Addressing the Economy (mudflation)

[azxten]

Has there ever been any discussion about addressing the inflation in the economy? In the "classic" timeline this server would already be past Planes of Power yet we are still in Kunark.

In classic there was a 6 month timespan between Kunark and Velious. Here it has been more than 2 years.

Are there any money sinks that could be added which wouldn't be detrimental? Anything?

There needs to be a way to remove platinum from the economy. Sony added the Luclin casino by this point where you had a tiny chance of getting a manastone/guise for example.

[citizen1080]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?


Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

[Nocte]

Sony added the Luclin casino by this point where you had a tiny chance of getting a manastone/guise for example.

This would be a fantastic idea. There's a casino in Highkeep that could maybe get tweaked to support this. I have a feeling that the "not classic" folks will chime in, though.

I'd rather have a non-classic casino in place than the non-classic economy we currently have, though. This casino wouldn't have as big of an impact on players as the economy currently does.

[quido]

stop unlocking RMTers

[quido]

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[azxten]

However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

I guess it really becomes a question of at what point this server is so non-classic that we may as well focus on the gameplay instead of pretending anymore.

For example, being able to buy a name prefix or something so you can be "Honorable Joe Blow" or whatever for making a 1,000,000 platinum donation.

Would stuff like this ruin the classic experience more or less than the non-classic economy? Hard call to make.

[Safon]

Is there a precedent for anything remotely like this? Any general non classic change implemented to better the server, I've heard variance referred to as such a change

[maximum]

Click the ads. :cool:

[Anesthia]

1mil for firepot bind.

[Dualform]

Kinda wished kunark or even classic was delayed until velious was ready to go, kunark wasn't meant to last this long =/

[Kagatob]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?

Honestly who cares, the only reason they'd get mad is because their guised character's value would drop slightly (slightly... it still takes 500K-1Mil to get a guise) if they tried to sell it, which shouldn't be allowed anyway.

[Anesthia]

Kinda wished kunark or even classic was delayed until velious was ready to go, kunark wasn't meant to last this long =/

Neither was classic EQ!

*rimshot*

[quido]

LOL people pay that much for an account with a guise? So dumb

a million is the new 100k, BRO

[Fountree]

Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

We're actually over 2 years from Classic at this point on p99. (Kunark release Date March, 2011)

[vulzol]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?


Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

Seconded.

I think all items that no longer drop should have ridiculous pricetags sold at Shady Swashbuckler. If not him, add a casino to HHK where items that no longer drop have a tiny probability of being obtained.

This would suck money out of the economy and make it more classic while offering an avenue for people who came late to the game to obtain items they missed at launch.

Naturally, NOT CLASSIC, so won't be implemented, but fuck, 2 years of kunark ain't classic, might as well add a non-classic feature to attempt to fix the problems created by a non-classic timeline.

[Itap]

Is there a precedent for anything remotely like this? Any general non classic change implemented to better the server, I've heard variance referred to as such a change

[acemac]

the person that solves the economy problem in MMOS will be very rich.

[fadetree]

Item decay comes to mind. Oh wait, everybody hates that worse than inflation.

[Tecmos Deception]

I still think that ideas like this will mostly only remove pp that wasn't really in circulation anyways. It's not like the people who can afford 500k guises have been buying upgrades in EC contributing to some perceived inflation among other players, and it's not like the people whose pp is actually changing hands are too likely to spend it on a 1-in-a-million lottery instead of just buying something that will be useful to them.

And if you made the lottery or prices appealing enough that people other than the super rich are willing to blow a ton of pp on it, then you've gone from being a "nonclassic sacrifice in order to make something else more classic" to "nonclassic sacrifice that only makes things still less classic."


I mean, it might help deal with inflation issues when Velious hits and all the people who have a bankroll they're saving for then would start bringing their pp out of the banks... but I doubt it.

[Rhambuk]

Start a casino and try to scam them out of it like a normal person.

gm intervention is just going to cause veterans to quit, assuming they just remove a ton of plat from banks.

Might as well just do a server restart...

[Swish]

I don't know if Bob is back in full swing but I'm considering getting the old Trade Fed setup going again, with escrow services on account sales etc. I wasn't part of it the first time around but did use the escrow once and it worked well.

You'd all trust me right? :p

[Aaron]

Honestly who cares, the only reason they'd get mad is because their guised character's value would drop slightly (slightly... it still takes 500K-1Mil to get a guise) if they tried to sell it, which shouldn't be allowed anyway.

Notsomuch. Some of us take pride in being here since day one and getting a guise. I still have my accounts with guises and have no intention to sell them. Giving out guises to others would make my toons less unique. Not less valuable.

[Rhambuk]

You'd all trust me right? :p

Yeah I would, though in the past month ive sold..2 accounts and boughten 2 accounts, didnt use an escrow for either, call me naive for being trusting with 1mill plat but havent been screwed over yet.

I think people know that the gms will involve themselves in cases of account scam, its happened before. no real point in trying to scam them out of it if the gms are going to fix it after.

Bob posted they don't in his own personal experience but that was at least a year ago, pretty sure people have posted about being scammed and the gm's helped them sort it though.

To really stop it, just get a bunch of scammer escrow guys, do the trade. delete the plat and not give them anything. plat gone no account sales, just what we want right...

[Daviss34]

Let the free market decide; if we start diddling with the economy, it will only have unintended consequences. When Velious makes it out, things will even out until the same pattern repeats because there are no new, better items to bring down the price of old elite items and thus they will inflate again. No real way to fix this, but there's a lot of ways to make the economy work a whole lot worse.

