not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I am just making an observation. I just play my lvl 30 enchanter, and I'm fairly decent, and people of course talk about the game as we play.

Not a single person has told me to plan on raiding, or to look forward to it, or to even bother. They have, in fact, told me above all get it out of my head this server is worth anything once you are done just adventuring and doing some exp'ing.

Not a single person. I am assuming some of the people I have played with are alts in the end game, too.

Just an observation. Word of mouth is all bad. Call them haters, call them losers, but I'm actually speaking to the GM's: that is your idea of a server that is going to thrive? One with a reputation of having a completely botched end game?

Because at a certain point, it is not "whining" -- it becomes fact.

Not a single person.

[Tecmos Deception]

I hate you.

[Safon]

Server has been thriving for years already, so mission accomplished on a successful box. There are casual raid guilds that do the planes and occasional dragon/demi boss, but yea if you want to hit the biggest and baddest targets you need to join TMO pretty much

I should add that the devs are working on a potential simulated patch day server repop system, so that would help open the raid scene up immensely if implemented

[Tecmos Deception]

I mean, seriously dude. You're complaining about a part of the game that you have only heard of through the grapevine over the course of 30 levels. About a part of the game that you are a long time from potentially having a personal stake in. About a tiny, tiny part of the game.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I mean, seriously dude. You're complaining about a part of the game that you have only heard of through the grapevine over the course of 30 levels. About a part of the game that you are a long time from potentially having a personal stake in. About a tiny, tiny part of the game.


that was a laughably weak response.

Really Tecmos, are you retarded? If so, I will let it slide, if you reply "I am a halfwit of the highest order."

Plus, I want a pic of you eating dinner while wearing an eyepatch and holding a trident.

That is how stupid your comment was Tecmos.

[quido]

You should petition the server staff and ask them to implement a server-wide rotation.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

oops, sorry, maybe you meant this for the SWTOR baords?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

not a single person


that is all I am saying.

[Safon]

Read what I posted

[Rooj]

People tend to not realize that in every MMO, end-game raiders are somewhat of a minority... There are way more people leveling up than there are raiding, at any given time.

[Tecmos Deception]

I hate you.

[quido]

You should post more after being proven to be a cheating faggot.

you should find a good doctor, psycho boy

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Read what I posted

/agree safon. that is what the players i've been with have meant. low end raiding is fun, and I plan on it. Plus, I am not saying "this does not make sense" -- I think on another thread someone posted, whoever could solve this problem wopuld become a millionaire.

But the end game is borked. That is the word on the street, is all I said. I am a wealthy trust fund baby, so I will just buy my way into the inner circle, the way Tecmos did, but I just feel for the game, ya know?

[Tecmos Deception]

so I will just buy my way into the inner circle, the way Tecmos did

Lol. This kid.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Hey Sadre, plan on raiding.

[Tecmos Deception]

But the end game is borked. That is the word on the street, is all I said.

Actually you said that and then proceeded to call out the staff on an unsuccessful server.

[Hasbinbad]

You should petition the server staff and ask them to implement a server-wide rotation.

[feanan]

Best bet is to hope velious comes out before you max level, and see what the raid scene is like at that time.

Cause, yeah, as the server is now, raiding isn't fun. I can't imagine its fun for TMO either, but at least they get the loot.

[Faerie Blossom]

Raiding is a decision you have to make. So plan on it if you intend to raid, otherwise don't.

If you're really upset about the raid competition here, my advice would be to start on red and apply to Nihilum as soon as you are able. There's an xp bonus to make things easier, and because of the smaller population on red it is much easier to get into Nihi than it is TMO or FE.

[quido]

I can't imagine its fun for TMO either, but at least they get the loot.

It's super fun, bro - what are you talking about?

AH MER GERD, ITS SUCH A CHORE, THATS WHY I VOLUNTARILY AND GLADLY DO IT

Win or lose, it's fun raiding and being a part of a guild full of great people =)

[Bazia]

having 5 toons u cant play all parked at varying raid mobs because of variance is fun

specifically the part where u have to grind exp to 60 multiple times or farm for months to buy multiple toons

get back on red jeremy fuk

[Faerie Blossom]

get back on red jeremy fuk

[Reguiy]

Most the raiders will be getting plvld, or solo leveling with all their twink gear, so they can get to 60 quickly and raid. People who you group with probably are leveling for fun and are casual, so of course they wouldn't suggest raiding. Some people like it, some people don't. Did I answer your question?

[Clark]

No speakey no engrish

[Ephirith]

I deserve to play 5 hours a week and get dragon loot. This is Everquest of course-- the most casualest of MMOs.

After all, anyone who plays more than me is a basement gollum.

[Sarius]

Lol I love that attitude. The same neck-beards trying to justify their monopoly as other people lacking commitment. Shits classic!

[Tecmos Deception]

Lol I love that attitude. The same neck-beards trying to justify their monopoly as other people lacking commitment. Shits classic!

Yeah, that sounds like Ephirith :rolleyes:

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Hey Sadre, plan on raiding.

I always raid, if I want to. You think I'm new on the block?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

having 5 toons u cant play all parked at varying raid mobs because of variance is fun

specifically the part where u have to grind exp to 60 multiple times or farm for months to buy multiple toons

get back on red jeremy fuk

am i allowed to say, "win"?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Most the raiders will be getting plvld, or solo leveling with all their twink gear, so they can get to 60 quickly and raid. People who you group with probably are leveling for fun and are casual, so of course they wouldn't suggest raiding. Some people like it, some people don't. Did I answer your question?

yeah, you did. well, I'm having fun with those people then.

but my original comment still stands. everyone says, do not bother raiding except to get in line.

But, barring that, look me up. I can play my class and can adventure and do not bitch. This thread is a great reference for any guild who wants to make the argument, the end game guilds are a joke btw.

I am not sure you see that clearly, cuz you just made the point and did not see you did. Bon voyage.

sadre/ casual raider since 1999 whut?

[enr4ged]

Yeah, the raid scene is truly pathetic on this server. You can't even get a decent shot at naggy because hes perma camped by TMO alts. For fucks sake... I started leveling on this server perhaps thinking I could relive a level 52 pug raid or even guild raid on naggy at some point, only to get to that level and realize it was never going to happen.

Then you get to 60 and by that time you realize you aren't going to even attempt Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, any kunark dragon or VP unless you want to resort to the grossly idiotic account buying, alt parking immature crap fest that is facilitated by TMO/FE, because all they want to do is compete with each other like some childish sibling rivalry on who can respond to an email faster, remember which alt they have camped at said place, and then train each other more efficiently.

This server needs to do something about it quick, because people like me who advertised the crap out of this server to help get many people playing, supporting the leveling community and new players, want to attempt an occasional boss with their guild a couple times a week is growing extremely bored and tired of the childish state of raiding and about ready to call it quits.

[Furniture]

lol i cant help but comment at how much of an idiot the OP is, if you want raid bosses you need to compete or join a high end guild, if thats too hard for you then fuck off lol

[Furniture]

Server has been thriving for years already, so mission accomplished on a successful box. There are casual raid guilds that do the planes and occasional dragon/demi boss, but yea if you want to hit the biggest and baddest targets you need to join TMO pretty much

I should add that the devs are working on a potential simulated patch day server repop system, so that would help open the raid scene up immensely if implemented

[Tiggles]

Yeah, the raid scene is truly pathetic on this server. You can't even get a decent shot at naggy because hes perma camped by TMO alts. For fucks sake... I started leveling on this server perhaps thinking I could relive a level 52 pug raid or even guild raid on naggy at some point, only to get to that level and realize it was never going to happen.

Then you get to 60 and by that time you realize you aren't going to even attempt Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, any kunark dragon or VP unless you want to resort to the grossly idiotic account buying, alt parking immature crap fest that is facilitated by TMO/FE, because all they want to do is compete with each other like some childish sibling rivalry on who can respond to an email faster, remember which alt they have camped at said place, and then train each other more efficiently.

This server needs to do something about it quick, because people like me who advertised the crap out of this server to help get many people playing, supporting the leveling community and new players, want to attempt an occasional boss with their guild a couple times a week is growing extremely bored and tired of the childish state of raiding and about ready to call it quits.

The server needs less casual trash like you

[Kagatob]

The server needs less casual trash like you

Are you capable of posting something besides "bla bla casual trash bla bla" when responding to people outside of FE/TMO? Nobody's impressed bro.

[fuark]

It's impossible to reply to these threads without sounding like a whining bitch who actually has a career/friends/other things they do in real life, works fulltime, and can't dedicate hours of gameplay per night to a computer game and therefore ends up jealous and calling everyone in the top raiding guilds basement dwellers and/or people who have entirely too much time on their hands (for whatever reason) and thinking god only knows how some of you are able to play this game as much as you do.

It's also impossible to reply if you're a top end raider and not see everyone who isn't as advanced as you as simply entitled red diaper doper babies who want your dragon and god loot yet won't compete for them on your level.

So do what the vast majority of us do... roll a solo class. Level up to 60. Then proceed to enjoy doing Sky, Royals, and Ragefire on weekends for a very long time.

On a side note, sitting on a train reading these forums is as entertaining as actually playing the game itself.

[enr4ged]

The server needs less casual trash like you

The server needs less scumbags like 95% of the players in TMO and FE who want to spend 24 hours of their day devoted to ruining the play experience for the entire server.

There's a difference between being skilled at what you do and then there's being douche bags to the community.

[Rooj]

I can't speak for other servers, but mine was never about crappy PVE competition. When a raid mob was up or needed, people came together regardless of guild, class, or level to get things done. I guess I just had a much more pleasant experience on classic EQ than some people did. I mean I had 2 epics without ever being in a guild... That would probably never happen on P99.

[Kagatob]

I can't speak for other servers, but mine was never about crappy PVE competition. When a raid mob was up or needed, people came together regardless of guild, class, or level to get things done. I guess I just had a much more pleasant experience on classic EQ than some people did. I mean I had 2 epics without ever being in a guild... That would probably never happen on P99.

TMO sells epics all of the time, it's one of their greatest cash cows outside from VP keys/loot rights.

[Sarius]

Sure it would...farm seafuries and roll two rogues.

On another note, it is a damn shame that the GM's have a laissez faire attitude when it comes to raiding. This server could be a much more enjoyable place for 90% of the players.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

lol i cant help but comment at how much of an idiot the OP is, if you want raid bosses you need to compete or join a high end guild, if thats too hard for you then fuck off lol


wow. i had not realized i needed to compete. just. wow.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The server needs less casual trash like you

actually, serious? if this is the angle, /agree

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

It's impossible to reply to these threads without sounding like a whining bitch who actually has a career/friends/other things they do in real life, works fulltime, and can't dedicate hours of gameplay per night to a computer game and therefore ends up jealous and calling everyone in the top raiding guilds basement dwellers and/or people who have entirely too much time on their hands (for whatever reason) and thinking god only knows how some of you are able to play this game as much as you do.

It's also impossible to reply if you're a top end raider and not see everyone who isn't as advanced as you as simply entitled red diaper doper babies who want your dragon and god loot yet won't compete for them on your level.

So do what the vast majority of us do... roll a solo class. Level up to 60. Then proceed to enjoy doing Sky, Royals, and Ragefire on weekends for a very long time.

On a side note, sitting on a train reading these forums is as entertaining as actually playing the game itself.

I am fairly sure, if you spend a weekend doing some pretty intense yoga with this dude, you WILL see a difference in how you deal with life.

[Nirgon]

I am just making an observation. I just play my lvl 30 enchanter, and I'm fairly decent, and people of course talk about the game as we play.

Not a single person has told me to plan on raiding, or to look forward to it, or to even bother. They have, in fact, told me above all get it out of my head this server is worth anything once you are done just adventuring and doing some exp'ing.

Not a single person. I am assuming some of the people I have played with are alts in the end game, too.

Just an observation. Word of mouth is all bad. Call them haters, call them losers, but I'm actually speaking to the GM's: that is your idea of a server that is going to thrive? One with a reputation of having a completely botched end game?

Because at a certain point, it is not "whining" -- it becomes fact.

Not a single person.

You should start farming up a resist set and buying good gear and spells for your enchanter so you can raid. Look forward to it.

First.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Yeah, the raid scene is truly pathetic on this server. You can't even get a decent shot at naggy because hes perma camped by TMO alts. For fucks sake... I started leveling on this server perhaps thinking I could relive a level 52 pug raid or even guild raid on naggy at some point, only to get to that level and realize it was never going to happen.

Then you get to 60 and by that time you realize you aren't going to even attempt Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, any kunark dragon or VP unless you want to resort to the grossly idiotic account buying, alt parking immature crap fest that is facilitated by TMO/FE, because all they want to do is compete with each other like some childish sibling rivalry on who can respond to an email faster, remember which alt they have camped at said place, and then train each other more efficiently.

This server needs to do something about it quick, because people like me who advertised the crap out of this server to help get many people playing, supporting the leveling community and new players, want to attempt an occasional boss with their guild a couple times a week is growing extremely bored and tired of the childish state of raiding and about ready to call it quits.

hater

amirite?

[Furniture]

I'm not in the raid scene, but with 500+ people wanting to kill the same boss that only spawns weekly, do you really want a rotation? If people are willing to put in the devotion and effort to get 40+ people to the boss once it spawns, let them fucking have it, im sure as hell not putting in that kind of effort unless I really want the drops

I also recall that Tiggles has posted a few months back that if any lesser guild wants a shot at a raid target to let them know in advance, i dont know if anyone took them up on the offer but I doubt anybody did

[Furniture]

by the way did the OP really only get level 30 on an enchanter in his 6 months on the server? id be a whiny bitch and blame everyone else too if I were you id suppose

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You should start farming up a resist set and buying good gear and spells for your enchanter so you can raid. Look forward to it.

First.

this is how youy shut down a Sadre post. Do not argue with me. Grant me my premises, and end it. I cannot deal with this kind of answer. I will shut up everytime. The gambit of a Sadre post is, Im am pointing out a flaw. Deny the flaw; shut down Sadre.

[Kagatob]

I also recall that Tiggles has posted a few months back that if any lesser guild wants a shot at a raid target to let them know in advance, i dont know if anyone took them up on the offer but I doubt anybody did

If you took him seriously you have lost and they have won.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

to furniture: you really do not want to e-peen with me. Mine is long, flaccid, pale, underfoot, squishy, and gross.

[August]

This is fun when I'm not the target.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This is fun when I'm not the target.

don't get me started on YOU cafe.

(j/k -- pardons plz?)

[bubur]

another quality post form Sadre

hey I am looking forward to raiding, cheers

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

another quality post form Sadre

hey I am looking forward to raiding, cheers

is that an invite?

[Herpa Derp]

Everyone makes it seem like doing any end game content is completely out of the question. I don't see how you wont have to work for it like you would have had to for any raiding guild in on live.

