: 0 Resist: Magic
Range: 75 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Fizzle Adj: 28
Deletable: Yes Interruptable: Yes
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Category: Shadow Step Source: Live 05/23

^Notice MR based no Modifer which =120-140 mr zero chance of landing just like a wizard casting tishan's clash Good luck


Solon's charm is broken duration is suppoused to be a min you can just check zam's and see that, it's currently set to 3 ticks which=18 secs.

Selo's did break root and snare in 1999 I can also provide evidence of that.

Here's accounts of player's talking about it
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Root?
Has anyone tested Accelerando and Chain since the latest patch to see if they still break root? A druid site was reporting that snare no longer does, which... John Kim
kim@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx Send Email Jul 30, 1999
8:13 pm
Re: Root?
Actually John, I spent last night in HighHold fighting gnolls, and yes, Selo's still breaks root outdoors at least. Don't have chain yet and haven't tried... Michal Hobson
given@xxx.xxxx Send Email Jul 31, 1999
2:15 am
Re: Root?
I used Selos to break a root just yesterday. Outside - fighting ghouls - got rooted and party member (a druid) also rooted - so I fired off Selos and we both... James Schuldes
jgs@xxx.xxx.xxxx Send Email Aug 1, 1999
2:29 pm
Re: Root?
i tried breaking root with selos in lower guk. it does NOT break root indoors anymore. never tried using chain to break root though. Shada Silverleaf, Level... Garramone, Michael (C...
Michael.Garramone@xxx... Send Email Aug 1, 1999
7:39 pm
Re: Root?
Last night I tested out Accelerando vs root and it still works. I still can see the root Icon but I can move. Syren Wind of Rathe ... From: John Kim... CMai
CMai@xxx.xxxx Send Email Aug 2, 1999
3:03 pm
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________

Dot's worked crazily but here is the best they can be described...

------------------------------
September 13, 1999
------------------------------


DoT Changes:
- If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT
spell works.
- If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there
is no change to how a DoT spell works.
- If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied
(happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it
would have taken.
- DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the
monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much
damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves
for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage
then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more
then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it
would have before the patch.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Later this was changed to pvp as well not the 33% flat reduction which only effected nukes and never songs as they were already shitty.

I know wtf I'm talking about.

P.S. Thanks Sirkin I will send all of this to nilbog with a prayer

[mtb tripper]

find proof, send to nilbog.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/sw50sw8sw578.gif

[Faerie]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

[mtb tripper]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

[Nirgon]

Pretty sure bard song dots got missed by pvp damage nerf like he says

[Faerie]

Pretty sure bard song dots got missed by pvp damage nerf like he says

We probably shouldn't be using "it's classic!" as a reason to change anything when it comes to pvp resists, because we're not using a classic system. What we should be doing is finding ways to make our non-classic system even more balanced/fun.

So I think bard dots should land for full damage in pvp. Bards aren't dps, and I can't think of a reason for keeping their dots nerfed.

[Swyft]

I think people would have taken you more seriously if you had simply stated what you felt was wrong and why (with some evidence) instead of whining about your class needing upgraded. When you make wild claims like the bard class here being "literally crippled", you call attention to your own inadequacies, which outshine any factual merit your post may contain.

Maybe we should have responded to your post more constructively, but in our defense you made it really easy not to. That said:

Selo's broke root and snare on live, but I feel it shouldn't here for balance reasons. Bards are a hugely powerful pvp class already, and certainly don't need this change.

Highsun should be made much, much easier to resist. I don't remember if the time restrictions applied in pvp or not, but they certainly did for pve.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about the 33% dot reduction, and the evidence you posted seems to be in favor of keeping it. Or do all dots affect PCs for full damage regardless of their movement, with just bard dots being affected? Or is this a custom change that Null put in, limiting dots in pvp for balance reasons in an unclassic way?

I don't remember if the 39 charm lasted a up to full minute back then, but there were certainly times when it wouldn't last a full tick.

Do you have more evidence to back these things up?