[Stinkum]

Recipe for Mudflation:


4 lbs Video game with no money sinks
1/2 Cup Kunark has been out two years
1/2 Cup No-lifers farming high end items around the clock
2 Cups Greedy no-lifer EC tunnel rats driving up prices
32 OZ. Rampant RMTing

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

just make it so that gear breaks, just flat out poofs of it fails a save vs rust monster roll, to be rolled every week. So, you may get a new item that breaks after a week, or after 2 years. Sure, you may buy an AoN for 400k that then breaks the next week, poof, gone, dead, with only an empty gear slot to hold your tears

What's that? Not "classic"?

It is as "authentic" as the server economy now is. The p99 peeps are kidding themselves if they think they are "preserving" the classic experience with this level of mudflation and item farming.

I suspect, all they are preserving is a RMT subculture they dare not fuck with, cuz the plat farmers got pics of the gm's diddling rent boys at a fan faire. Just a guess.

[nilbog]

I suspect, all they are preserving is a RMT subculture they dare not fuck with

When I posted the PSA about anti-cheats, I meant it. In addition to cheaters, the ACD has eliminated a lot of RMT. It is a drain on volunteer time resource, and we do it anyways.

Maybe cshome needs to release seized gear at auction :P

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/paulfleet/paulfleet1201/paulfleet120100005/11854100-illustration-of-platinum-reserves-piled-high-in-a-stack.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/05/mcgarrySWNS250506_450x400.jpg

[Swish]

I'm not rich, but there's a lot of people sounding butthurt because they have a platinum deficiency...

[Rhambuk]

I'm not rich, but there's a lot of people sounding butthurt because they have a platinum deficiency...

sold mine for 1mil waited 3days before spending any of it because i was seriously considering redistribution All 1mil to lower level nontwinks in 1k increments.

people would still complain...

[Swish]

If you didn't spend it Rham you'd be taking out of the system, but would it make a dent? /ponder

[citizen1080]

sold mine for 1mil waited 3days before spending any of it because i was seriously considering redistribution All 1mil to lower level nontwinks in 1k increments.

people would still complain...

"You're only giving us all 1k each? If you have ONE MILLION plat you can afford to give us all 10k each at least you tight wad"

[Darkath]

I actually really liked the idea of giving out no-drop guises for 1 mill.

The firepots idea... not so much :(

[raff01]

Just release the darn Velious already !

[Swish]

Just release the darn Velious already !

why can't you wait? :(

http://i.imgur.com/hsctGHP.gif

[cyryllis]

just make a vendor selling pre nerf fungi staff for 5 million each and guises for 1 million each. At those prices, its not like everyone will have them- and it will remove a shit ton of plat from the game

[raff01]

another problem, more concerning, is the growing number of bored people selling their accounts for plat.

[vulzol]

When I posted the PSA about anti-cheats, I meant it. In addition to cheaters, the ACD has eliminated a lot of RMT. It is a drain on volunteer time resource, and we do it anyways.

Maybe cshome needs to release seized gear at auction :P

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/paulfleet/paulfleet1201/paulfleet120100005/11854100-illustration-of-platinum-reserves-piled-high-in-a-stack.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/05/mcgarrySWNS250506_450x400.jpg

sounds like a plan.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

When I posted the PSA about anti-cheats, I meant it. In addition to cheaters, the ACD has eliminated a lot of RMT. It is a drain on volunteer time resource, and we do it anyways.

Maybe cshome needs to release seized gear at auction :P

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/paulfleet/paulfleet1201/paulfleet120100005/11854100-illustration-of-platinum-reserves-piled-high-in-a-stack.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/05/mcgarrySWNS250506_450x400.jpg

What a marvelous idea! You can take over freeport guards and have them act as DEA and FBI agents.

Sell the pimped rides back to them ;) money sink!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

cuz let me see if I am clear on my take: people can farm all they like, that is as old eq as anything. And, some people *love* that angle of the game, as well as the commonlands Trading Pit (lol)

But the problem is the sheer tonnage of plat, not those thing. *That* would be my target on the distorting factor. It inflates prices, it has turned some accounts not only rich in items but astronomically plat rich, but probably because of ... that plat tonnage on the server!

But it is the plat, isn't it?

Item farming and subsequent pricing will follow the plat market, so to speak. There will be no such thing as 1 million plat items if we simply set all accounts of over 1k plat to 1k. Everyone keeps their items. But now, we all got 1k plat. And that would be the Great Plat reset (and yes, 1k)

PS DO IT NOW BEFORE THEY CONVERT TO ASSETS

[Ephirith]

If you want to fight mudflation put your money where your mouth is and sell me a fungi for 75k so these assholes asking 95k can put their tunics in their asses, yes i mad, the end

[Safon]

cuz let me see if I am clear on my take: people can farm all they like, that is as old eq as anything. And, some people *love* that angle of the game, as well as the commonlands Trading Pit (lol)

But the problem is the sheer tonnage of plat, not those thing. *That* would be my target on the distorting factor. It inflates prices, it has turned some accounts not only rich in items but astronomically plat rich, but probably because of ... that plat tonnage on the server!

But it is the plat, isn't it?

Item farming and subsequent pricing will follow the plat market, so to speak. There will be no such thing as 1 million plat items if we simply set all accounts of over 1k plat to 1k. Everyone keeps their items. But now, we all got 1k plat. And that would be the Great Plat reset (and yes, 1k)

PS DO IT NOW BEFORE THEY CONVERT TO ASSETS

Yes, punish those of us who chose to keep our wealth in pp form and not items, sounds fair

[Swish]

stone of jordan, anyone?