[Kagatob]

Everyone makes it seem like doing any end game content is completely out of the question. I don't see how you wont have to work for it like you would have had to for any raiding guild in on live.

On live, once you got the levels in order you were required to go to a certain number of scheduled raids in a given period of time, the scheduled raids would be a short list of mobs that would generate the greatest gain for the guild as a whole in regards to time spent, other mobs were attacked and killed if the numbers happened to be available and were actually ran to because most players had one main and at most a single alt of level.

On project 1999 they have raid attendance % which while similar on paper in reality means that you literally need to be "on call" in order to make enough raids because every mob on the server is in contention and to be considered a "raiding guild" you need to have an individual raid force camped at every individual target, once it's found that a target has spawned (each 'raid guild' has 24 hour tracking on said targets) it's not a race to clear to and set up for the boss, it's a race to see who's pre-packaged raid force can log in first.

Dedicating your life to something and 'working for' something are not synonymous regardless of how much the neckbeards would like you to believe such.

[Herpa Derp]

On live, once you got the levels in order you were required to go to a certain number of scheduled raids in a given period of time, the scheduled raids would be a short list of mobs that would generate the greatest gain for the guild as a whole in regards to time spent, other mobs were attacked and killed if the numbers happened to be available and were actually ran to because most players had one main and at most a single alt of level.

On project 1999 they have raid attendance % which while similar on paper in reality means that you literally need to be "on call" in order to make enough raids because every mob on the server is in contention and to be considered a "raiding guild" you need to have an individual raid force camped at every individual target, once it's found that a target has spawned (each 'raid guild' has 24 hour tracking on said targets) it's not a race to clear to and set up for the boss, it's a race to see who's pre-packaged raid force can log in first.

Dedicating your life to something and 'working for' something are not synonymous regardless of how much the neckbeards would like you to believe such.

I'm well aware the grip that TMO has on the high end of the raiding target spectrum, there are some other mobs that they don't poopsock that are worth the time to go after. I'm not saying there's a lot of them but is it also impossible to get into TMO? I highly doubt every last one of their raiders has six alts for camping.

This is from an outside perspective and I could be totally wrong but it'll always come down to your play style and how much time you can invest into the game. I'm not saying it's fair to rule out fully casuals that want to raid but that's the effect of releasing an emulator of an old ass game after a plethora of MMO's with raid content have been released. People are going to be conditioned from the raiding environments of the newer games and it's not going to be the same as it was in classic.

I don't think it's ok, nor am I elated about it but there's nothing that can really be done about it sans GM intervention or if people want to self enforce rotation. If you have the time and the willpower you can raid, but in many of the cases I've found you can't be a top end raider in any game and have a life and a job.

[Kagatob]

Here's another thing that isn't the same as classic. On the 3 live servers I've been on as well as the other emulated server I had raided in, there wasn't nearly the amount of hate and disdain for (or from, looking at people like Tiggles) the top guilds that there is on this server. Fires of Heaven came close on the progression server but I'd take them in a heartbeat over TMO any day or FE on some days. :)

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

lol i cant help but comment at how much of an idiot the OP is, if you want raid bosses you need to compete or join a high end guild, if thats too hard for you then fuck off lol

[myriverse]

Raiding was always the least fun part of the game, anyway. So...

[maverixdamighty]

OP =

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT45DH-OIlPqlp5ePsxMz6l6JWBvVKcFhgGID99P-3ebkaDZ7Hp

Level up and find out for yourself instead of making your worthless posts over and over.

[Skope]

This is from an outside perspective and I could be totally wrong but it'll always come down to your play style and how much time you can invest into the game. I'm not saying it's fair to rule out fully casuals that want to raid but that's the effect of releasing an emulator of an old ass game after a plethora of MMO's with raid content have been released. People are going to be conditioned from the raiding environments of the newer games and it's not going to be the same as it was in classic.

I don't think it's ok, nor am I elated about it but there's nothing that can really be done about it sans GM intervention or if people want to self enforce rotation. If you have the time and the willpower you can raid, but in many of the cases I've found you can't be a top end raider in any game and have a life and a job.

There's a considerable difference between casuals on live and on here. Likewise, there's a significant difference between the extreme and high end here and that on live. P99 is a time sink and forces extreme and idiotic behavior (see RnF) that wasn't seen on live. Those who played in high end guilds on live would need to play (and track) exponentially longer to tackle the same targets or even have a chance at engaging them.

Therefore it isn't an EQ problem but rather specifically a P99 problem. It's the P99 rules and the GMs that have favored these methods for years while pretending to condone it, or at best turning a blind eye. It's gotten so bad that people like Tiggles and whoever the hell else from FE are going so far as to dig up peoples' names and addresses... Seriously? Meanwhile the "casuals" who were at the top of their respective servers on live would need to partake in all of this nonsense and spend an obscene amount of time (that was never required on live) to join in. Why would I want to bother? I've seen VP and NToV and have accomplished more on live with only a fraction of the time and effort that's required here. And what about the hope for reasonable change? Well, you need only ask Rogean why he decides to do a complete 180 when he promises a semblance of reasonable change that was needed years ago. Rather than getting something to address the biggest underlying issues that a vast majority of people agreed with, he decides that applying a bandaid to the problem and screwing over the largest majority of the players on the server is the better route.

Enjoy it and when you're bored just throw it away, because this is the same server and GMs who make changes to classic mechanics that affect every NPC in the game just to keep a few people from abusing third party software at a poopsockfest. If you think you can stomach the bullshit and spend a crazy amount of time on here then, yes, raiding is perfect for you. If, on the other hand, you're only here to have fun then enjoy it while you can and then throw it away.

[Shinko]

You should petition the server staff and ask them to implement a server-wide rotation.

[Chloroform]

Win or lose, it's fun raiding and being a part of a guild full of great people =)

I <3 Jeremy Irons!

[skeletoria]

OP =

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT45DH-OIlPqlp5ePsxMz6l6JWBvVKcFhgGID99P-3ebkaDZ7Hp

Level up and find out for yourself instead of making your worthless posts over and over.

Exactly my thoughts..instead of all the bitching about how OP TMO is, why not attempt to create and build up a force strong enough to compete! Something, anything is better than a post like this :x
Besides, most of the lowbies are probably alts, or new players that have never played EQ before P99.. hahaha at least that's what it seems to me seeing how shitty some of these players are around here :)

[Sarius]

The cost of competition is too high for most people. Hopefully a rotation can be worked out amongst guilds for Kunark content once Velious is released. The fact the TMO and FE still get 90% of raid targets after server repops is just sad!

[Lyra]

When I read these threads, I wonder where you were in 1999 because it wasn't playing end game Everquest.

In 1999 end game bosses were only available to the power gamers. I was there. I was an adult.

Since the average age I have encountered on this server is 28, that meant you were 14 in 1999. You may have dropped out of middle school and were playing Everquest 20 hours a day, but I doubt it. Many guilds required members to be adults.

Now if you were playing in 2003, you could kill whatever 1999 bosses you wanted to kill. We are never going to see 2003 EQ on this server.

I love this server and I love the intent. This is called "Project 1999". It's not called "Let everyone experience end game content like it was 1999"

If you want a to kill 1999 content, you can still do that ....for free....on live.

If you want something not offered on this server, the content is open source. Make the game you want.

But...If you want to fight and scratch to kill end game content almost like it was in 1999....this is the place.

almost = Remove the variance. After reading the forums to better understand the history of this server, I still can't understand how Nilbog went along with variance.

For those thinking the removal of variance will allow all of you to kill end game bosses, it won't. But...it will be classic.

As I've said before, these forums are also "classic" and are quite entertaining.

[this user was banned]

I really don't understand peoples' fascination with raiding.

If different facets of MMOs can be related to sex, then raiding is the anal sex of MMOs. It's difficult to get started with it, once you are in (a good raiding guild AKA anus) it gets easier, it's tight at first but just gets easier and routine after you've been doing it for months, you may get some gratification in the form of loot at the end of it all, but there's always someone that is butthurt over your accomplishment.

In conclusion: the OP needs to get laid.

[Sarius]

A little perverse for server chat, but made me smirk.

[Droog007]

I love this server and I love the intent. This is called "Project 1999". It's not called "Let everyone experience end game content like it was 1999"

I always sortof guessed that the intent of this server was to make the classic content of EQ available for people who missed it, or wished to revisit it.

If that experience MUST include a resident/rotating population of exclusionists who seemingly exist to do nothing but monopolize the same content year after year in order to be accurate ... then we're right on target.

Thanks for informing us - I had no idea you were an authority on the subject.

If you want a to kill 1999 content, you can still do that ....for free....on live.

You're welcome to go play for free on live as well. Why do people so enjoy lording over this content for extended periods of time? Aren't you bored yet? What does that say about you?

[Lyra]

Thanks for informing us - I had no idea you were an authority on the subject.

If I am an authority, it's because I read (research). It's all here for you to read too.

When Nilbog corrects me, I'll stand corrected.

[arsenalpow]

For every person that screams how all the batphoning, shitbaggery, training, dishonorable tactics are classic there is always another person that came from a server with rotations and a sense of decorum when it came to raiding.

The rules are laid in by Rogean, which are then enforced by Sirken & Co. If you don't like the rules find a new sandbox because it ain't changing anytime soon. I'm truly thankful that this server exists and we all know that Bog and Rogean don't hear it enough - and this comes from a person who can't fucking stand the raid rules and the children that currently occupy the scene.

[quido]

does decorum include deliberately training people because you don't like their style, chest?

[maverixdamighty]

For every person that screams how all the batphoning, shitbaggery, training, dishonorable tactics are classic there is always another person that came from a server with rotations and a sense of decorum when it came to raiding.



I'd like to see how many servers had enforced rotations versus FFA back on live. I know the two servers I played on were both entirely FFA myself.

As for all the other mess, i recall lots of training but the extent of the batphone for me back in the day was getting an aim message now and then telling me a target was up. We normally just logged on in the afternoon/night checked targets and killed them on a daily basis.

[Lyra]

For every person that screams how all the batphoning, shitbaggery, training, dishonorable tactics are classic there is always another person that came from a server with rotations and a sense of decorum when it came to raiding.

Our server did have rotations eventually, but the rotation was shared among the power gaming guilds. Friendlyfamilyguild still wasn't in the rotation.

I don't think you should give up on rotations here.

I'll add too(on my server anyway) power gamers didn't communicate on forums. They communicated in game, because that is where they were when they weren't sleeping.

[Rhuobhe]

I am here to try and do one of the things I was never able to do (VP). I will get 60 and try my best. It is not terribly important if I succeed or not.

EQC will be out sometime between today and the next decade NP

[Rhambuk]

I am here to try and do one of the things I was never able to do (VP). I will get 60 and try my best. It is not terribly important if I succeed or not.

EQC will be out sometime between today and the next decade NP

vp was the number 1 reason i started on this server. Vp is my favorite zone period, and i never got to raid it legitimately on live. If you want high end raiding, join tmo or fe. or do like me and wait until velious when VP is dead empty and casual guilds/pickups should have the opportunity.

is it ideal? no...but neither was live.

Also took a few minutes in the way back machine, i couldn't find ANY proof of a gm enforced rotation on live. Checking sony forums and class forums, a lot of servers had rotations but they were formed and upheld by the guilds in it, i found no information even hinting to gm's forcing a rotation. if only

[Sarius]

Check out Fippy Darkpaw progression server. A few live servers had rotations that were GM enforced, but they were brought about by a consensus of top raiding guilds and not a GM mandate. This would be ideal here, but is not realistic pre-velious IMO

[kotton05]

Lol we can't even rotate dojo which to me is insane.

What happened to repops? The fuck was the 3 random repops for at prime time.. When in all fairness should of happened at diff times imo. Now weeks gone by and no more repop.

GJ OP stirring this up again, I gotta say fte shouts would lessen the GM's interaction and with the extended variance pretty much all semi casual guilds just poop out...

[xarzzardorn]

lotta mad in that happy go lucky post there merkk

[kotton05]

I have my ups n downs:)

Think this sums up the thread ... Wtb velious!

[Lyra]

Lol we can't even rotate dojo which to me is insane.

Discussion should only be between the guild leaders.

A condition of membership should include a restriction of posting in RnF and anything referencing another guild on these forums.

[Millburn]

Check out Fippy Darkpaw progression server. A few live servers had rotations that were GM enforced, but they were brought about by a consensus of top raiding guilds and not a GM mandate. This would be ideal here, but is not realistic pre-velious IMO

Fippy during the time period we're at right now on this server was absolute shit. There were entire SK armies set up with MQ2 to insta-spam harmtouch the second raid targets spawned. It was the EQ version of a nuclear arms race. Maybe it all changed after I quit and left the raiding scene there but up until when I left all the top guilds were assholes blaming each other for their own cheating.

[kotton05]

Discussion should only be between the guild leaders.

A condition of membership should include a restriction of posting in RnF and anything referencing another guild on these forums.

Agreed.

I didn't meAn to rant I read what chest said and the following about rotations and got worked up.

[Sarius]

Fippy could have been much better, too bad nitwit raiders rushed the progression every 3 months because they were in a hurry to get to shit expansions

[kotton05]

Fippy could have been much better, too bad nitwit raiders rushed the progression every 3 months because they were in a hurry to get to shit expansions

What exactly unlocked each expansion, pardon my ignorance, never played on fippy.

[Itap]

What exactly unlocked each expansion, pardon my ignorance, never played on fippy.

I believe defeating certain bosses (determined by SoE) for each expansion unlocked the next expansion

[Millburn]

Fippy was time locked progression, so once certain encounters were beat it would initiate a countdown timer. Once that timer has passed the server got to vote on if the next expansion would come out or not. If it didn't pass then a new timer would be put in place before a new vote would take place.

[Sarius]

Once a certain target was killed a 3 month timer started, after which progression would be decided by a vote of all lvl 20+ characters

[Sarius]

And I was wrong...progression did not kill Fippy, it was the boxing and RaF that did.

[Millburn]

RnF was a cancer on that server for sure but I have a hard time saying if it was a symptom or a cause.

[Sarius]

Refer a friend not rants and flames =)

[Millburn]

Well I stand by my statement damnit! Haha

Refer a friend allowed for the crazy XP gain right?

[Sarius]

Yes and further encouraged people to 6 box

[Splorf22]

The simple reality is that blue is overcrowded. No criticism of Nilbog intended, but the biggest problem we have is the slow pace of releases. Kunark has been out for 2.5 years! On live Velious would have been released, then Luclin, and we would be closing in on the Planes of Power. No one would be bitching about TMO cockblocking VP because they would be busy cockblocking FE over Luclin content.

I have been on record as suggesting simultaneous repops and I think they would be fantastic for the server. But even that won't totally open up the endgame; last repop there were 300+ people online.