I never asked for my class to be upgraded I asked for my class to be classic BIG DIFFERENCE

I also asked in MANY threads for highsun to be nerfed to it's correct state ya know the ability YOU ALL ARE WHINING ABOUT!

Here is Solon's
•Scroll:1.Song: Solon's Bravura

•Classes:◦Bard level 39


•Duration: 1 min
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=750
There's the link to prove it check quick facts on the right, THERE IT IS!

How the fuck you think Fansy trained anyone with spell that lasted only 1-18 secs not even possible.

Basically dot's on live did MORE DMG if you stood still and LESS DMG if you ran. Nuke's were given a 33% reduction right before Kunark release because people were getting almost one shotted by Ice Comet's.

^Neither of these two rules applied to BARD'S sony stated it was because songs weren't spells and followed there own set of rules, all 3 sec cast time 3 tick duration, no recast internal cooldown.

And Bard's were never considered a hugely powerful class on live till PoP because highsun wasn't even in a bard's slot EVER shit never landed. the only time a bard used highsun was with a shaman malo'ing or enc tashing jesus this shit was actually common knowledge on Rallos and Sullon back in the day I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

I don't have to act or respond constructively AT ALL because unlike you I have one huge thing going for me, I KNOW WTF I'M TALKING ABOUT!

[Faerie]

2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

^for the charm spell. Could have been changed after classic, and this is a pve thing so probably should be made classic. I guess Selo's should break snare, but if they can't differentiate between PC-casted snare/root they should only make it classic on blue. Snare or root from a player should not be dispelled by Selo's because it's kinda gamebreaking.

18 seconds is a long time, anyone that played a bard should know this.

Basically dot's on live did MORE DMG if you stood still and LESS DMG if you ran.

Are you sure this wasn't just for NPCs? Oh, you edited this part of your post. Do you have proof that this wasn't applied to bards? If it's true, this is a pve bug and should be posted in the pve bug forum.

I don't have to act or respond constructively AT ALL because unlike you I have one huge thing going for me, I KNOW WTF I'M TALKING ABOUT!

You don't have to, no, but if you'd like to see any of these changes made you probably should. It's great that you know what you're talking about, but you're not doing anything for your cause by being unintelligible and talking in caps.

[Swyft]

2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

^for the charm spell. Could have been changed after classic, and this is a pve thing so probably should be made classic. I guess Selo's should break snare, but if they can't differentiate between PC-casted snare/root they should only make it classic on blue. Snare or root from a player should not be dispelled by Selo's because it's kinda gamebreaking.

18 seconds is a long time, anyone that played a bard should know this.



Are you sure this wasn't just for NPCs?



You don't have to, no, but if you'd like to see any of these changes made you probably should. It's great that you know what you're talking about, but you're not doing anything for your cause by being unintelligible and talking in caps.

Your talking about balance, I'm talking about classic, if you Nerf Highsun to it's correct state of landing and Leave pillar of frost unlimited range you might as well delete the bard class because you just ended any chance of them pvping solo.

18 seconds seems like a long time BUT not when your charming in pvp, I have to grab the mob and even tho I'm fast the mob is not, then I have to run to the player and get close enough for my mob to run after him when I press pet attack. Now in 18 seconds that= 1-2 swings of mob before he's back on me, IF he even reaches the target. And no the spell was never changed it always worked that way up to 1 min duration could break at any time and Enchanters charm can last up to 20 mins so how does 1 minute seem long to you lol? It's not like I can buff the mob like enchanters can so he can just be dispelled.

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

[Faerie]

Why did you bring up Fansy? The "bardburn" bug he abused in RV needed the charmed NPC to stay in agro range of PoD. Running doesn't really come into play there.

Your talking about balance, I'm talking about classic, if you Nerf Highsun to it's correct state of landing and Leave pillar of frost unlimited range you might as well delete the bard class because you just ended any chance of them pvping solo.

Sounds like we're both talking about balance. In an ideal world, Highsun and AE nuke range would both be fixed. Bards would not be made useless if they were fixed first, though. Stop with the alarmist rhetoric.