[Kagatob]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

[citizen1080]

cuz let me see if I am clear on my take: people can farm all they like, that is as old eq as anything. And, some people *love* that angle of the game, as well as the commonlands Trading Pit (lol)

But the problem is the sheer tonnage of plat, not those thing. *That* would be my target on the distorting factor. It inflates prices, it has turned some accounts not only rich in items but astronomically plat rich, but probably because of ... that plat tonnage on the server!

But it is the plat, isn't it?

Item farming and subsequent pricing will follow the plat market, so to speak. There will be no such thing as 1 million plat items if we simply set all accounts of over 1k plat to 1k. Everyone keeps their items. But now, we all got 1k plat. And that would be the Great Plat reset (and yes, 1k)

PS DO IT NOW BEFORE THEY CONVERT TO ASSETS

Fine with me..I have about 40k to my name =)

[Korisek]

cuz let me see if I am clear on my take: people can farm all they like, that is as old eq as anything. And, some people *love* that angle of the game, as well as the commonlands Trading Pit (lol)

But the problem is the sheer tonnage of plat, not those thing. *That* would be my target on the distorting factor. It inflates prices, it has turned some accounts not only rich in items but astronomically plat rich, but probably because of ... that plat tonnage on the server!

But it is the plat, isn't it?

Item farming and subsequent pricing will follow the plat market, so to speak. There will be no such thing as 1 million plat items if we simply set all accounts of over 1k plat to 1k. Everyone keeps their items. But now, we all got 1k plat. And that would be the Great Plat reset (and yes, 1k)

PS DO IT NOW BEFORE THEY CONVERT TO ASSETS

Or you could just nerf plat gains from NPC merchants and mobs.

[Versus]

stop unlocking RMTers

[stormlord]

Mudflation was also present in the expansions and the various patches. With or without expansions you will have mudflation, basically. However, with expansison you do have additional content. And that can help to keep your veteran players playing. Lets face it, expansions are an attention-getter too.

Here's somethign I wrote nealry two years ago:
... Underlying cause is that there're increasing numbers of levels and things to achieve with each new expansion and addition. Old players continually want new things to earn and to do. As a result, new players have increasing numbers of things they must do in order to max level and skill. Over time, max level and skill becomes unreachable to most new players - this is particularly true for old games. It also bottlenecks the lower levels by restricting them from participating in the top heavy population - the top heavy population is composed of high level players. (This is the case because most games have large populations at first and then, slowly afterwards, the rate of incoming players declines, until it's a trickle. The population becomes top heavy.) The numbers of things to do keeps progressing players busy and unable to reach the concentration of players at the higher end of the level range. So if a new player wants to participate with the top heavy population, they must invest large amounts of time. As time goes by, each new player will have to invest even more time if they hope to participate with the more concentrated high(er) level players.

The answer: mudlfation.
Mudflation is the shoddy answer to a riddle that has plagued mmo's from the beginning. Essentially, you have to keep old players playing, so you add new things to the game. This usually makes players stronger. The problem is this increases the amount of things a new player has to do to reach maximum output. It grows and grows with each addition to the game. To compensate for the huge mountain that erupted and acted as an obstacle to the youngling player, the answer has usually been to speed up progression and hand out candy. You give them what they need to overcome the additions to the game so they can have a hope of reaching the top.

You must keep in mind that with a game like P1999 that has stretched its content (stagnated even), many of the veterans are not even playing. So those items are not mudflating the economy right now. They -will- mudflate it when those players come back, possibly as the result of the Velious release. Despite this, some portion of the player-base will remain (getting max of max) and resources will move around. One of hte biggest reasons players are so efficient is because this game is so perfeclty understood. Players know where everything is and they know what to do. So new items enter the economy with relative ease.

Now, that's the developer side of it. I've tried to explain why developers will mudflate things to keep players from being overwhelmed by a mountain of progression to the top. Hope I did that.

What about players? What do they do to contribute to it?

Mudflation means that the value of things in the game goes down. It means that the 5dmg/19delay weapon you fought so hard to get when hte game launched is now worth almost nothing. The reverse side of it is that now you can get that 5dmg/19delay weapon or something even better for cheap. For a new player this means gaining access to items that would have been greatly powerful when the game was young. For an old player, the story is much the same. However, things are not all rosy...

AS others have mentioned, players that play EC or RMTing can drive costs up. Buying low and selling high is a way to inflate prices just as RMTing will give a motive to sellers to make their prices high. Another consideration is all the plantinum entering the economy. The old(er) players will accumulate thousands and hundreds of thousands of platinum. They will use this platinum to make purchases (like for their alts to twink them) and so drive prices up. This will mean that for new players prices may seem outrageously high. So very good low level gear will be out of reach. However, they should still be able to find more common items for prices that're greatly lower than they would have been when they were initially released into the game.

Don't be surprised when a veteran drops a bag of decent low level gear on you. The thing with a heavily mudflated ecnomy in EQ is that they can drop a load of gear on you and not sweat about it. It's mainly the really good low level stuff that everybody will go after and thus drive hte price up. A veteran will have thousands of plat so spending a few hundred to buy a low level player some gear is nothing. Any rotting gear that's not marketable they'll jsut give away. For a new player, it's great gear.

In conclusion,...

The mudflation will be bad no matter what happens. What I"m worried about is stretching the content (and interest levels) too thin. Velious offers more content and can regain some interest.