Velious would open up a huge amount of additional content and would help greatly . . . except that I guarantee a whole fuckton of players who aren't playing now will come back for it.

Ultimately instances probably are the only way to inflate the content to match the players (and allow all the guilds to progress all the way through Kunark without going nuts tracking/batphoning), but that's very far from the spirit of classic eq.

Again, we just have too many players for the amount of content we have. The staff has chosen to have players compete rather than enforce rotations, and they have selected tracking/batphoning as that method. You can either accept this and play around it (see: The A-Team) or drive yourself nuts making posts on the forums (well, I've done that too).

[kingsBlend]

Plan on doing whatever you want to do. Want to raid? Raid.. Kinda like that game called real life, you know?

[quido]

Zephany still mad he got rejected because everyone fucking hated him.

[August]

And I was wrong...progression did not kill Fippy, it was the boxing and RaF that did.

Fippy did not die to progression, boxing, or RaF. That conversation and circumstance defined a group of some 150-300 people, not the 3k+ that were playing.

Fippy died to platinum inflation via exploitation thru
1) fire opals
2) eggs
3) alchemy recipes

I reported the fire opal exploit myself. Eggs was widespread as well. Alchemy was the best kept secret and was the true killer. I knew several people who pumped 10+ million into the server. To give you reference, I was the richest person on Fippy pre-exploits, or, without using exploits. My mount of cash at the peak was something like 500kpp in 2 months, which is absurd. When that exploitation went wild my pile went to near useless as it suffered a degradation of a full order of magnitude of buying power. THAT is what killed Fippy.

The fact that sony's server's got hacked and kept people from logging in for several weeks was the final straw. Fippy death had absolutely nothing to do with the raid scene, at all.

[quido]

Mad? Sir, I believe it's one of the best things that has ever happened to me in a video game, and that is actually saying quite a lot. lol

pretty easy to say that now! one of the easiest "no"s we've ever had

[happyhappy]

Our server did have rotations eventually, but the rotation was shared among the power gaming guilds. Friendlyfamilyguild still wasn't in the rotation.

I don't think you should give up on rotations here.

I'll add too(on my server anyway) power gamers didn't communicate on forums. They communicated in game, because that is where they were when they weren't sleeping.

Servers with rotations, at least mine, usually let the "Friendlyfamilyguild" have their shot when asked nicely, mostly because "Friendlyfamilyguild" weren't a threat to them. They were severely underleveled, didn't know the strat, usually didn't have the required gear, much less things like resist gear or clickies, not that they would have known what to do with those. They would just sit back and watch them wipe then move in for the kill, and still get thanked for the opportunity.

That's the difference between then and now, knowledge. People playing here are not casual in the same standard as casual people were back then, simply because they read these forums, know about such things as rotations and respawn time, heck they have more 60s than most raiding guilds did back then.

Every casual raiding guild here could probably kill anything short of Gore and a few VP dragons given the uncontested opportunity, it's only logical for high end guilds to not want to risk it.

Not to mention that back then, encounters were actually "hard", fourteen years later the strats are widely known and mostly obsolete, as rushing 5 times the amount of players at a monster than the encounter was designed for will trivialize anything. On live my guild didn't have a raid roster like what we see on p99 until Ssra, and were considered a "zerg" guild. So today the only challenge that remains, what top guilds are looking for, is actually the race.

But yeah, that's just my experience on one of the 40 servers back on live.

[Lyra]

Well I quoted some stuff in the Raid Changes "poll" thread I just bumped. It didn't happen on Rodcet Nife. Rodcet Nife was one of the original servers, and up until much later the only one I played on.

Are you talking about pre-velious? December 5, 2000

[India]

When did you play on RN? I played from early 2000 thru probably 2005 and there were no rotations,, at all.

[danceparty]

OP, there is plenty of casual raiding to be done...there are several great guilds who are equipping members with planar and epics and having a blast doing it. you can be part of this pretty easily just by getting to raid level.

yes there is ferocious competition among the players making up the uber guilds for the high end content (kunark dragons, vs, gods etc) ..but they earn it by being on-line seeking it 24/7.

that shouldn't discourage anyone from leveling their toon and joining a guild that is clearing planes.

[Lyra]

When did you play on RN? I played from early 2000 thru probably 2005 and there were no rotations,, at all.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=753155

For the guy posting about the top guild on rodcet getting 90 percent of mobs before velious you are most defiantly wrong. Eastern keep got some, aod alliance got some, ancient souls some, tul Achron some, arirang some, dragon force some. You had 4 or 5 guilds constantly competing, yes trak was limited to ek, aod, and toward end ascent. Then when velious came ascent and aod alliance rotated ntov and sleeper, and later dol amroth and ek were added to rotation. It was not a forced rotation but the high end guilds worked together to not waste each others time. Rodcet characters were nimamok and later honch

That happened.

Honch was there too. And while I LOVE your teasing about him being a kid, I don't think he was.



[October 1999] Brotherhood of Steel formed mostly by BatMUD players with Glayde as the leader. Most Ascent officers will be members at one point or another (Delheru, Honch, Reia, Vesi)

Honch, Xanatax, Morbos etc form Exiled Legion (EL) to do planes outside the domination of AoD/AL

I was a girlfriend during this time fighting EQ for the attention of my boyfriend. I played. A lot. I actually played EQ longer than the relationship lasted. 1999 - 2005 (day the server merged)

[India]

If you want me to read my own post, I know what was posted. Otherwise I am not sure what you're trying to show me with that link...not being difficult, I really don't know what you want me to read :)

And to be straight to the point (about rotations)

[?] AoD/AL/EL and AD/DK negotiate a rotation, but the terms favor the more hardcore AoD/AL/EL and soon the rotation turns in to their domination

Rotations were negotiated once, and didn't last long enough to even be a blip on the history that is RN

[arsenalpow]

does decorum include deliberately training people because you don't like their style, chest?

Ya everyone knows me, premiere trainer of p99, typical BDA scum etc etc

Back to the point of the conversation, yes the leaders of each guild could talk about a rotation, but the one guild that will not agree to anything is Zeelot of TMO. The TMO leadership has established it's position and refuses to come off it.

Every. Single. Other. Guild. On. The. Server. Would be in for a rotation, TMO single handedly refuses thus spiraling the raid scene into its current cesspool. Don't blame the devs, don't blame the GMs, don't blame other guilds for not "working hard enough"* Blame Zeelot and TMO. This isn't rhetoric, this is publically stated fact by Zeelot himself.


*working harder refers to the TMO way of raiding on p99, zerg invite over all time zones, batphone all targets to pull 30+ at any time from massive roster, train/FTE snipe/lawyer/grief and do whatever it takes to get all targets, park alts fully buffed at every target, plant spies in competing guilds, stalk opposing guild members irl, foster illicit relationships with GMs, etc etc

[quido]

I was serious, Chest. You're a hypocrite and a crybaby.

[Auvdar]

If you want me to read my own post, I know what was posted. Otherwise I am not sure what you're trying to show me with that link...not being difficult, I really don't know what you want me to read :)

And to be straight to the point (about rotations)

[?] AoD/AL/EL and AD/DK negotiate a rotation, but the terms favor the more hardcore AoD/AL/EL and soon the rotation turns in to their domination

Rotations were negotiated once, and didn't last long enough to even be a blip on the history that is RN

Haven't read much of this thread since page such, but I can attest that RN (started on that server way back in 99 when vanilla came out) there was never much of any rotation... ever. The only time I even heard of rotations happenening was when RN and I wanna say Atonious Bayle merged? Or maybe that server opened and they allowed xfers I don't remember anymore.

Hell the only end game guild I kinda remember on RN was Avatars of Discord(or something like that), but I have no idea on how far they were. Never really started any hard raiding until I merged to a diff. server. But I can say I never remember any kind of rotation ever being talked about anywhere. I played with Drunken Fishermen, so you know were I was on that server :P

[arsenalpow]

I was serious, Chest. You're a hypocrite and a crybaby.

I'd love to hear an explanation for that theory Jeremy. Everything that I've said is a fact and matter of public record on these forums.

You do have a very large zerg roster to pull numbers at any time of the day while parking multiple alts fully buffed at every major raid target

Your guild has been suspended more than any other guild in the history of the server for a pile of misc offenses (training, griefing, etc)

Tiggles did have an improper relationship with Amelinda, whether it yielded any advantage for TMO is questionable

Zeelot has gone on record stating that he will not agree to a rotation

Do you have any verifiable points you'd like to make or would you rather continue lobbing accusations and opinions?

[Lyra]

I really don't know what you want me to read :)


I was trying to point out that Honch was an active raider, and he and I share the same memories. Of course now Auvdar, of the Drunken Fisherman (which I do remember) doesn't remember a rotation.

[Tekman]

Rodcet Wut

[Lyra]

Rodcet Wut

Rodcet Who

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Zephany still mad he got rejected because everyone fucking hated him.

sooner or later, the "ya'll just haters" argument makes you sound like a throwback to 90's rapper beefs. No one uses that argument anymore, you know. It is considered declasse. You sound strangely out of step with what normal rational people think these days. It seems to be your only reaction to criticism, the only arrow in your quiver, as it were. Are you retarded?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

For every person that screams how all the batphoning, shitbaggery, training, dishonorable tactics are classic there is always another person that came from a server with rotations and a sense of decorum when it came to raiding.


if that could become a basic axiom, of these debates, we could cut out a lot of the BS, no? Some servers were more fluid, or cooperative, or just plain chaotic. Others were pioneering the poopsock.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Fippy during the time period we're at right now on this server was absolute shit. There were entire SK armies set up with MQ2 to insta-spam harmtouch the second raid targets spawned. It was the EQ version of a nuclear arms race. Maybe it all changed after I quit and left the raiding scene there but up until when I left all the top guilds were assholes blaming each other for their own cheating.

truth. lived it. breathed it. spent a year on it. it was a cherished memory because, I seriouslydoubt I will ever, even if I lived a thousand lifetimes, see a more fucked up game world.

I can only gather, for Fippy and SOE in general, if you do not hack, youare a fool. They WANT you to buy subs. 30 sk's all macrod? np, money in their bank.

at that point, i LOVE this server.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Fippy did not die to progression, boxing, or RaF. That conversation and circumstance defined a group of some 150-300 people, not the 3k+ that were playing.

Fippy died to platinum inflation via exploitation thru
1) fire opals
2) eggs
3) alchemy recipes

I reported the fire opal exploit myself. Eggs was widespread as well. Alchemy was the best kept secret and was the true killer. I knew several people who pumped 10+ million into the server. To give you reference, I was the richest person on Fippy pre-exploits, or, without using exploits. My mount of cash at the peak was something like 500kpp in 2 months, which is absurd. When that exploitation went wild my pile went to near useless as it suffered a degradation of a full order of magnitude of buying power. THAT is what killed Fippy.

The fact that sony's server's got hacked and kept people from logging in for several weeks was the final straw. Fippy death had absolutely nothing to do with the raid scene, at all.

damn tomtee. you did yer research. all true, too. that alchemist bug is what made me realize, shit, this server is not gonna be real. which led to all kinds of mayhem.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Servers with rotations, at least mine, usually let the "Friendlyfamilyguild" have their shot when asked nicely, mostly because "Friendlyfamilyguild" weren't a threat to them. They were severely underleveled, didn't know the strat, usually didn't have the required gear, much less things like resist gear or clickies, not that they would have known what to do with those. They would just sit back and watch them wipe then move in for the kill, and still get thanked for the opportunity.



ya, that was before 9/11 tho, when the terrorists won

[Nune]

You down to be on a Batphone alert 24/7? Otherwise, quit bitching and level up. Plenty to be raided in casual guilds, and if you're willing to put the time in andget good at your class, TMO and FE always accepts talented members. Poopsock or not, their guilds are full of people who know what they're doing.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I was on batphone before cellphones were invented, friend. landlines, dial-up, and a good relationship with a telephone repairman. that was how we rolled.

but in answer to your query: no.

and as to the top guilds always needing skilled players? On their best day, if they say to themselves, "who would the Queen herself recruit to her private guild?" the answer is always the same:


Sadre.

[Vild]

The way some people get energy from projecting their own misery on their surrounding never ceases to amaze. Add to that the way those people seem to find each other and do it in groups to multiply the effect.

Solution 1; Take the fight to them, in this case beat them at their own game.
Problem with that is you will become the very thing you hate; a greedy, cockblocking loot whore.

Solution 2; Don't bother with raiding P1999, enjoy the rest of the content solo or in a group. Dungeon crawling with big pulls will be just as fun as any Kunark raid (pre VP).
EQ raiding doesn't become serious fun until PoP!

Solution 3; Face the fact that it's been 14 years and MMO's have evolved. Let EQ stay a memory and realize that "first ever" is not the same as "best ever".

Don't bother flaming this, I wont read it and don't give a fuck anyway!

\V

[sulious]

The way some people get energy from projecting their own misery on their surrounding never ceases to amaze. Add to that the way those people seem to find each other and do it in groups to multiply the effect.

Solution 1; Take the fight to them, in this case beat them at their own game.
Problem with that is you will become the very thing you hate; a greedy, cockblocking loot whore.

Solution 2; Don't bother with raiding P1999, enjoy the rest of the content solo or in a group. Dungeon crawling with big pulls will be just as fun as any Kunark raid (pre VP).
EQ raiding doesn't become serious fun until PoP!

Solution 3; Face the fact that it's been 14 years and MMO's have evolved. Let EQ stay a memory and realize that "first ever" is not the same as "best ever".

Don't bother flaming this, I wont read it and don't give a fuck anyway!

\V

so much truth in 100 words or less.

[Rooj]

I remember a Ragefire rotation on Rodcet, but I don't remember when that was.

[Highbrow]

P99 has never tried to emulate the fact that EQ had like twenty servers for the hardcores to spread out on. Raid content being completely and utterly inaccessible was not a universal feature of EQ at any point in time, you always had the option of moving to a server where the endgame hadn't been totally monopolized or where the top guild had room for you. EQ essentially had twenty times the content P99 has. The developers have never cared to acknowledge this problem and don't seem interested in fixing it. It has created a community of people who hate each other and distrust the GMs, a server where doing anything meaningful means you have to step on others and ruin it for them in order to get it to yourself. It has created a community of constant bickering, abuse, conention and rampant cheating -- everything you want to do has to be done at the expense of others.

So many players quit because they come to realize that the only way to get anything other than the leveling experience out of this server is to join a guild that expects completely unreasonable and unhealthy things of their members, and makes you shunned by the community because you're content-blocking a thousand other players. It's not the fault of the resident überguild, it's the fault of the server for failing to account for the fact that Everquest is not a game that functions properly with just one server that has no instancing or manual spawning of raid content.