18 seconds seems like a long time BUT not when your charming in pvp, I have to grab the mob and even tho I'm fast the mob is not, then I have to run to the player and get close enough for my mob to run after him when I press pet attack. Now in 18 seconds that= 1-2 swings of mob before he's back on me, IF he even reaches the target. And no the spell was never changed it always worked that way up to 1 min duration could break at any time and Enchanters charm can last up to 20 mins so how does 1 minute seem long to you lol? It's not like I can buff the mob like enchanters can so he can just be dispelled.

NPCs don't have to stay charmed for you to pull them around zones. And it really shouldn't be simple for a bard to charm something for use in pvp, considering they have tools like Selo's, the ability to cast while moving, mez, snare, and a 3 second cast time charm. I think maybe even if this song lasted up to 1 minute in classic, it should remain 18 seconds here. With an enchanter you can dispell their charm and it quickly becomes an ordeal for them to get control of things again, but with a bard the process of re-charming is much simpler.

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

I haven't really seen many bards here, but each time I did in a 1v1 setting they locked me down with mez or stuns and had no need to charm. Why risk training yourself when you'll win regardless?

/pet attack range should be longer, but this is a pve and pvp change, and affects all pet classes.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about 39 charm always being 1 minute in classic. I don't care enough to look for proof because it doesn't really change the effectiveness of the spell much at all in practice (even for PvE), but I bet if you could find clear evidence of it and write up a bug report without insulting him, nilbog would change it.

[Reddi who?]

complains about p99 mechanics; fails to provide any proof except anecdotal bullshit from 12 years ago. shits vlassic.

[Swyft]

Why did you bring up Fansy? The "bardburn" bug he abused in RV needed the charmed NPC to stay in agro range of PoD. Running doesn't really come into play there.



Sounds like we're both talking about balance. In an ideal world, Highsun and AE nuke range would both be fixed. Bards would not be made useless if they were fixed first, though. Stop with the alarmist rhetoric.



NPCs don't have to stay charmed for you to pull them around zones. And it really shouldn't be simple for a bard to charm something for use in pvp, considering they have tools like Selo's, the ability to cast while moving, mez, snare, and a 3 second cast time charm. I think maybe even if this song lasted up to 1 minute in classic, it should remain 18 seconds here. With an enchanter you can dispell their charm and it quickly becomes an ordeal for them to get control of things again, but with a bard the process of re-charming is much simpler.



I haven't really seen many bards here, but each time I did in a 1v1 setting they locked me down with mez or stuns and had no need to charm. Why risk training yourself when you'll win regardless?

/pet attack range should be longer, but this is a pve and pvp change, and affects all pet classes.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about 39 charm always being 1 minute in classic. I don't care enough to look for proof because it doesn't really change the effectiveness of the spell much at all in practice (even for PvE), but I bet if you could find clear evidence of it and write up a bug report without insulting him, nilbog would change it.

Fansy used his faction in RV for rogue trainer but he trained with Sand Giants in Oasis all the time.
http://www.notacult.com/images/fansy5.jpg
Here's a photo of it

I had to port into RV atleast 3 times a day to kill Fansy with my DE wizard Syft, he'd whine to me in tell's I was a hacker when I cold rooted him with

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=2554

lol after the root landed one sols icy spear killed him everytime.

P.S. why do you change my words around I said they'd be useless if you left Pillar's and Druid lightning unlimited range, that's not alarmist that's a fact Bard's rely on kiting in pvp without high sun you give people unlimited range spells and might as well delete the class from pvp that's just a fact. Bard's will also be a lot weaker when players can DUCK with spells and i'd like to see that added as well like it was in vellious. Timing your spells is HUGE vs Bards in pvp and you cant do that when you can't duck/cancel spellcasting.

But basically your for nerfing highsun but against giving them anything else they had in live lol. I'm for everything classic but not adding selo's breaking snare root yea I can see why they'd leave that out but nerfing the chants/nukes no way they land like shit and do little dmg as it is.