[Unidus]

Or you could just nerf plat gains from NPC merchants and mobs.

That fucks all the new players so it wouldn't work. Just wipe the plat of anyone over 100k down to 100k. Cry me a river if you lose your millions blame the slow Velious release.

[citizen1080]

That fucks all the new players so it wouldn't work. Just wipe the plat of anyone over 100k down to 100k. Cry me a river if you lose your millions blame the slow Velious release.

Or..instead of enraging the veteran population...impliment one of the many reasonable solutions listed in previous pages. No drop items on venders for large amounts of plat..manastones, fungi's etc. Or a casino which while was not classic to kunark it was 'classic' to eq.

Or you can give it all to me and I will invest it wisely for our children.

[Unidus]

If they get mad over losing their worthless unused plat then boo hoo. Go farm and make it back instead of screwing the whole server over with inflated prices. This server lost all it's "Classic" excuse with the long time between expansions so you are right a casino in Highpass would work instead of a wipe. Im also all for banning account selling/trading. That's another thing which makes no damn sense with the whole "Classic" crap.

[cyryllis]

how is resetting platinum a good idea. if you seriously think simply erasing peoples platinum which equals destroying their invested time, you are very feeble minded.

the only solution is to implement plat sinks, even if non-classic- or suck it up and deal with the mudflation that has plagued EQ forever. By this point in the timeline we would have shadow haven casino to dump all the excess into if this were live.

[stormlord]

Part of the issue in all this is that where's a market for new players to interact with? Is there even a market for new players? Since they will only have at most 50-200 platinum for transactions, what can they get? It's not a hypothetical question of what could they get for 50-200 platinum, rather, it's a question of Does anybody sell anything that's 50-200 platinum???? The value of platinum has gone down, right? So imagine that suddenly the market is so inflated that the entrance amount is 300 platinum. Anything below that would be useless. It would be like me going to EC and asking what I can get for 1 platinum and getting laughed at.

Who would sell to a new player other than a new player? Are there enough of them to make ends meet? Are there enough veterans to give away rotting gear or to give freebies to make em feel loved?

I think many players don't even bother to sell when they're low level. And by the time they're higher level and want to sell, there's no point at all in selling low plat items for new players.

[citizen1080]

Part of the issue in all this is that where's a market for new players to interact with? Is there even a market for new players? Since they will only have at most 50-200 platinum for transactions, what can they get? It's not a hypothetical question of what could they get for 50-200 platinum, rather, it's a question of Does anybody sell anything that's 50-200 platinum???? The value of platinum has gone down, right? So imagine that suddenly the market is so inflated that the entrance amount is 300 platinum. Anything below that would be useless.

My rough conclusion is there is NO market for them. The only market is donations. So random veterans going around and handing out platinum or giving away rotting gear or giving gear on their dead alts away.

Not many sell that range of items because no one farms something with so little profit in it. Anything 2k or below I give away to people, while I am not the norm i think that overall that is the servers attitude. No one wants to sit in EC and sell 50pp items unless they have no other choice.

Pretty much what you said.

[Ephirith]

Does anybody sell anything that's 50-200 platinum????

Yes

Is there even a market for new players?

Yes

[citizen1080]

If they get mad over losing their worthless unused plat then boo hoo. Go farm and make it back instead of screwing the whole server over with inflated prices. This server lost all it's "Classic" excuse with the long time between expansions so you are right a casino in Highpass would work instead of a wipe. Im also all for banning account selling/trading. That's another thing which makes no damn sense with the whole "Classic" crap.

As much as i hate it when people do this...


Thank you for your opinion Mr. 6 post 1 month old member of the server. We greatly appreciate your opinion due to the vast amount of experiance and wisdom you have gained in your time on the server.

[Unidus]

So it takes 3 years to see that the servers economy is screwed? 5 minutes in EC seeing people selling fungis for 90k and FBSS for 13k is all I need to see. Also not being able to buy any upgrades while leveling up past 50 because I don't have 500k in the bank is also a good indicator of how screwed it is.

[citizen1080]

A year ago when I took a break fungi's were 130k and FBSS have been 10-12k+ since I have been on the server.

Thank you again for your wisdom

[Unidus]

I think it's time for you to take another break you won't be missed.

[citizen1080]

Oh noes! Now i'll never get my epic

[porigromus]

Idea 1

Charge city taxes! To use city resources not only do you need faction but now you need to pay taxes. You want to use the bank in Freeport or vendors, pay a tax. The tax will be adjusted according to your level.

Example:

Joe Bob the 60 ranger would like to use the bank. When you click on the bank vendor, you must pay plat to open the bank slots. Joe Bob has access to this banker now until the bank window is closed. Joe Bob would have to pay a tax again to access the bank again after closing the window.

Idea 2

Upon trading money now there is a percentage that goes to taxes. This can be increased as needed. When selling and buying from vendors there would be the same tax percent. When items are traded among players, there is fee based on rarity of item. Items no longer can be dropped only destoyed or traded.

Idea 3

Place potions with a variety of effects on the shady dealer in EC for a expensive plat cost. One potion could be mana regeration out of combat and health out of combat to reduce down time. Another potion could be teleportation to a random druid or wizard spire. Maybe potions that provide random illusions for fun. I think the abilities shoudl not be as reliable as a classes would be, that is why the randomness and I don't think they should last as long. Would be fun to have potions that may provide SOW but also may levitate you instead, maybe though it makes you move as slow as turtle this time. How about a potion that turns you into a random monster for a short time. This also would be fun for players and the monster alike to battle each other. These things wouldn't be permanent and would get money out of the game.