Failure to account for this is the reason P99 has numbers in the hundreds instead of the thousands, and the conflict created by this endgame environment has been such a blemish on the server throughout its history and the cause for several good GMs quitting, not to mention probably 75% of the people who have played here. It's the #1 issue with this server and one that has been dominating the community since the very beginning, but almost nothing has been done about it. Emulator communities always consist of disproportionately high amounts of hardcore players, former raiders, and people who come with ambitions of doing all the stuff they didn't get to do back in the day. This has to be accounted for or the server suffers severely, as P99 always has. It's only because there has been no classic EQ alternative of reasonable quality that P99 even has numbers in the higher hundreds.

There's not enough content on an EQ server for more than one, maybe one and a half serious raid guilds. Instead, EQ had its twenty servers so that there generally was enough total raid content for everybody who wanted to raid. Maybe you had to reroll elsewhere if your current server had a hardcore poopsocking guild, but you had that option. There's no alternative on P99, even if you were to "beat" the top guild then there's still only enough content for a certain amount of players. You've just shifted the hierarchy around at best and saddled others with the issue of no available endgame content. This has actually happened a few times here.

It's holding P99 back from being awesome, and it has cost the server many individuals who would have improved it.

[Rhambuk]

It's holding P99 back from being awesome, and it has cost the server many individuals who would have improved it.

great post, solid points, but what do you expect to be done? make 10 server copies of p99 for people to move around between. Each guild would have its own server there simply arent enough people for multiple servers.

Too many for 1 server, not enough for multiple. That's been the problem of p99 (imo) to many people trying to coexist on one server, but not nearly enough to open other servers else we have a bunch of near empty servers (then of course people bouncing back and forth doing nothing but griefing people on those servers).

[Faerie Blossom]

My server could beat up your server! :O

[Skope]

great post, solid points, but what do you expect to be done? make 10 server copies of p99 for people to move around between. Each guild would have its own server there simply arent enough people for multiple servers.

Too many for 1 server, not enough for multiple. That's been the problem of p99 (imo) to many people trying to coexist on one server, but not nearly enough to open other servers else we have a bunch of near empty servers (then of course people bouncing back and forth doing nothing but griefing people on those servers).

Coexisting isn't the issue here, at least outside of the high end raid scene. People generally get along fine, but as soon as you put dragon loot between them they go apeshit.

You can keep things calm provided you're willing to stomp down on behavior one would consider douchey, but that just hasn't happened consistently on this server since Uthgaard. Which is kind of pathetic, really. Uthgaard, the paranoid schizo who took things to the extreme was the the only one who gave a shit.

I've mentioned this before but it keeps getting ignored: delete raid loot. If the guilds can't work it out on their own and require a babysitter then you should take their toys away. They'll quickly learn their lesson. Finding a GM with balls is an entirely different matter

[Highbrow]

The one single good thing that came out of the hilarious failure that was The Sleeper was their idea of a dynamic raid spawning system. They never actually implemented it, but the idea was sound: every qualified raid guild would get their own, like, weekly allowance of tokens with which to spawn raid mobs. This would only have to be for the actual top end raid content as people aren't destroying the server over the rights to farm planes. A token turn-in system would probably be abusable no matter how you do it, but I think something could be done with temporary alternate server shards that people can transfer to and from.

Something like this will be especially important in Velious because that expansion is all about raiding, being a non-raider during Velious is just absolute garbage. It's manageable during classic/Kunark because so much of the high-end gear can be bought, but Velious is the point where you're either in a top raid guild or you're nobody. The stuff you can do without access to ToV/ST-like content is completely worthless, you're just an unwashed plebian of no value if you can't raid during Velious. That's an expansion where being a casual player just isn't enough.

Imagine a server where there is no content except the raid bosses and their associated trash mobs, you can't go there and farm Sebilis by yourself or camp some rare spawn without competition. You can, however, transfer there to raid (and back to P99 afterwards), but only to the shard that your guild has been assigned. Nobody has access to more than one shard, and in order for a guild to qualify for a raid shard, they have to prove that they're actually a serious raid guild that deserves access to the endgame content. Hell, it might even create an environment of healthy competition for "world firsts."

This would make raiding available to enough people without compromising the rest of the game. There would be no reason to stay on the raid shards outside of actual raid sessions since there would be no other content, and there is no unfair advantage for anybody. This is the only way to accomodate a playerbase where several hundred people want to raid but can't because there isn't room. This is how you emulate the fact that EQ had twenty servers, without causing problems in the leveling and grouping scene.

[Tiggles]

The one single good thing that came out of the hilarious failure that was The Sleeper was their idea of a dynamic raid spawning system. They never actually implemented it, but the idea was sound: every qualified raid guild would get their own, like, weekly allowance of tokens with which to spawn raid mobs. This would only have to be for the actual top end raid content as people aren't destroying the server over the rights to farm planes. A token turn-in system would probably be abusable no matter how you do it, but I think something could be done with temporary alternate server shards that people can transfer to and from.

Something like this will be especially important in Velious because that expansion is all about raiding, being a non-raider during Velious is just absolute garbage. It's manageable during classic/Kunark because so much of the high-end gear can be bought, but Velious is the point where you're either in a top raid guild or you're nobody. The stuff you can do without access to ToV/ST-like content is completely worthless, you're just an unwashed plebian of no value if you can't raid during Velious. That's an expansion where being a casual player just isn't enough.

Imagine a server where there is no content except the raid bosses and their associated trash mobs, you can't go there and farm Sebilis by yourself or camp some rare spawn without competition. You can, however, transfer there to raid (and back to P99 afterwards), but only to the shard that your guild has been assigned. Nobody has access to more than one shard, and in order for a guild to qualify for a raid shard, they have to prove that they're actually a serious raid guild that deserves access to the endgame content

This would make raiding available to enough people without compromising the rest of the game. There would be no reason to stay on the raid shards outside of actual raid sessions since there would be no other content, and there is no unfair advantage for anybody. This is the only way to accomodate a playerbase where several hundred people want to raid but can't because there isn't room. This is how you emulate the fact that EQ had twenty servers, without causing problems in the leveling and grouping scene.

Nah

[Highbrow]

Nah

Great debate.

[falkun]

being a non-raider during Velious is just absolute garbage.

"Casual raids" in Velious:
Kael plate cycle
Kael arena farming
Vindi (larger raid, but 8 hr spawn)
Lodizal
EToV
Sirens Grotto
PoG clear
Fear golems (post-revamp)
Hate minis/upstairs (post-revamp)
Abandoned Kunark content
PoM
Possibly Velk and Lord Djo
WW dragons

Most of the above can be 2-grouped or less, especially with the large contingent of L55+ players on this server. While you will be far from BIS/full NToV geared, you can complete these raids/group encounters for gear better than what is available in Kunark.

Hardcore raiding definitely sees a boost in Velious, and there is TONS to do, but all tiers of raiding are improved by Velious, and factioning actually spreads people around a bit so they aren't all fighting for the same mobs.

[Clark]

I deserve to play 5 hours a week and get dragon loot. This is Everquest of course-- the most casualest of MMOs.

After all, anyone who plays more than me is a basement gollum.

Haha

[maverixdamighty]

"Casual raids" in Velious:
Kael plate cycle
Kael arena farming
Vindi (larger raid, but 8 hr spawn)
Lodizal
EToV
Sirens Grotto
PoG clear
Fear golems (post-revamp)
Hate minis/upstairs (post-revamp)
Abandoned Kunark content
PoM
Possibly Velk and Lord Djo
WW dragons

Most of the above can be 2-grouped or less, especially with the large contingent of L55+ players on this server. While you will be far from BIS/full NToV geared, you can complete these raids/group encounters for gear better than what is available in Kunark.

Hardcore raiding definitely sees a boost in Velious, and there is TONS to do, but all tiers of raiding are improved by Velious, and factioning actually spreads people around a bit so they aren't all fighting for the same mobs.

this.

[Lagaidh]

So today the only challenge that remains, what top guilds are looking for, is actually the race.

Wow. That is a perfect clinching sentence. It crystallizes one of the "mysteries" of this server that always has the forums buzzing.

I think the other prong of the phenomenon is this: what passes for a casual player here usually has an extremely difficult time understanding that the race is fun to others. Perhaps that misunderstanding goes both ways and what passes for hardcore here doesn't understand why the casual wants to play the way they do (I call it "the journey" player- might one day raid).

The real crux of that is that the hardcore doesn't see a problem, and I would have to admit, that in a vacuum I would agree with them. However, personally, I think the community should be the gem here and from that perspective... there are problems.

[Splorf22]

The one single good thing that came out of the hilarious failure that was The Sleeper was their idea of a dynamic raid spawning system.

I tend to agree. As I said I have been championing simultaneous repops for about a year and a half now. We got several over about a month recently. On one of them I estimated that there were 300 people on. Lets count up: we Rapture, Divinity, BDA, A-Team, TMO, FE, Taken, Europa, Full Circle = 9 raiding guilds. Meanwhile we have targets in Fear, Hate, Sky, KC, Sebilis, EJ, TD, DL, and Skyfire = 9 targets. Perhaps I am missing something (or someone) but basically if you don't feel like leapfrogging/otherwise playing hardball you aren't going to get much on a repop. I still feel repops are a huge improvement over the current situation, but they still encourage this ridiculous cutthroat culture we have here.

So I would support some sort of token system, say each guild can spawn two different raid targets per week with some sort of command. Those targets would simply banish anyone from another guild and despawn after say 1 hour. The main idea would be to allow all guilds to (very slowly) progress through all the content. It would also discourage these huge zerg guilds we have here because every guild would only get 2 tokens per week.

Anyway the problem with all this is that we have no programmer for 1999 at the moment. Rogean and Nilbog agreed over 6 months ago that some sort of change was needed in the raid scene, but Nilbog does content, Rogean is doing star wars and, Kanras swings by every 4 months to do one day of bugfixes. Hell we haven't even seen the invis pulling fixes in yet and that happened a month ago. The number one announcement I would like to see from Nilbog is a new programmer.

[falkun]

The repops were decent, but still didn't get stuff spread out enough. TMO/FE fought for most mobs, a second tier guild would get Fay, and then we'd all be duking it out in Sky for Dojo. Divinity did pull a big Talendar last time, but that's about it. Maybe change would come if the repops were maintained long-term, but as you said, we got a month of them or so and then back to the status-quo.

At this point I'm just hopeful for Velious and the epic mob revamps to happen sooner rather than later. As soon as the hardcores get through Velious, they'll have less motivation to log on. Right now they can keep motivated (somehow after 2 years) with the thought of, "There's still Velious." But the downside to the Velious coin the the ass-raping those of us wanting ST loot will receive when the hardcores wake the Sleeper on their way out, either as a final farewell, to cement themselves into server lore, and/or as a final "fuck you".

[diplo]

to OP...guess you never actually raided on live either.

[Faerie Blossom]

The Sleeper "raid token" idea honestly was a very good one. All the benefits of instancing without any of the downsides :)

[Sarius]

Downside of tokens: TMO loses competitive aspect of current raid scene
Upside of tokens: The other 95% of the server is happy

Who should this server cater to?

[Nune]

I was on batphone before cellphones were invented, friend. landlines, dial-up, and a good relationship with a telephone repairman. that was how we rolled.

but in answer to your query: no.

and as to the top guilds always needing skilled players? On their best day, if they say to themselves, "who would the Queen herself recruit to her private guild?" the answer is always the same:


Sadre.


Ahh, so you're just crying and posting to read your own words, and you have a retarded internet ego you clearly find funny.


Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew, not many of those around here glad you nestled in. :rolleyes: fgtz

[Zeelot]

@Falkun, I will prevent the sleeper from being woken on p99 ever. Have a little faith!

[Rjones61]

To OP:

I have never desired to raid while on this server. I have never enjoyed raiding while ever playing Everquest. It's long, tedious, and just has too much sitting around. Many players feel the same way.

[Zeelot]

Yes, because the server is first in your thoughts.

Like when you killed the spell vendors that had kunark port spells on them to cockblock the whole server?

You mean Skie? Harrison inaccurate as always.

[Ele]

Downside of tokens: TMO loses competitive aspect of current raid scene
Upside of tokens: The other 95% of the server is happy

Who should this server cater to?

People that want classic.

[falkun]

@Zeelot: I don't have faith in TMO doing anything that does not directly benefit them and/or cement their name in the Server. Therefore, I foresee, "Server First: Wake the Sleeper: The Mystical Order" which will both benefit them by keeping primal weapons and other drops more rare and also cementing their name in infamy.*

@Ele: "Classic" arguments do not hold ground on this server regarding raid spawns because the raid spawn system on this server is, by design, not-Classic. One raid spawn method is no different than the next when neither is Classic.

*Example: TMO locking down the Locket camp in Droga and then within 24 hours of them losing the Locket camp making a Bug post saying TD Firepot binding needs to cease (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31170).
http://oi56.tinypic.com/2lxjuwh.jpg

[August]

People that want classic.

I guess my thought on this is that classic is not about adhering to the strict guidelines that were set forth in the early golden days but more about NOT wanting what further expansions gave us, such as:

AAs
Cats on the Moon
Mounts
Bazaar
PoK books
Instances
Spreading out the world / obsoleting the old-world content.

I'm not sure how 'classic' defines what we currently have. Being in Kunark for 2.5 years is not 'classic' - there is too much platinum on the server. The server is too top end. The server has too much item bloat.

To add to that, technology has significantly advanced since the 'classic' times. We have resources to find out everything we would ever want to know about X quest and Y NPC. Hell, even the wiki and it's price watching is not 'classic'. Part of the great thing bout EQ is that I could catch a steal on an item and then resell it for gain. Now when you buy an item you are BASICALLY using the bazaar - pull up your search interface (wiki.project1999.org) and you can see a listing of all the items and their sell price.

I just think the excuse of 'we want it classic - no tokens! no respawns!' is so old hat and just caters to the people who want to monopolize the content. While a high end guild certainly dominated servers across the board, we had 20+ servers to spread them out on, and if you wanted to be a 'hardcore raider' you could get into that guild on your server. On this server, we have 300+ 'hardcores' and 1000s of people who know their class and would like to attend a raid and there's only enough end game to support 60.

Devs have worked hard on this server and you can't expect a small team to recreate what a whole org did back in 1999. There is definitely an issue at the top that is affecting a vocal minority of players on p1999 - the same vocal minority that likes to rant and flame on these boards. There's a lot of logistics problems with fixing the end game bloat, but let's not wave the 'classic flag' as a reason not to pursue any of those options.

[bluejam]

Who should this server cater to?
The people in charge.

[arsenalpow]

This doesn't even have to be tokens, it could just be a bag limit (think hunting)

Right now TMO can stall VP attempts with a handful of trainers, kill everything else they can, then finish up in VP. If each guild had a bag limit of say 6 TMO would shoot for the 3-4 VP dragons then 2-3 from the VS/Trak/Sev/CT/Inny pile. This would allow other guilds to pull some targets, and encourage other guilds.

This would require some cooperation and maturity though...

[vulzol]

P99 has never tried to emulate the fact that EQ had like twenty servers for the hardcores to spread out on. Raid content being completely and utterly inaccessible was not a universal feature of EQ at any point in time, you always had the option of moving to a server where the endgame hadn't been totally monopolized or where the top guild had room for you. EQ essentially had twenty times the content P99 has. The developers have never cared to acknowledge this problem and don't seem interested in fixing it. It has created a community of people who hate each other and distrust the GMs, a server where doing anything meaningful means you have to step on others and ruin it for them in order to get it to yourself. It has created a community of constant bickering, abuse, conention and rampant cheating -- everything you want to do has to be done at the expense of others.

So many players quit because they come to realize that the only way to get anything other than the leveling experience out of this server is to join a guild that expects completely unreasonable and unhealthy things of their members, and makes you shunned by the community because you're content-blocking a thousand other players. It's not the fault of the resident überguild, it's the fault of the server for failing to account for the fact that Everquest is not a game that functions properly with just one server that has no instancing or manual spawning of raid content.

Failure to account for this is the reason P99 has numbers in the hundreds instead of the thousands, and the conflict created by this endgame environment has been such a blemish on the server throughout its history and the cause for several good GMs quitting, not to mention probably 75% of the people who have played here. It's the #1 issue with this server and one that has been dominating the community since the very beginning, but almost nothing has been done about it. Emulator communities always consist of disproportionately high amounts of hardcore players, former raiders, and people who come with ambitions of doing all the stuff they didn't get to do back in the day. This has to be accounted for or the server suffers severely, as P99 always has. It's only because there has been no classic EQ alternative of reasonable quality that P99 even has numbers in the higher hundreds.

There's not enough content on an EQ server for more than one, maybe one and a half serious raid guilds. Instead, EQ had its twenty servers so that there generally was enough total raid content for everybody who wanted to raid. Maybe you had to reroll elsewhere if your current server had a hardcore poopsocking guild, but you had that option. There's no alternative on P99, even if you were to "beat" the top guild then there's still only enough content for a certain amount of players. You've just shifted the hierarchy around at best and saddled others with the issue of no available endgame content. This has actually happened a few times here.

It's holding P99 back from being awesome, and it has cost the server many individuals who would have improved it.

Perhaps the only reason guilds like TMO play P1999 is to cockblock others. My hypothesis is if TMO had a server all to themselves to dominate end-game content then they wouldn't want to keep playing. After all, who would be there to inspect them in east commonlands tunnel?

Why not just have 2 servers of P1999, one designated as "hardcore" where game is run as it is now and one where a GM enforces rotations. People bitch that it'd split the population too much but remember there are many people who have quit because they haven't had access to end-game content. All-in-all we'd likely see many people return to experience the content so overall the population will increase.

Clearly a win/win. The only people that should be against this idea are the people at the top who will lose the inspecting messages.

Classic had multiple servers. P1999 is trying to emulate classic. Classic solution for classic problem. Done.

[maverixdamighty]

Perhaps the only reason guilds like TMO play P1999 is to cockblock others. My hypothesis is if TMO had a server all to themselves to dominate end-game content then they wouldn't want to keep playing. After all, who would be there to inspect them in east commonlands tunnel?

Why not just have 2 servers of P1999, one designated as "hardcore" where game is run as it is now and one where a GM enforces rotations. People bitch that it'd split the population too much but remember there are many people who have quit because they haven't had access to end-game content. All-in-all we'd likely see many people return to experience the content so overall the population will increase.

Clearly a win/win. The only people that should be against this idea are the people at the top who will lose the inspecting messages.

Classic had multiple servers. P1999 is trying to emulate classic. Classic solution for classic problem. Done.

not enough of a population to warrant a 2nd server. problem is lack of content and will continue to be so until velious is out.

[Sarius]

I think the bag limit is a cool idea, but it will never happen. The problem with the current raid scene is not lack of content. The problem is the cost of competition, and not a lot of people willing to pay that cost.

[August]

I think the bag limit is a cool idea, but it will never happen. The problem with the current raid scene is not lack of content. The problem is the cost of competition, and not a lot of people willing to pay that cost.

Chicken and the egg. Scarcity of an item aka large demand lets the price of the item soar. Scarcity of content creates a high price of obtaining said content, which in turn makes it hard for people to pay that 'cost' of possession. The problem is very much lack of content.

[Splorf22]

I think the bag limit is a cool idea, but it will never happen. The problem with the current raid scene is not lack of content. The problem is the cost of competition, and not a lot of people willing to pay that cost.

You just contradicted yourself. The problem is our huge endgame population (a product of the long delay before velious, increased knowledge about the game and relatively serious nature of the players) relative to the small amount of high-end content.

People that want classic.

100% agree with Tomtee here. Having to track/batphone to have any chance at the raid scene is not classic.

But the biggest reason I would prefer tokens is that I think it would go a huge way towards making this server's endgame a more pleasant, friendly place. Instead everyone fights like dogs over the tiny amount of Kunark endgame content.

[Sarius]

What will more content do? With Velious out, Kunark loot will be undesirable and the desirable mobs will still be killed every time by the top. I've seen it before, at it will happen again.

[Sarius]

You just contradicted yourself. The problem is our huge endgame population (a product of the long delay before velious, increased knowledge about the game and relatively serious nature of the players) relative to the small amount of high-end content.


How is that a contradiction. The cost of competition that I am referring to is waking up at a moments notice to kill a mob, leave alts parked at every mob, train for hours on end, and track like its a paying job.

[August]

How is that a contradiction. The cost of competition that I am referring to is waking up at a moments notice to kill a mob, leave alts parked at every mob, train for hours on end, and track like its a paying job.

The contradiction is that it is a lack of content that causes the cost of competition. If no one wanted to kill Nagafen, then anyone could make a PUG at any time and casually raid him. When you have 300 people that want to kill raid targets and only 5-6 targets to go after, the cost becomes incredibly high.

View it as a commodity, or oil. The less of it we produce, the higher it's cost assuming constant demand. Velious changes this somewhat -although I too have lived this progression before and have seen it's outcome. THere is a LOT more end game content in velious - a lot more stuff to do - period. It's an expansion devoted solely to level 60 activities. However, I don't think it will be enough to keep everyone happy. It never is.

I think the real lesson is that I'm just bored at work today.

[Splorf22]

Supply and demand. There are a good number of people who want to log on and kill EQ bosses on this server. There are a very small number of such bosses. Therefore the price is high, and its paid in time tracking.

[Splorf22]

Only because of an unclassic variance added that benefits only unemployed baddies.

No, the variance is the effect of the congestion, not the cause. Rogean and co got tired of having 200 people on every bosses spawnpoint.

I don't like variance because although it does solve the congestion problem it does so by making the endgame so annoying that most people can't/choose not to participate. I was chatting with Flemming yesterday on my mage and asked how much tracking he did. He said 10 hours and I thought that was a lot, but apparently a lot of people do 40+ hours (!).

[August]

No, the variance is the effect of the congestion, not the cause. Rogean and co got tired of having 200 people on every bosses spawnpoint.

I don't like variance because although it does solve the congestion problem it does so by making the endgame so annoying that most people can't/choose not to participate. I was chatting with Flemming yesterday on my mage and asked how much tracking he did. He said 10 hours and I thought that was a lot, but apparently a lot of people do 40+ hours (!).

Wow 40 hours a week? Do they get paid? Some people make six figures for that kind of dedication.

[Jarnauga]

lol @ TMO that want things to stay the same because "it's classic" when variance is not.

My server on live (Karana) had a player enforced rotation. Don't ever tell me that p99 is classic the way it is.

[Sarius]

Things will not change much at all with Velious. The top guilds will add more alts to their army and each player will have 15+ lvl 60 decked out characters to camp at every single raid spawn. Don't worry, after a couple of years the "casual" player should be able to get a HoT raid going to get their SS armor

[Skope]

No, the variance is the effect of the congestion, not the cause. Rogean and co got tired of having 200 people on every bosses spawnpoint.

I don't like variance because although it does solve the congestion problem it does so by making the endgame so annoying that most people can't/choose not to participate. I was chatting with Flemming yesterday on my mage and asked how much tracking he did. He said 10 hours and I thought that was a lot, but apparently a lot of people do 40+ hours (!).

The variance started in the spring of 2010 when it was decided that adding variance would mean people wouldn't poopsock. It was thought that nobody would be stupid enough to stoop to such a low level to sit there logged/afk for +/- 48. Well, three years later and the variance has done absolutely nothing about the problem in the first place. For three years it hasn't worked

--
Just to add, it was also pushed, and later defended by some people who later ended up getting caught SEQ/MQing. They didn't exactly mind the "tracking."

[pharmakos]

Rodcet Wut

did ya think you could raid with me?

Rodcet Who

know your spellbook from the a to the z

[Tekman]

HOV

[Ghordo]

Wipe it clean.

[Faerie Blossom]

I know I'm speaking to the wrong crowd here, but do you think opening up one-way transfers to red would do anything to alleviate the problem?

[webrunner5]

I know we are all waiting for Velious. But it will be the same old thing. Only a top few people will get to get into the top spots to raid or even group. How many people you think will be perma camped at Kael entrance, ToFS?? :eek:

And I hate to burst your bubble but there is not that many places to solo or go as a level 60 other than raids. The mobs in Velious hit hard as hell and have a ton of resists. You are better off being like level 35 playing in most zones. But I AM looking forward to it.:p

[Lyra]

did ya think you could raid with me?



know your spellbook from the a to the z


Hmmm

I actually know my spell book. I looked at it for 35 levels. I would read from it, making up stories in group chat using the spell icons as characters.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I guess my thought on this is that classic is not about adhering to the strict guidelines that were set forth in the early golden days but more about NOT wanting what further expansions gave us, such as:

AAs
Cats on the Moon
Mounts
Bazaar
PoK books
Instances
Spreading out the world / obsoleting the old-world content.

I'm not sure how 'classic' defines what we currently have. Being in Kunark for 2.5 years is not 'classic' - there is too much platinum on the server. The server is too top end. The server has too much item bloat.

To add to that, technology has significantly advanced since the 'classic' times. We have resources to find out everything we would ever want to know about X quest and Y NPC. Hell, even the wiki and it's price watching is not 'classic'. Part of the great thing bout EQ is that I could catch a steal on an item and then resell it for gain. Now when you buy an item you are BASICALLY using the bazaar - pull up your search interface (wiki.project1999.org) and you can see a listing of all the items and their sell price.

I just think the excuse of 'we want it classic - no tokens! no respawns!' is so old hat and just caters to the people who want to monopolize the content. While a high end guild certainly dominated servers across the board, we had 20+ servers to spread them out on, and if you wanted to be a 'hardcore raider' you could get into that guild on your server. On this server, we have 300+ 'hardcores' and 1000s of people who know their class and would like to attend a raid and there's only enough end game to support 60.

Devs have worked hard on this server and you can't expect a small team to recreate what a whole org did back in 1999. There is definitely an issue at the top that is affecting a vocal minority of players on p1999 - the same vocal minority that likes to rant and flame on these boards. There's a lot of logistics problems with fixing the end game bloat, but let's not wave the 'classic flag' as a reason not to pursue any of those options.

dear lord i agree

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The way some people get energy from projecting their own misery on their surrounding never ceases to amaze. Add to that the way those people seem to find each other and do it in groups to multiply the effect.

Solution 1; Take the fight to them, in this case beat them at their own game.
Problem with that is you will become the very thing you hate; a greedy, cockblocking loot whore.

Solution 2; Don't bother with raiding P1999, enjoy the rest of the content solo or in a group. Dungeon crawling with big pulls will be just as fun as any Kunark raid (pre VP).
EQ raiding doesn't become serious fun until PoP!

Solution 3; Face the fact that it's been 14 years and MMO's have evolved. Let EQ stay a memory and realize that "first ever" is not the same as "best ever".

Don't bother flaming this, I wont read it and don't give a fuck anyway!

\V

no flame here

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Chicken and the egg. Scarcity of an item aka large demand lets the price of the item soar. Scarcity of content creates a high price of obtaining said content, which in turn makes it hard for people to pay that 'cost' of possession. The problem is very much lack of content.

and all together now, with gusto, "and instances and/or imposed otations is not the answer."

s I said, if anyhone could solve thse problems they would be a millionaire. I am complaining, I am not saying the problems are stupid. This is how these worlds end up, it seems.

AND NO: content is not the answer. the gamer who farmbots expansions A and B will easily just add C to the list.


It is a gemplay and design issue. And as I rudely suggested, a GM issue.

RUN THE GAME

dungeon masters. google it.


ok, rant off.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Wow 40 hours a week? Do they get paid? Some people make six figures for that kind of dedication.

not all of us have amazing gigs at high end Hong Kong internet cafes, dude

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I know we are all waiting for Velious. But it will be the same old thing. Only a top few people will get to get into the top spots to raid or even group. How many people you think will be perma camped at Kael entrance, ToFS?? :eek:

And I hate to burst your bubble but there is not that many places to solo or go as a level 60 other than raids. The mobs in Velious hit hard as hell and have a ton of resists. You are better off being like level 35 playing in most zones. But I AM looking forward to it.:p


sadly, /thread

[maverixdamighty]

AND NO: content is not the answer. the gamer who farmbots expansions A and B will easily just add C to the list.



wrong. can guarantee if velious comes out plenty of kunark content will become available. also as other mentioned there are non-boss mobs areas that can be raided in velious with significant upgrades for more casual guilds.

[skipdog]

So much whining and crying in this thread.

This is fucking everquest. Why would you expect anything other than one uber guild to crush 90% of the content? While it's nice that some of you were on happy care bear servers with rotations on live, most of us weren't and the rules have been clear here for a very long time. There is nothing stopping another guild from stepping up and competing with TMO, we saw what FE could do(for a couple weeks), but the fact is no other guild has had the leadership or been able to put in the work that TMO has.

Hearing people berate TMO for 'being the best guild on the server' has to be one of the most pathetic things I hear on a regular basis. The couple weeks I spent in BDA, was a very eye-opening experience. Never before have I seen one guild hate another with such pure passion. Never before have I seen adult men with families, lie through their teeth rather than admit that TMO simply beat them. Never before have I seen an entire guild simply pretend that Chest wasn't the cause of many trains and blame them on TMO.

In this thread, we simply have a bunch of people who have been fully aware of the crazy effort and organization it takes to lock down all of these raid mobs for years who just want to bash the only guild willing to put in that effort. So pathetic.

[Splorf22]

Bizyphap: variance is not classic. What do you say to that?