[citizen1080]

Charge city taxes! To use city resources not only do you need faction but now you need to pay taxes. You want to use the bank in Freeport or vendors, pay a taxes. The tax will be adjusted according to your level.

Example:

Joe Bob the 60 ranger would like to use the bank. When you click on the bank vendor, you must pay plat to open the bank slots.

Not a bad idea...however I don't think many people use banks. Most people have an EC alt they stash their money on.

[stormlord]

Ok it's not hard to do...

Somebody should look through the archives on this forum and check prices for items. Then compare those prices to what they're now or what they were after. If the price went up with time then that indicates inflation. It indicates the abundance of platinum in the economy; which allows for higher prices.

Do this for fungi's and FBSS or whatever.

Get the numbers. I'd like to see em anyway.

It makes sense that the old players will have lots of platinum saved up over the years. It makes sense they might spend mucho plat on alt twinks. However, it doesn't make sense that old players will play forever. Even rolling alts is something only some players will do consistently. Eventually they get burnt out. And because the game has been stuck on Kunark, that's anothe reason old players won't stick around.

For example, it makes sense to me that years and years of farming should mean lots and lots of awesome gear distributed in the economy. Because there's so much of it, it should be cheap.

But what makes sense (one person or another) doesn't always happen. So I'd like to see the numbers. Otherwise, we're all having our own subjective rant and it's not going to be heard.

[skorge]

Or..instead of enraging the veteran population...impliment one of the many reasonable solutions listed in previous pages. No drop items on venders for large amounts of plat..manastones, fungi's etc. Or a casino which while was not classic to kunark it was 'classic' to eq.

This. Add a legacy npc in EC that sells legacy and/or gm event items, only make them *no-drop* versions. Items could include: prenerf guise, prenerf fungi staff, manastone, rubicite armor, RoA, da oogly stick, lr armor, etc.

The hardest thing would be to come up with a good price. For example, manastones are going for 250-300k now. If you add them to this vendor they need to sell for a bit under what a regular manastone is going for now (because it's no-trade version).

[Hasbinbad]

the person that solves the economy problem in MMOS will be very rich.
Whatever you do, don't stop watering the plants with Brawndo.

[Rhambuk]

Whatever you do, don't stop watering the plants with Brawndo.

its got slectrolytes!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?


Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

I'm still pissed they're giving them in GM events. Needs moar oldschool cred :P

edit: Obvious answer is to wipe it clean for velious though. Show us that it's not what we've accumulated but the joy and experience of playing ~ Nilbog would never have it though :P

[Rhambuk]

I'm still pissed they're giving them in GM events. Needs moar oldschool cred :P

edit: Obvious answer is to wipe it clean for velious though. Show us that it's not what we've accumulated but the joy and experience of playing ~ Nilbog would never have it though :P

not a server wipe, but a platinum wipe i think hed be for.

[Gel Mibson]

Platlord and his confidants have been ousted. The world we used to know will soon return to order.

[Hawala]

Item decay comes to mind. Oh wait, everybody hates that worse than inflation.

YES, item decay.

[fadetree]

well, after having thought about it, although item decay is a good mechanic in general, it doesn't actually remove platinum from circulation, just makes it circulate faster. Any kind of actual platinum sink has to involve an NPC.

[Rhambuk]

well, after having thought about it, although item decay is a good mechanic in general, it doesn't actually remove platinum from circulation, just makes it circulate faster. Any kind of actual platinum sink has to involve an NPC.

Item decay would probably force half the population to quit.

Sure that would get rid of a lot of plat since its sitting on rotting accounts.

Personally never liked item decay in any game, find a sweet sword? Awesome! never use it...

[stormlord]

Here's Raph's take on mudflation from a blog entry he made in 2007:
http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/

[Lagaidh]

I remember being frustrated at my old coin tricks no longer working as Velious arrived in live. I furiously nodded at a then years-old article enumerated all of the problems in a persistent game environment. Mudgimping the author called it.

It is going to be a very special recipe that can fix this Achilles Heel in MMOs: to prevent the side effects of mudflation while preserving the feeling of accomplishment when you get new abilities and items.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Not sure I like this idea, but it occurred to me:

Allow the GM's to charge a one time plat fee to check a character for RMT investigations, flags etc before you buy it.

Want to ensure the account you bought is clean? Pay a sizable plat fee and ensure that it is. That might sink some plat. Make the fee large enough to not have the GMs having to check every 30 seconds, but make it small enough so that it gets paid.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Kinda wished kunark or even classic was delayed until velious was ready to go, kunark wasn't meant to last this long =/

careful, you almost backed up into a black hole of logical absurdity.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Not sure I like this idea, but it occurred to me:

Allow the GM's to charge a one time plat fee to check a character for RMT investigations, flags etc before you buy it.

Want to ensure the account you bought is clean? Pay a sizable plat fee and ensure that it is. That might sink some plat. Make the fee large enough to not have the GMs having to check every 30 seconds, but make it small enough so that it gets paid.

Typical big government type. Why not allow the market to handle it?

Sadre's Account Insurance. You pay me 500k, and I cover any losses a bum account causes you.

Why take chances with something important?

How do you know you aren't buying an account run out of some shady internet cafe in Singapore?

How do you know that the AoN you bought isn't "fake"?

You can't, that's the point. But no-worry, no-hassle: with Sadre's Account Insurance, you can trade with confidence.

500k buys you peace of mind. And you really can't put a price tag on that.