[xarzzardorn]

im a dumbass

variance achieves gameplay closer to classic than static respawns do

[Chokan]

variance achieves gameplay closer to classic than static respawns do

Achieves classic gameplay does not equal classic. Server is supposed to be the same as live was, pretty black and white.

[Splorf22]

variance achieves gameplay closer to classic than static respawns do

Does classic gameplay involve 96 hours of tracking?

Also keep the RNF in RNF please.

[Tecmos Deception]

Achieves classic gameplay does not equal classic. Server is supposed to be the same as live was, pretty black and white.

"The mission of the project is to create the classic feeling that many had during the early days of Everquest during those time periods . . ."

http://www.project1999.org/index.php?pageid=about

It doesn't say the server's mission is to recreate every classic mechanic.

[arsenalpow]

How large do you think the active player pool is currently for blue? We peak at around 800 on busy nights so just to spitball I'd say something like 1500 active players (obviously not all at once since we all have different playtimes and by active lets say logs in at least once every 2-3 days)

Lets say that TMO has 150 active players (based on the TMO DKP records) This means that 10% of the server is dictating the way raiding should happen to the other 90% of the server.

You can beat the classic drum over and over but we are no longer dealing with a classic problem, this needs a custom solution. The server has tried to come together for small things (like a schedule for sky) and TMO can't even let something that simple exist.

This is a 14 year old elf simulator, there's no reason for it to be a job. People come to p99 to experience some nostalgia and end up leaving once they reach the ceiling that TMO artificially maintains using every dirty tactic available to them (along with their excellent mobilization which I cant hate on) The typical responses don't solve the current issue, talking about Velious doesn't solve the issues today (it will in the future) nor does suggesting that the 90% work together to take down TMO (most people don't want to resort to the dirty tactics that are prevalent at raids)

[Clark]

http://s23.postimg.org/41jm4q3i3/800px_Himalayan_Marmot_at_Tshophu_Lake_Bhutan_09.j pg

[Tecmos Deception]

I wouldn't be going out on a limb to say that 100% of every shred of evidence for the last three years points to the exact opposite of this.

I think you would be.

Variance on p99 = tracking for days, camping out fully buffed near spawns, batphones for mobilization. Definitely not stuff that tended to happen in classic.

But no variance on p99 = socking for days with a full raid force, autofire macros for FTE, etc. Definitely not stuff that tended to happen in classic either.


Most everyone agrees the current raid scene isn't great, it's just that everyone gets all worked up whenever someone tries to say what they think would be great and then goes all R&F on people who don't agree (and vice versa).

[Splorf22]

Well back in the day there was the 15-on-the-spawn poopsocking rule.

Basically I think Chest is right though (as unbelievable as that may sound!). Currently we have rules that benefit the 10% of the server who is willing to track/batphone (and then brag about it as though it is some huge accomplishment) and completely shut out the other 90%, and those rules are not remotely classic: they were put in place purely to reduce the workload on the server staff, and they haven't even been effective at that.

I would actually be in favor of going back to 0 variance and pure FTE just because after a month of 500 people crashing the zones for FTE we'd probably get a rotation.

I would also like to add the Nilbog agrees that the current raid scene is ridiculous and has posted to that effect.

[Thulack]

Well back in the day there was the 15-on-the-spawn poopsocking rule.

Basically I think Chest is right though (as unbelievable as that may sound!). Currently we have rules that benefit the 10% of the server who is willing to track/batphone (and then brag about it as though it is some huge accomplishment) and completely shut out the other 90%, and those rules are not remotely classic: they were put in place purely to reduce the workload on the server staff, and they haven't even been effective at that.

I would actually be in favor of going back to 0 variance and pure FTE just because after a month of 500 people crashing the zones for FTE we'd probably get a rotation.

I would also like to add the Nilbog agrees that the current raid scene is ridiculous and has posted to that effect.

Funny thing is a rotation would eliminate all workload for the server staff other then looking a 1 webpage to see whose night/turn it is for zone/mob.

[Skope]

I would also like to add the Nilbog agrees that the current raid scene is ridiculous and has posted to that effect.

And then a new variance on top of the current one was added.

Nilbog's reasonable and usually preditctable, but I don't know what the hell he was thinking when he agreed to that.

[kank]

So do smaller guilds just need to band together and donate more money to get their voices heard and a rotation enforced? Forum speculation seems to be getting nowhere.

[Skope]

So do smaller guilds just need to band together and donate more money to get their voices heard and a rotation enforced? Forum speculation seems to be getting nowhere.

3+ years of experience tells me that it makes no difference. Further, recent GM decisions show the exact opposite.

[nilbog]

And then a new variance on top of the current one was added.

Nilbog's reasonable and usually preditctable, but I don't know what the hell he was thinking when he agreed to that.

This was addressed in a news and announcements thread from Rogean:

I'd like to clarify some misinformation that was provided with the latest patch, starting with the lack of a patch note and then an error in confirmation on my part.

Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100681

[Skope]

This was addressed in a news and announcements thread from Rogean:



http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100681

And stayed in for well over a month now with you admitting that it favors a particular set of players on here.

Nilbog, it isn't even remotely fair yet that's what you're asking us to deal with. It's also the exact opposite of what we thought we'd see. It's still going to be here in 10 minutes and will likely still be here two weeks from now.

[Tecmos Deception]

while furiously self-manipulating to enhance his illicit pleasure at the act?

I think I know the answer! Lol :)

[nilbog]

And stayed in for well over a month now with you admitting that it favors a particular set of players on here.

Nilbog, it isn't even remotely fair yet that's what you're asking us to deal with. It's also the exact opposite of what we thought we'd see. It's still going to be here in 10 minutes and will likely still be here two weeks from now.

? I was showing you that it wasn't intentional to begin with, and therefore likely not something I agreed upon.

I still want to progress with simulated patch day respawns and fte shouts. If that doesn't improve the scene, then we can try something else.

It is interesting to note that the pvp server is currently requesting a variance system because one guild kills targets in off time where fewer people can be online. Even though there's a system in place (pvp) that resolves multi-guild poopsocking, the grass is always greener.

[nilbog]

Are we allowed to ask what happened to this or will Sirken forumban us all instantly while furiously self-manipulating to enhance his illicit pleasure at the act?


I'm still on board with this. There will be content parts and source parts necessary.. and I'm ready to start with mine. I think adding the extra, random raid target chance per week would help a lot.. and fill the gaps of missing npcs over the past 2 years. I have heard people claim it will flood the server with loot, but I don't agree with them; it means raids which can kill the target will get loot. We've been making great progress with Velious which will also help alleviate the issue.

[Splorf22]

I'm still on board with this. There will be content parts and source parts necessary.. and I'm ready to start with mine. I think adding the extra, random raid target chance per week would help a lot.. and fill the gaps of missing npcs over the past 2 years. I have heard people claim it will flood the server with loot, but I don't agree with them; it means raids which can kill the target will get loot. We've been making great progress with Velious which will also help alleviate the issue.

The biggest thing this project needs is another source developer. It's been 8 months since that original post. I have nothing against Rogean and Kanras for putting limited time into 1999, but surely we can find someone who is interested.

[Skope]

? I was showing you that it wasn't intentional to begin with, and therefore likely not something I agreed upon.

Sorry, then replace "agreed upon" with "indifference even though you admit that it's a shitty idea." Either way it's dumb and it's still here.

I still want to progress with simulated patch day respawns and fte shouts. If that doesn't improve the scene, then we can try something else.

It is interesting to note that the pvp server is currently requesting a variance system because one guild kills targets in off time where fewer people can be online. Even though there's a system in place (pvp) that resolves multi-guild poopsocking, the grass is always greener.

And that's still a massive improvement over the current system.

Nilbog, you guys had alter the way NPCs behave to keep people from using M+KB recorders just to maintain this horrible FTE/poopsock system we have. Couple that with the added variance that we're having to deal with (on top of dealing with this crap variance for three years), I think you can understand the frustration here.

I know you're level-headed and you're looking out for everyone here, but recently things have gone awry more than usual. Additional variance is added, Sirken makes dumb posts claiming that you can either join the zerg or don't bother (truer words never spoken), and you're going so far as to change the behavior of NPCs to address problems that can easily be solved via a much-needed raid scene makeoever.

When variance was added, people were barking from rooftops (I told you so?) that it would be abused via SEQ. A year later that was proven true more. Now you're forced to deviate even further from classic to placate and pander to these same idiots who've found newer toys. Why contort even further when you can knock out two birds with one stone and bring it back towards something more classic?

Honestly, I just don't get it.

[maverixdamighty]

Sorry, then replace "agreed upon" with "indifference even though you admit that it's a shitty idea." Either way it's dumb and it's still here.



And that's still a massive improvement over the current system.

Nilbog, you guys had alter the way NPCs behave to keep people from using M+KB recorders just to maintain this horrible FTE/poopsock system we have. Couple that with the added variance that we're having to deal with (on top of dealing with this crap variance for three years), I think you can understand the frustration here.

I know you're level-headed and you're looking out for everyone here, but recently things have gone awry more than usual. Additional variance is added, Sirken makes dumb posts claiming that you can either join the zerg or don't bother (truer words never spoken), and you're going so far as to change the behavior of NPCs to address problems that can easily be solved via a raid scene makeoever.

When variance was added, people were barking from rooftops (I told you so?) that it would be abused via SEQ. A year later that was proven true. Now you're forced to deviate even further from classic to placate and pander to these same idiots who've found newer toys. Why contort even further when you can knock out two birds with one stone and bring it back towards something more classic?

Honestly, I just don't get it.

not sure what you expect sirken to say. he said if other guilds joined up they could compete against tmo or fe for mobs. everquest has always rewarded the guilds that put in the most time, mobilized fastest, had refined strats, etc up until they went with instances. not sure why people expect different outcomes here.

[arsenalpow]

Thanks for chiming in Nilbog.

[Skope]

not sure what you expect sirken to say. he said if other guilds joined up they could compete against tmo or fe for mobs. everquest has always rewarded the guilds that put in the most time, mobilized fastest, had refined strats, etc up until they went with instances. not sure why people expect different outcomes here.

That favors them with non-classic mechanics and P99-specific problems.

If things were remotely close to classic EQ you wouldn't have nearly as many people complaining nor would a post like Sirken's seem so idiotic.

And, as Chest said, thanks for chiming in with some feedback, Nilbog. It does mean a lot.

[Agatha]

was going to post something but then i erased it cause it doesn't matter, heres a cute duck.

http://i.imgur.com/XCf4PUV.jpg

[rsloans84]

U dont have to raid just stay outta the drama

[maverixdamighty]

That favors them with non-classic mechanics and P99-specific problems.

If things were remotely close to classic EQ you wouldn't have nearly as many people complaining nor would a post like Sirken's seem so idiotic.

And, as Chest said, thanks for chiming in with some feedback, Nilbog. It does mean a lot.

classic didn't have stagnant content for years on end...

also variance is as much a pain for tmo/fe as it is for anyone else. pretty sure even though you insinuate it helps us both of our guilds would gladly see it gone.

[Skope]

also variance is as much a pain for tmo/fe as it is for anyone else. pretty sure even though you insinuate it helps us both of our guilds would gladly see it gone.

You soak it up by having a much larger raid force. That's something that was never required on live. Consequently, you also have the highest turnover rates on this server -- and the server itself has a very high turnover rate as well. People get to the raid scene, see it for what it is and promptly get the hell out. I can't say I blame them.

That's what Sirken so brilliantly pointed out but that's also a P99-specific, non-classic problem. It exists here and only here is it drawn to such an extreme extent.

classic didn't have stagnant content for years on end...

Then why continue to kill the same stuff for years when they don't need the loot? Do those mobs not spawn under the same variance as they did when people needed it? Does it surprise anyone that you have to keep recruitment open year-round to replace those that have had enough of the time sink?

[maverixdamighty]

You soak it up by having a much larger raid force. That's something that was never required on live. Consequently, you also have the highest turnover rates on this server -- and the server itself has a very high turnover rate as well. People get to the raid scene, see it for what it is and promptly get the hell out. I can't say I blame them.

That's what Sirken so brilliantly pointed out but that's also a P99-specific, non-classic problem. It exists here and only here is it drawn to such an extreme extent.



Then why continue to kill the same stuff for years when they don't need the loot? Do those mobs not spawn under the same variance as they did when people needed it? Does it surprise anyone that you have to keep recruitment open year-round to replace those that have had enough of the time sink?

i'm in a guild that hasn't even been around a year, so not sure why that is addressed at me. i used to be in divinity and when people in the guild complained about it i said the same stuff i said now. if you want the mobs have to put in the time, get organized, and get them not complain to devs and ask for handouts.

[Splorf22]

classic didn't have stagnant content for years on end...

also variance is as much a pain for tmo/fe as it is for anyone else. pretty sure even though you insinuate it helps us both of our guilds would gladly see it gone.

No way Mav. Right now TMO/FE (i.e. the tracking guilds) get almost 100% of the targets. If variance were eliminated, there would be 500 people from 9 guilds sitting on the spawn of every target spamming target nearest mob and then /pet attack or archery or whatever. Since we all know that FE/TMO are far to honest to use autofire macros, it means they'd get maybe 40% of targets.

Now I don't think such a system is really better for the server than the current one. The advantage is that everyone gets a piece of the raid scene, the disadvantage is that that piece is pretty fucking retarded (every mob dies in 20 seconds to 300+ half lagged out players casting ice comet, GMs have to check every kill). My hope would be that after a month of this everyone would just agree to rotate/calendar/carebear/whatever and that the server would be come a bit less vicious at the high-end.

[xCry0x]

U dont have to raid just stay outta the drama

I don't understand why people don't understand the truth in this.

If you want to kill dragons join TMO or FE and be near your computer 24/7.
If you want to raid Fear/Hate/Sky then join one of the 5-6 scheduled day of the week raid guilds.
If you want to play casually play in a casual guild and log in whenever you want.

There is nothing stopping people from raiding. Joining a casual guild then complaining about not getting to kill dragons is like working as a waitress at red robin and bitching about the waitress at the steak house next door getting better tips. If you want to get the better shit then go to the establishment that allows that, but at the same time know the requirements are probably more demanding but hey, welcome to the real world.

[maverixdamighty]

No way Mav. Right now TMO/FE (i.e. the tracking guilds) get almost 100% of the targets. If variance were eliminated, there would be 500 people from 9 guilds sitting on the spawn of every target spamming target nearest mob and then /pet attack or archery or whatever. Since we all know that FE/TMO are far to honest to use autofire macros, it means they'd get maybe 40% of targets.