I look forward to your business, and value you not only as a customer, but I also like to think, a friend.

[maverixdamighty]

Not sure I like this idea, but it occurred to me:

Allow the GM's to charge a one time plat fee to check a character for RMT investigations, flags etc before you buy it.

Want to ensure the account you bought is clean? Pay a sizable plat fee and ensure that it is. That might sink some plat. Make the fee large enough to not have the GMs having to check every 30 seconds, but make it small enough so that it gets paid.

gm's discourage trading in the first place seems like that would conflict their stance...

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Or..instead of enraging the veteran population...impliment one of the many reasonable solutions listed in previous pages. No drop items on venders for large amounts of plat..manastones, fungi's etc. Or a casino which while was not classic to kunark it was 'classic' to eq.

Or you can give it all to me and I will invest it wisely for our children.

Yes, very insightful. I can see it now: set up a casino NPC in a few of the starting cities. The class of accounts we are talking about -- accounts with 100's of thousands of plat -- will be drawn like moths to a flame. They will not be able to resist! After all, they.... will find it fun to stand around and dump millions of plat into an NPC they *know* is designed to be a plat sink?

Do you think about what you write, or do you just write it, and say a prayer, and then Tebow when no one laughs at you?

A casino will only siphon casual player's plat, as they hope to maybe get lucky and get to be able to compete with the top-heavy accounts and mudflated economy. That is basic. That is what real life casinos are for.

Rich people do not hustle slot machines for kicks. They do not need to be a sucker and hope they get lucky; they are *already* rich.

[Macarena]

-You can camp any item you want in the game, regardless of how much platinum you have
-There is a constant influx of new players and alts who need groups, finding groups is not a problem on this server
-So much money in the economy makes hand-outs to newbies much better then they would be otherwise
-So much money on the economy makes it easy for new players to make a good amount of money in EC buying and selling, personally I've seen 3 new players make a killing doing this in 2-4 months
-People are having a blast playing for a long time and twinking out alts


So where is the problem?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Typical big government type.

I have no idea what you're attempting to communicate.

If you're asking why "government" (read: GM) intervention would be necessary in such a system, it is because the average player has no ability to check such statuses. The closest real world analogy to this is title companies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_insurance) who are allowed to freely parse government records to discern ownership. Such public access would not be allowed here.

Yes, very insightful. I can see it now: set up a casino NPC in a few of the starting cities. The class of accounts we are talking about -- accounts with 100's of thousands of plat -- will be drawn like moths to a flame. They will not be able to resist! After all, they.... will find it fun to stand around and dump millions of plat into an NPC they *know* is designed to be a plat sink?

Do you think about what you write, or do you just write it, and say a prayer, and then Tebow when no one laughs at you?

A casino will only siphon casual player's plat, as they hope to maybe get lucky and get to be able to compete with the top-heavy accounts and mudflated economy. That is basic. That is what real life casinos are for.

Rich people do not hustle slot machines for kicks. They do not need to be a sucker and hope they get lucky; they are *already* rich.

The casino he is suggesting would pay out in extremely rare and otherwise unobtainable items. Yes, those playing (the very rich) would be well informed of its plat sink nature, but they view it as worthwhile given the potential payoff in terms of unique and otherwise unobtainable items.

Do you think about what you write

I'm starting to wonder if you read what he wrote.

[Swish]

where is the problem?

The problem is people want to climb the server's financial ladder to have all the best gear possible for their main and all the alts they want. Not being able to do this easily (WoW mentality etc) means a lot of tears, calls for a new server (where they can hyperinflate but stay on top of it), and forum rage.

I've always struggled to keep a bank balance in line with what a FBSS costs, but I get all the lesser stuff I need (racial armor and a few other nice items for alts) without having to kill myself :p

If having a ~20% haste item or a manastone is really that 'game changing' for you, then you've lost the essence of why you came to play here :/

[Macarena]

The problem is people want to climb the server's financial ladder to have all the best gear possible for their main and all the alts they want. Not being able to do this easily (WoW mentality etc) means a lot of tears, calls for a new server (where they can hyperinflate but stay on top of it), and forum rage.

I've always struggled to keep a bank balance in line with what a FBSS costs, but I get all the lesser stuff I need (racial armor and a few other nice items for alts) without having to kill myself :p

If having a ~20% haste item or a manastone is really that 'game changing' for you, then you've lost the essence of why you came to play here :/

100% truth

[webrunner5]

If having a ~20% haste item or a manastone is really that 'game changing' for you, then you've lost the essence of why you came to play here :/

God though Swish they REALLY do help. :D

[porigromus]

I think one thing the players will let go of their plat for is side games after they bore with current content. That is why I believe there should be potions on the EC shady dealer for a high cost that do interesting temporary things.

We don't need to create no drop rare permanent items, potions would be purchased. People would buy a potion that temporarily turns them into a random monster. This would be a customization of an old feature, monster play.

This would all players and players who are temporarily monsters to PvP for fun. I think there could be a very rare chance to become a raid boss. Think about the spice that could add to a server! A raid force would have to assemble to kill raid boss or wait till temporarily till timer runs out.

[Matasata]

Make all items no drop but sellable to vendors. Add new vendors to EC for people to sell too. Think of it as kind of a work around for a bazaar. Stock the vendors with various "wanted" items all the time but the rest poofs on server reset.

Would also need to reset what the vendors sell and buy items for.

Would completely fix the problem with out completely pissing off everyone unless you really like to flip items in EC.