Now I don't think such a system is really better for the server than the current one. The advantage is that everyone gets a piece of the raid scene, the disadvantage is that that piece is pretty fucking retarded (every mob dies in 20 seconds to 300+ half lagged out players casting ice comet, GMs have to check every kill). My hope would be that after a month of this everyone would just agree to rotate/calendar/carebear/whatever and that the server would be come a bit less vicious at the high-end.

disagree. if this all started with a server reset you wouldn't have the scenario you described. you'd see what you see now with 9 guilds spreading out going after different targets. with no variance the next cycle the top guilds would probably still go after the same first priority mobs, but then have other chars camped at the next level of priorities and start splitting their raid forces. I can't see your scenario happening unless all the mobs were spread out significantly.

also, think you'd be surprised at the fte. i'd put it at tmo/fe getting closer to 80% of the mobs even if it was a crapfest based purely on being used to doing it and most likely having the exact timers from the first go round, but this would be an awful scenario and i'm sure no one wants that.

[Skope]

i'm in a guild that hasn't even been around a year, so not sure why that is addressed at me. i used to be in divinity and when people in the guild complained about it i said the same stuff i said now. if you want the mobs have to put in the time, get organized, and get them not complain to devs and ask for handouts.

Dear God, you are an idiot.

Nobody is asking for handouts nor are these guilds incapable of killing a target because of a lack of organization. We've had raid leaders from FoH in Div, mav. You know full well that we're not exactly noobs. This applies to a good chunk of the raiding population that isn't TMO/FE. The only reason they can't get mobs is because of the nonsensical time sink that's required.

Just to be a "casual" raider on here requires significantly more time than it did on live. To be able to kill VS requires that you camp alts there, fully buffed, and have enough people in your guild to be able to respond at any time of the day. I'm sure it's hard killing trakonan with >60 when the roster includes ~200. And after years of doing that it also becomes much easier to buy trackers, CoTH bots, and whatever else you need to maintain that edge. That's going to be something that's a huge hindrance/cockblock come velious and won't ever be addressed.

It gets to a point where you become deflated and say, "Fuck it. Why bother?" It isn't because these guilds and people are incapable of killing the mob under classic rules and mechanics -- remember most of us have without putting in anywhere near the same amount of time you're putting in -- but rules that specifically favor these massive zerg forces.

After tracking and watching trak/sev/tal and even gore die within minutes of a spawn purely because that other guild has much higher numbers and rules that require it, you stop tracking for good and say, "Fuck it." Then when an even larger variance is added (even if by accident) you have to wonder just what the hell they're thinking...

[arsenalpow]

Actually VS is an encounter where TMO and FE have at least a stall group near/in his room at all times during the window because he's poorly tuned. An evasive warrior and cleric can stall VS long enough for a raid force to log in before evasive drops.

[xCry0x]

Then when an even larger variance is added (even if by accident) you have to wonder just what the hell they're thinking...

If by they you mean the people in TMO & FE that track for 3 days straight.

Well they have a system that promotes people to want to do that. My friend has been apping for 2 weeks and plays a lot, he hit 60 and now he sits and tracks spawns all day. Allows him to build DKP up so he can get gear quicker than if he did his own thing all day and only showed up when dragons spawned.

So if you have people willing to do it, then why not? All I hear is, "I don't want to track mobs 24/7, so nobody else should either."

[Skope]

Actually VS is an encounter where TMO and FE have at least a stall group near/in his room at all times during the window because he's poorly tuned. An evasive warrior and cleric can stall VS long enough for a raid force to log in before evasive drops.

When you've got a plethora of accounts and players to choose from, you can afford to do that. And that's exactly what I mean.

People are claiming that velious will change this but it won't. If the rules stay the same it will only mean more alts and accounts camped at targets and even larger zerg forces. That's exactly what the rules favor, so why stray from that? Are TMO/FE leaving up targets they don't need now? What in the world makes you think it'll be any different come velious?

Server repops are the only thing that's remotely classic about P99's raid scene, and they happen once every few months. That's downright atrocious.

[maverixdamighty]

When you've got a plethora of accounts and players to choose from, you can afford to do that. And that's exactly what I mean.

People are claiming that velious will change this but it won't. If the rules stay the same it will only mean more alts and accounts camped at targets and even larger zerg forces. That's exactly what the rules favor, so why stray from that? Are TMO/FE leaving up targets they don't need now? What in the world makes you think it'll be any different come velious?

Server repops are the only thing that's remotely classic about P99's raid scene, and they happen once every few months. That's downright atrocious.

velious will change that and maybe you shouldn't call other people idiots if you can't understand that, because clearly you would fall into that category. Velious raid targets will be the priority and outside of that you have pom/pog/whichever armor farm zone you decide to go to that will produce better bang for your buck than going back and killing the majority of kunark mobs. also with vindi on a fast timer he is going to be very contested.

[maverixdamighty]

If by they you mean the people in TMO & FE that track for 3 days straight.

Well they have a system that promotes people to want to do that. My friend has been apping for 2 weeks and plays a lot, he hit 60 and now he sits and tracks spawns all day. Allows him to build DKP up so he can get gear quicker than if he did his own thing all day and only showed up when dragons spawned.

So if you have people willing to do it, then why not? All I hear is, "I don't want to track mobs 24/7, so nobody else should either."

thank god someone reasonable. i think the amount of tracking is ridiculous but ffs some of these casual guilds could come after mobs in their prime times, but they don't bother. also fe has said we were willing/open to rotations if stuff could be agreed upon with everyone on non-priority targets.

[xCry0x]

velious will change that and maybe you shouldn't call other people idiots if you can't understand that, because clearly you would fall into that category. Velious raid targets will be the priority and outside of that you have pom/pog/whichever armor farm zone you decide to go to that will produce better bang for your buck than going back and killing the majority of kunark mobs. also with vindi on a fast timer he is going to be very contested.

Not to mention, and correct me if I am wrong on this, but a lot of the high end content in velious requires a larger force than shit in Kunark/Original so it makes it harder to spread out across the world.

Also it is a lot more difficult to move a raid force from Seb to Ntov than it is to move from from Seb to KC, so I would imagine you see a lot more focus on velious content and some more opening in kunark stuff ie trak and vs, which in turn could result in more guilds getting a chance to VP key and contest VP.

The problem is, when velious comes out the bitching will re-focus on how unfair it is that people don't let others try AoW..

[Splorf22]

All I hear is, "I don't want to track mobs 24/7, so nobody else should either."

This is exactly what I am saying and I think it's actually quite reasonable. Tracking is such a pointless waste of time that even if it were classic there would be pretty good grounds for removing it. But again, for the 1 millionth time: variance is not classic. Everyone who is defending variance (and this somehow, strangely, is all the players in the batphone guilds) is doing so purely out of self interest. We have a server where the compass is disabled as being not classic, but huge changes to the raid scene are allowed. That is the only relevant point.

[maverixdamighty]

This is exactly what I am saying and I think it's actually quite reasonable. Tracking is such a pointless waste of time that even if it were classic there would be pretty good grounds for removing it. But again, for the 1 millionth time: variance is not classic. Everyone who is defending variance (and this somehow, strangely, is all the players in the batphone guilds) is doing so purely out of self interest. We have a server where the compass is disabled as being not classic, but huge changes to the raid scene are allowed. That is the only relevant point.

agreed with your sentiment on variance, just disagree on how you think things will play out if it goes back to classic. i know pvp server is different, but as nilbog pointed out people there already complain about the top guild putting timers on off hours so other guilds can't compete. if you think removing variance is going to suddenly allow other guilds to get top priority mobs i'd say you are in for a rude awakening.

[spoils]

The sentiments in this thread must be how everyone else in the world feels about USA...

We live in a free and capitalistic world...and yes the USA is also guilty of cheating sometimes here and there...

Love being an ammurican!

[xCry0x]

This is exactly what I am saying and I think it's actually quite reasonable. Tracking is such a pointless waste of time that even if it were classic there would be pretty good grounds for removing it. But again, for the 1 millionth time: variance is not classic. Everyone who is defending variance (and this somehow, strangely, is all the players in the batphone guilds) is doing so purely out of self interest. We have a server where the compass is disabled as being not classic, but huge changes to the raid scene are allowed. That is the only relevant point.

I agree, but at the same time it is easy to point at a pile of shit and say it stinks.

I haven't been involved in this discussion long as I am new to the server but the only options I have seen are variance (yes/no).

So with variance you get TMO/FE paying people to sit at a spawn 24/7.

With no variance you have every person on the server sitting at the spawn trying to FTE.

I mean, as a cleric, I could figure my way to trak spawn, then try my best to get FTE on him by myself and then have every other guild blow him up, then have GM's say "Halmir FTE, he gets loots". Sweet.

Now I could say, well get rid of FTE and make all bosses immune to mem blur and purely make loot go to whoever gets the exp. Well then you still get the bitch fest where one guild has better gear than the others and is able to consistently steal kills. Hell this could devolve into a 6 man guild getting 100% of server kills because they can manage to out dps everyone, that sounds like fun.

The other option would to make variance worse to motivate people not to track 24/7 but I believe we have already seen that there is ALWAYS someone willing to take over tracking duties for dkp. I think that even if every boss had a 2 week spawn window people would still camp the shit out of them so that doesnt change anything.

So that just raises the question, does anyone have a new idea that would improve things?

[xCry0x]

Except the guild on top cheating, training, ksing, and exploiting. But, hey, you obviously have NO idea what you're talking about or you wouldn't make it seem like this is a legitimate atmosphere of competition in the first place.

What is stopping you from joining TMO or FE?

[Skope]

maybe you shouldn't call other people idiots if you can't understand that, because clearly you would fall into that category.

Then don't post idiotic statements and lies:

if you want the mobs have to put in the time, get organized, and get them not complain to devs and ask for handouts.

Velious raid targets will be the priority and outside of that you have pom/pog/whichever armor farm zone you decide to go to that will produce better bang for your buck than going back and killing the majority of kunark mobs. also with vindi on a fast timer he is going to be very contested.

The respawns will still have a 96 hour variance and having a huge force will still be favored. How is velious going to change any of this when you can't even agree to leave mobs -- that you don't even need!! -- up for everyone else?

Currently you've got rules that no one adheres to and GM enforced rules that favor only a small portion of the population. Despite the fact that they admit it's an issue, nothing has been done for three years to address it and I've got little-to-no hope that anything will be done ever. While Nilbog's post gives a glimmer of hope to the rest of us, I've also been here long enough to know that I shouldn't expect anything until it's implemented and enforced.

You guys spent over an hour training each other (and other poor folks) in Hate the other night. Nothing will happen and, you know what? I don't expect anything to. It'll be a zergfest and more training the next week as well with no repercussions to follow. You're calling each others' workplaces and doing all sorts of dumb shit and nobody seems to care. While I understand that GMs can't be everywhere and keep eyes on everyone, it's also true that they've had multiple opportunities to squash the BS and balked. I'm not talking about instances where there's a grey area, but rather stuff that's absolutely black-and-white (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=966229&postcount=36). Inconsistency, indecision, and apathy breeds anti-social behavior. It just so happens that it's this same anti-social behavior that the GMs say is a problem but have reluctant to address. It isn't until recently with Ephi's endeavor that RMTing is being cracked down on. It also isn't until recently that cheating accounts have been permanently banned. Add the rampant SEQ/MQ abusing that many players have been claiming had been going on for years and you can see why one is frustrated when the only response you get is that you're crying wolf and your complaints fall on deaf ears. These were all things that people had been claiming were huge problems months in advance and they were ignored.

The raid scene is a only a symptom of a much larger problem here. I think the staff should consider being more open and approachable. It wasn't until Sirken posted the reason why the 364 accounts weren't permanently banned that anyone knew of it, yet in that same period of time you lost more people because of the supposed reluctance to ban cheaters than you actually banned cheaters.

[xCry0x]

I was in TMO and removed myself when they merged with DA.

I do not willingly play with cheating pieces of shit. I would rather delete all of my accounts and characters than cheat on EQemu.

Next stupid response?

Then join FE like everyone else who hates TMO?

[maverixdamighty]

Then don't post idiotic statements and lies:





The respawns will still have a 96 hour variance and having a huge force will still be favored. How is velious going to change any of this when you can't even agree to leave mobs -- that you don't even need!! -- up for everyone else?

Currently you've got rules that no one adheres to and GM enforced rules that favor only a small portion of the population. Despite the fact that they admit it's an issue, nothing has been done for three years to address it and I've got little-to-no hope that anything will be done ever. While Nilbog's post gives a glimmer of hope to the rest of us, I've also been here long enough to know that I shouldn't expect anything until it's implemented and enforced.

You guys spent over an hour training each other (and other poor folks) in Hate the other night. Nothing will happen and, you know what? I don't expect anything to. It'll be a zergfest and more training the next week as well with no repercussions to follow. You're calling each others' workplaces and doing all sorts of dumb shit and nobody seems to care. While I understand that GMs can't be everywhere and keep eyes on everyone, it's also true that they've had multiple opportunities to squash the BS and balked. I'm not talking about instances where there's a grey area, but rather stuff that's absolutely black-and-white (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=966229&postcount=36). Inconsistency, indecision, and apathy breeds anti-social behavior. It just so happens that it's this same anti-social behavior that the GMs say is a problem but have reluctant to address. It isn't until recently with Ephi's endeavor that RMTing is being cracked down on. It also isn't until recently that cheating accounts have been permanently banned. Add the rampant SEQ/MQ abusing that many players have been claiming had been going on for years and you can see why one is frustrated when the only response you get is that you're crying wolf and your complaints fall on deaf ears. These were all things that people had been claiming were huge problems months in advance and they were ignored.

The raid scene is a only a symptom of a much larger problem here. I think the staff should consider being more open and approachable. It wasn't until Sirken posted the reason why the 364 accounts weren't permanently banned that anyone knew of it, yet in that same period of time you lost more people because of the supposed reluctance to ban cheaters than you actually banned cheaters.

where did i lie? Maybe you shouldn't ignorantly lump everyone in tmo/fe together and actually play more recently to understand what is happening on the box. I'd like to here what mobs fe is killing that we don't need. Also maybe you never played velious on live hence you don't understand why that will open up more content, because if you did raid in velious you would understand why that would be the clear priority and even when non raid targets weren't up there are other zones that are better risk/reward than the majority of kunark mobs...

[enr4ged]

where did i lie? Maybe you shouldn't ignorantly lump everyone in tmo/fe together and actually play more recently to understand what is happening on the box. I'd like to here what mobs fe is killing that we don't need. Also maybe you never played velious on live hence you don't understand why that will open up more content, because if you did raid in velious you would understand why that would be the clear priority and even when non raid targets weren't up there are other zones that are better risk/reward than the majority of kunark mobs...

I don't think you undestand why guilds like FE/TMO play the way they do. New content is not going to stop them from perma-camping the old.

[maverixdamighty]

I don't think you undestand why guilds like FE/TMO play the way they do. New content is not going to stop them from perma-camping the old.

i'm in FE and in order to win the race in velious you need to be farming the best gear possible, which is in velious. i don't think you understand the dynamics of winning in velious.