[Swish]

People would buy a potion that temporarily turns them into a random monster. This would be a customization of an old feature, monster play.

I don't think this made it out of the test server, but it was awesome! You'd basically spawn as a random low level monster (below L15 I think) in any zone and have the chance to PvP a player.

I managed to kill a starting erudite in Paineel as a decaying skeleton, a couple of newbies at the log in Nektulos and even spawned inside Najena once despite the zone being empty. Great fun...griefing levels in the newbie areas made it fun to try rolling an alt there too, you'd see 3-4 mobs that were clearly players (who couldn't communicate other than moving around together) all just jump some player together :D

[vulzol]

This. Add a legacy npc in EC that sells legacy and/or gm event items, only make them *no-drop* versions. Items could include: prenerf guise, prenerf fungi staff, manastone, rubicite armor, RoA, da oogly stick, lr armor, etc.

The hardest thing would be to come up with a good price. For example, manastones are going for 250-300k now. If you add them to this vendor they need to sell for a bit under what a regular manastone is going for now (because it's no-trade version).

Make prices dynamically adapt to meet monetary policy goals.

[vulzol]

Yes, very insightful. I can see it now: set up a casino NPC in a few of the starting cities. The class of accounts we are talking about -- accounts with 100's of thousands of plat -- will be drawn like moths to a flame. They will not be able to resist! After all, they.... will find it fun to stand around and dump millions of plat into an NPC they *know* is designed to be a plat sink?

Do you think about what you write, or do you just write it, and say a prayer, and then Tebow when no one laughs at you?

A casino will only siphon casual player's plat, as they hope to maybe get lucky and get to be able to compete with the top-heavy accounts and mudflated economy. That is basic. That is what real life casinos are for.

Rich people do not hustle slot machines for kicks. They do not need to be a sucker and hope they get lucky; they are *already* rich.

Casino wouldn't be for plat but for rare and/or otherwise unobtainable items that no longer drop. Thus rich players would know it's a time sink but be willing to pay the cost because some of the items (pre-nerf fungi staff) are just that valuable. Considering pre-nerf fungi staffs are running millions of plat on the open market I'd say a casino with chance to win one would suck quite a bit of money out of the economy. Would almost shed a tear for the multimillionaire on the server who hands the casino NPC 500,000 plat only to get nothing in return.

When was the casino put in on Live? SoL, PoP? Obviously not classic era but being in Kunark this long ain't classic either thus creating an economic situation that isn't classic.

Classic is more than just game mechanics + a database of npcs and items.

[xarzzardorn]

the mudflation youre talking about in this thread is a nonissue unless you think buying peridots and other vendor items should be more burdensome. platinum becoming less valuable over time is a benefit to new players, especially casters

freaking out because the numbers are so big is stupid. a trak bp or fungi tunic turnin npc would make more sense than the idiocy being spouted here

[Rhambuk]

I don't think this made it out of the test server, but it was awesome! You'd basically spawn as a random low level monster (below L15 I think) in any zone and have the chance to PvP a player.

I managed to kill a starting erudite in Paineel as a decaying skeleton, a couple of newbies at the log in Nektulos and even spawned inside Najena once despite the zone being empty. Great fun...griefing levels in the newbie areas made it fun to try rolling an alt there too, you'd see 3-4 mobs that were clearly players (who couldn't communicate other than moving around together) all just jump some player together :D

Loved PM a few buddies and myself created and recreated until we were all in the same zone, ganged up and pwnd noobs for like an hour. I was a skel he was a bat and my other friend I think was a wolf. we pwnd all the noobs until they logged or recreated a dif race

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Loved PM a few buddies and myself created and recreated until we were all in the same zone, ganged up and pwnd noobs for like an hour. I was a skel he was a bat and my other friend I think was a wolf. we pwnd all the noobs until they logged or recreated a dif race

First rule of project monster: always delete your loot when you spawn. Cuz fuck newbies ;P

[Rhambuk]

First rule of project monster: always delete your loot when you spawn. Cuz fuck newbies ;P

open inventory destroy bone chips lol

[messiah_b]

Solution to mudflation on your emulated-not-real free server:

1) Okay so login to the game...like the game not the forum.
2) Get a group...put up a flag, talk to people. While waiting read the wiki and become more knowledgeable about this game! If you like to solo - do a quest and read the quest text while looking for solo mobs.
3) Fight some merbz / travel for quest drops. Joke around and have fun. Complement people on their play or be a mentor for someone who is struggling a bit.
4) Get some bubbz of exp and a few drops - you will be surprised but the items you get from actually playing the game are the same quality as the ones you buy!
5) Log out

See you just had fun and it didn't involve plat at all!*

*Does not apply to water flasks, iron rations, or peridots

[Clark]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?


Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

I like this idea! Guises for everyone!!

http://s24.postimg.org/ag6xb8xet/th_CAO5_G30_H.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
windows screen capture (http://postimage.org/app.php)

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Maybe cshome needs to release seized gear at auction :P


♐ Release it and solve this easy! Set up a date an set some extreme high starting bids! You can clear out some plat while getting rare items back into the game.

✓Great job on taking out the Platlord im sure it dented a huge part of the problem but a police style auction off would take out another big chunk and end threads like this.

If MASS people still complain (personally i say kick rocks velious will be coming) , but if its still an obvious problem THAN throw in a vendor with some appearance only items or guises like mentioned..for high prices an leave it at that...yes not classic but as countless others have stated neither is a lot of stuff here on p99.