[Skope]

Does anyone have a link to that thread where the +/- 48hrs was explained? The one where it was claimed that the reason for adding the massive variance was to avoid poopsocking, adding something like "it's extremely unlikely that a guild will sit..." and the rest of that horseshit?

It's been more than three years of the variance not working yet it's still here. An additional variance is added and still hasn't been removed while we get this:

Rogean: Mobs will no longer immediately aggro players within 3 seconds of spawning, and they will be immune to any non-targetted spells (PB AEs or Targetted AEs they aren't the target of).

You guys are willing and have the time to change the way all the NPCs in the game react to keep a few poopsockers from abusing M+KB recorders but you're asking the rest of us to swallow the changes, which don't benefit anyone outside of those poopsockers, and an additional variance on top of the one that hasn't worked for three years?

Is this a case of favoritism or another case of poor judgment? Is it indifference? What is it? You don't have to answer here and you're probably not going to, but nor should you be upset when we fill in the answers for you. You're veering further and further away from classic and the same principles you claim define the server while claiming to listen to the players' sentiments yet the recent actions show the exact opposite. You don't have to answer here, but be aware that it speaks volumes.

You can care or can not. You can listen or you can ignore. You can admit that the non-classic rules favor a particular class of people (and haven't ever deterred these people from doing what they aren't supposed to be doing) or you can ignore it. You can say that there are changes coming to the server or you can enact changes in the complete opposite direction. But for the love of god, can we get some clarity here?

[Gadwen]

This thread is a real downer.

[Skope]

This thread is a real downer.

The real downer is that a player has to post something like this for them to get it. That's the state of raiding, though. The GMs/staff bitching about the behavior of the players while pandering and bending over backwards to maintain that same douchebag behavior.

But maybe changing the behavior of all the NPCs in the game to maintain a non-classic mechanic that doesn't work and adding another variance on top of it was to the benefit of everyone on the server. Sure, the players said the exact opposite, but what the fuck do they know?

[Gadwen]

The real downer is that a player has to post something like this for them to get it. That's the state of raiding, though. The GMs/staff bitching about the behavior of the players while pandering and bending over backwards to maintain that same douchebag behavior.

But maybe changing the behavior of all the NPCs in the game to maintain a non-classic mechanic that doesn't work and adding another variance on top of it was to the benefit of everyone on the server. Sure, the players said the exact opposite, but what the fuck do they know?

The fact that Rants and Flames even exists should tell you all you need to know about the desire here to bring any kind of change to the raid scene.

[quido]

Rotations are fucking stupid. I was against rotations even when the lack thereof prevented me from killing a single raid mob.

[Thulack]

As much as people hate instancing, this is the exact reasoning behind. People still have to put in their work killing the mobs in instanced zones but it gives everyone a chance at atleast attempting it to see if they are capable of doing the content. I bet more guilds would be capable of killing trak if they could take 45 mins-1hour to actually setup instead of having to try and rush to him and beat out other guilds. Not wanting rotations is a completely selfish approach to game. If guilds are capable of taking out mobs why shouldnt they get a chance without having to wakeup at 6am on a workday or saturday afternoon when they are suppose to do things with their family.

[Gadwen]

As much as people hate instancing, this is the exact reasoning behind. People still have to put in their work killing the mobs in instanced zones but it gives everyone a chance at atleast attempting it to see if they are capable of doing the content. I bet more guilds would be capable of killing trak if they could take 45 mins-1hour to actually setup instead of having to try and rush to him and beat out other guilds. Not wanting rotations is a completely selfish approach to game. If guilds are capable of taking out mobs why shouldnt they get a chance without having to wakeup at 6am on a workday or saturday afternoon when they are suppose to do things with their family.

When competing for mobs in EQ is the most exciting part of your life, you'll understand.

[Thulack]

When competing for mobs in EQ is the most exciting part of your life, you'll understand.

True. I forgot there are people that still get boners playing a 14 year old game.

[xarzzardorn]

go play wow

[heartbrand]

Wow is fun I play both.

[Gadwen]

True. I forgot there are people that still get boners playing a 14 year old game.

P99 raiding is for people that are desperate for a competitive outlet, but don't want to get involved in anything where they can actually "lose". Winning is really awesome in P99, you are the king of the game when you get that spawn and those loots. When you lose, nothing happens...nobody killed you or took your items..they just got loots before you could. It's not about skill, the tactics to kill every single mob in this game have been published for a decade. It's really only about having more people.

It's a safe kind of competition where you can act like a child, never really lose, and feel like you are awesome when you FTE.

[Atmas]

Not wanting rotations is a completely selfish approach to game.

But demanding rotations isn't right?

[sulious]

Wow, many thoughts here in this thread.
Server staff mainly says you are on your own!

Only way I see anyone getting raid mobs without going to TMO/FE is through, building your current guild, tight guild alliances, restructuring, or dare I say asking for help? All this will involve tracking targets, putting in massive time, and the poopsock.

All the rest of this will be considered "falling on deaf ears".

This has been an issue for awhile... I do wish there were more ways to make more people happy. I would support something like this....

[Thulack]

go play wow

Honestly if Brell wouldnt have had a rotation i probably wouldnt have kept playing EQ. I didnt read other servers messageboards so had no idea what other servers did other then the rampant bragging from guilds such as FoH and Afterlife which made me not care for either of them but it didnt matter since i didnt play on their server.

[Gadwen]

But demanding rotations isn't right?

I really want you to elaborate on this argument.

[Atmas]

I really want you to elaborate on this argument.
Quite simply its someone wanting to get more oppurtunities at the cost of someone else getting fewer.

[Vexenu]

I think a token system which allows guild to spawn raid mobs on demand would be an interesting experiment. The trick would be in distributing the tokens in such a way that more serious, dedicated and organized guilds would receive more to fairly reward them for their extra effort. For example, I doubt any guild on the server (outside of FE perhaps) would give a shit if TMO killed Trak or VS at the rate of 5-1 what any other guild got, because even getting 1 of those kills would be a major improvement for casual guilds over the 0 they are practically guaranteed now. The complaint is not that TMO is "winning", it's that casual guilds aren't even in the game.

A token system could also be an excellent way to introduce a plat sink if implemented well. I'm not sure if tokens themselves should be vender purchasable (if so they should be extremely pricey, 100k+ a pop). But perhaps the system for acquiring tokens could make heavy use of plat in the form of quests, expensive tradeskill items, etc... It would also give 60s something to do besides track and farm. Maybe "lesser tokens" could be vendored for 10-25k a pop which spawn a version of the mob that drops no regular loot, but does have a chance to drop a token to spawn the normal, loot-dropping version of the mob.

The fairest way to distribute tokens would probably be to require guilds to do a series of VP/epic style quests and increase their token rate depending on how many members they get "keyed" at certain levels. So the baseline level might entitle a guild to spawn one of each unique raid mob per month, while the highest level could be 1-2 a week. In addition, raid mobs should continue to spawn normally to allow organized TMO/FE guilds to compete with mobilization to get extra kills.

A fun wildcard would also be to have tokens drop RANDOMLY from any mob in the game at a rate of one per week (i.e. 1 Trak token, 1 CT token, etc... would drop per 7 day calendar week). These would be up tradeable items up for grabs for any guild that could acquire them. It would add a fun chaotic element to the server as guilds scrambled to track down each of the dropped tokens for the week, and just imagine the smile on a newb's face when he kills an Orc Pawn and looks a token of Trakanon which he can auction for 50k+.

[heartbrand]

Rotations are like chopping the pot in a mtt. You do it because you want to reduce your variance. Here tho TMO is getting like 98% of the mobs so its -ev for them to chop the pot and rotate. Math bros.

[Thulack]

Rotations are like chopping the pot in a mtt. You do it because you want to reduce your variance. Here tho TMO is getting like 98% of the mobs so its -ev for them to chop the pot and rotate. Math bros.

Yes we get it TMO doesnt want a rotation because it will cut into their loots. DoesTMO own the server though? You would think that nil/Rog would want to keep a majority of their players happy instead of just 10% but to each their own i guess.

[Jezibell]

what is so desireable about blue pixels. Better geared toons have higher hand holding skill?

[Splorf22]

what is so desireable about blue pixels. Better geared toons have higher hand holding skill?

Most of us are just here to relive a few memories, not recreate Furor. EQ is not the crowning achievement of my life.

[porigromus]

I think a token system which allows guild to spawn raid mobs on demand would be an interesting experiment. The trick would be in distributing the tokens in such a way that more serious, dedicated and organized guilds would receive more to fairly reward them for their extra effort. For example, I doubt any guild on the server (outside of FE perhaps) would give a shit if TMO killed Trak or VS at the rate of 5-1 what any other guild got, because even getting 1 of those kills would be a major improvement for casual guilds over the 0 they are practically guaranteed now. The complaint is not that TMO is "winning", it's that casual guilds aren't even in the game.

A token system could also be an excellent way to introduce a plat sink if implemented well. I'm not sure if tokens themselves should be vender purchasable (if so they should be extremely pricey, 100k+ a pop). But perhaps the system for acquiring tokens could make heavy use of plat in the form of quests, expensive tradeskill items, etc... It would also give 60s something to do besides track and farm. Maybe "lesser tokens" could be vendored for 10-25k a pop which spawn a version of the mob that drops no regular loot, but does have a chance to drop a token to spawn the normal, loot-dropping version of the mob.

The fairest way to distribute tokens would probably be to require guilds to do a series of VP/epic style quests and increase their token rate depending on how many members they get "keyed" at certain levels. So the baseline level might entitle a guild to spawn one of each unique raid mob per month, while the highest level could be 1-2 a week. In addition, raid mobs should continue to spawn normally to allow organized TMO/FE guilds to compete with mobilization to get extra kills.

A fun wildcard would also be to have tokens drop RANDOMLY from any mob in the game at a rate of one per week (i.e. 1 Trak token, 1 CT token, etc... would drop per 7 day calendar week). These would be up tradeable items up for grabs for any guild that could acquire them. It would add a fun chaotic element to the server as guilds scrambled to track down each of the dropped tokens for the week, and just imagine the smile on a newb's face when he kills an Orc Pawn and looks a token of Trakanon which he can auction for 50k+.

Tokens given out any other way than random rare drops would be abused. Alts in guilds would form multiple guilds to allow maximum chance for tokens. Say tmo1 tmo2 tmo3, you get the point.

I think random items that are used to remove enraged state of raid mob should drop. All raid targets spawn in an enraged state (hits for 100000000000 and hp10000000000000000 unkillable until item makes it normal) varience would not exist any longer, would spawn as it would in classic. I think they should have a chance to drop off ANY mob level 20+ in the game with only one per spawn cycle, after one is found during a certain time period no others will drop until it is used or poofs. The items can't be saved, will poof after normal spawn cycle of raid mob. This alows it to be used trying to kill the raid boss. After it is used either the guild kills the target or it is left standing for the next force ready. Same rules if a guild was to fail at killing a boss now. The enraged state is gone until next cycle.

Anyone in game would have a chance to find an item to remove enraged state. It can be traded. No more poop socken, no more headaches for server staff. If some sees a flaw in how this could be abused please do tell.

[Gadwen]

Quite simply its someone wanting to get more oppurtunities at the cost of someone else getting fewer.

LOL, right. Two guilds get pretty much everything right now, and one of them gets most of that. Those people telling everyone else they are selfish for wanting them to share is idiotic.

Big difference between having self interest and being a greedy/selfish.

[pharmakos]

The fairest way to distribute tokens would probably be to require guilds to do a series of VP/epic style quests and increase their token rate depending on how many members they get "keyed" at certain levels. So the baseline level might entitle a guild to spawn one of each unique raid mob per month, while the highest level could be 1-2 a week. In addition, raid mobs should continue to spawn normally to allow organized TMO/FE guilds to compete with mobilization to get extra kills.

having to perform quests to get raid-mob-spawn-tokens is an interesting concept. there's always going to be a bottleneck somewhere though, and inevitably this would lead to the same complaints as the current system.

[Skope]

Tokens given out any other way than random rare drops would be abused. Alts in guilds would form multiple guilds to allow maximum chance for tokens. Say tmo1 tmo2 tmo3, you get the point.

I think random items that are used to remove enraged state of raid mob should drop. All raid targets spawn in an enraged state (hits for 100000000000 and hp10000000000000000 unkillable until item makes it normal) varience would not exist any longer, would spawn as it would in classic. I think they should have a chance to drop off ANY mob in the game with a rare enough chance to allow only one per spawn cycle or after one is found during a certain time period no others will drop until it is used or poofs. Tokens can't be saved.

Anyone in game would have a chance to find a token. It can be traded. No more poop socken, no more headaches for server staff. If some sees a flaw in how this could be abused please do tell.

So replace an unclassic mechanic with yet another complicated unclassic mechanic?

You guys can discuss this all you want, this thread and the recent events and patch notes show that nobody knows what the hell's going on. Nilbog stated that he's ready to work on the simulated repops, but he's also admitted that the variance sucks and the additional variance punishes the majority of the server yet Rogean slipped in additional variance and changes the mechanics of every single NPC in the game. A variance that hasn't worked for three years is still here yet you're actually discussing alternatives and have the faintest hope that it'll be enforced? or even considered? that anything will happen at all?

The question here are not what will replace the god-awful variance that hasn't ever worked, but whether Nilbog and Rogean are going to listen at all? Are they willing to make changes? Are they going to admit that the last two additions have done absolutely nothing for the health of the server? Are they going to be on the same page, or is this yet another case of 'We should've done things differently.' Are they going to admit that they actually made a mistake? Are they going to only stating that they listen to the players' ideas and thoughts only to shut them up for a couple of months until it resurfaces again while nothing has been done to placate their legitimate concerns?

How many threads has this been regarding the same nonsense with nothing done about it? I've lost count. All I see for certain are steps ensuring the server goes in the opposite direction of what you guys have claimed would happen.

[Splorf22]

Tokens would work just fine if properly implemented. Make any guild that wants tokens kill the Spiroc Lord in front of a GM; lock any mobs spawned via tokens to that guild, and politely request each player to only be in one token guild (and permaban violaters). It's not rocket science.

It's just that the people that did all that tracking/batphoning feel that no one else should be able to be part of the raid scene without jumping through the same ridiculous hoops they did, like some fraternity hazing ritual.

edit: My preference btw is for simulated repops to start and then we'll see how that goes.

[porigromus]

Then the guild with the most money buys all the tokens and gets all the loot in a never-ending orgy of raids = money = tokens = raids.

So? Then people end up buying raid loot with their money. Who says every one that finds a token wants to sell it? I'm sure some guilds will be happy to take their shot.

[Droog007]

But demanding rotations isn't right?

And here I was, mildly disappointed in my 4yo for not completely grasping the concept of taking turns.

You do understand that you'd still get your turn, right?