I believe a simple Platlord wipeout (which is already started one account at a time) and a police style auction (hopefully soon to come) will solve all this though.

[porigromus]

♐ Release it and solve this easy! Set up a date an set some extreme high starting bids! You can clear out some plat while getting rare items back into the game.

✓Great job on taking out the Platlord im sure it dented a huge part of the problem but a police style auction off would take out another big chunk and end threads like this.

If MASS people still complain (personally i say kick rocks velious will be coming) , but if its still an obvious problem THAN throw in a vendor with some appearance only items or guises like mentioned..for high prices an leave it at that...yes not classic but as countless others have stated neither is a lot of stuff here on p99.

I believe a simple Platlord wipeout (which is already started one account at a time) and a police style auction (hopefully soon to come) will solve all this though.

I think getting items actually out of the game is important as well. There should be some way to remove items over time and money. Maybe quest to turn in certain items for no-drop rare items that no longer drop? "Please bring me 6 Fungi Tunics and 6 bat wings to recieve Guise ..." No drop is the key word. Not only do this with super rare items lets get some common items. This is the only way to keep items from alway only entering the economy. "Please bring me 100 diamond earrings and 45 hollowed bone bracers to receive FBSS" (Of course the text would be worded better!) Again NO DROP would be the key word. This could could be completed with any items and multiple items of multiple quantities. You want the tradeable stuff? You still have to buy from players or camp them. This would provide other options for items but all of the rewards would be NO DROP. These could lead to chains, so you turned in a massive amount of crap items for your FBSS, now you need a large amount of FBSSs to turn in for a NO-DROP Guise.

This would get items and plat out of the economy. Let's even combine the two. "Please bring me 100000 plat and 25 fungi tunics for X"

Large amounts of money can be removed as well in the same fashion buy buying some type of no drop items off of vendors or I tstill think temporary potions!

[Shocore]

Did anyone here ever play Kingdom of Loathing? Once you "beat the game" (finish the final quest), you can "ascend" your character, starting again at level 1 but with a single skill from your last play-through. Perhaps offer a similar incentive to high-level players to pay a large, fixed amount, starting again at level 1, with some kind of permanent, No Drop freebie (nothing too powerful, because it would be a special kind of rage being kicked out of a group at level 10 because some guy with his Ascended Sword of Casual Dismemberment wanted to join).

It's not "Classic," but allowing people to experience low-level content again is almost as good, right? Or maybe I'm a stupid newbie with a low post count, I don't know.

[Kagatob]

Loot doesn't really rot on blue. It goes to our best clients. 200k per tooth and item prices are negotiable (discount on items if you buy a tooth from TMO). We are always open to new customers. PM if interested.

Serious. We actually have 3 VP clients currently who have been collecting items. They pay on a per-item basis and so far have gotten some decent drops. There is a short waiting list for the next people we are going to bring in.

This kind of crap goes on on a regular basis... This is disgusting and pathetic, but very true in p99.

Disable MQ, Ban account sales.

I'd love to know what Sirken thinks about this rampant non-classic BS going on on a day to day basis.

INB4 Velious, and 2 year Kunark isn't classic.

[stormlord]

I looked through some old screenshots in May 2010 from p1999.

Here're some prices I found:
Glowing bone callar (neck, 5ac 25hp 25mana 0.4wt) - 350p.
Drake-hide Sleeves (arms, 4ac 3sta 10hp 0.1wt) - 100p.
Foreman's Tunic (chest, 10ac 3str 3wis 0.0wt) - 150p.
Treant Staff (2hb, 10/35 9.5wt effect:root at lvl 18) - 100p.
Black Sapphire Electrum Earring (ear, 2ac 35hp 25mana 0.1wt) - 7000p.
Djarns Amethyst Ring (finger, 9agi 80hp 0.1wt) - 12,000p
Rain Caller (range, 20/45 6str 6dex 200rng 3.0wt effect:firestrike at lvl 40) - 20,000p
Mithril Greaves (legs, 10ac 7str 5svm 3.7wt) - 4000p
Watchman Boots (feet, 5ac 5sta 6.5wt effect:SOW at lvl 10; 1 charges) - 700p

Some of these are within reach of new players; 100-200p. In fact, I remember buying the Glowing Bone Collar off of a merchant in 2010 for like 40p or something. Saved a lot of money.

What're these items priced now? If mudflation is present and twinks don't usually seek out an item, I think the price should be lower, since there should be lots of this (older) item and kunark items are better too. If mudflation is present and twinks usually want an item, the price should be higher (to reflect the larger amount of currency in circulation) and its higher demand/supply ratio.

As for high level players wanting to get the best items, it will be very very expensive due to the large amounts of currency foating around amongst the higher levels. RMT and buying low/selling high (this is not illegal like RMT) will make it worse, but this applies I think to all items that're somewhat desirable.

[Chloroform]

Suggestion make a Vendor or a quest npc that accepts 500k for a guise! id drop that plat in a heart beat!

Easiest answer

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Even though buying guises would eliminate alot of plat. It would be totally unclassic and everyone would then have a guise making it a non legendary item to have.

[azxten]

Even though buying guises would eliminate alot of plat. It would be totally unclassic and everyone would then have a guise making it a non legendary item to have.

Its also not classic to see epic VP accounts being sold for millions of platinum in East Commonlands.

[Rhambuk]

Its also not classic to see epic VP accounts being sold for millions of platinum in East Commonlands.

just because we didnt see it doesnt mean its not classic. People had the ability to do that back then, it just wasnt worth it like it is here.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Its also not classic to see epic VP accounts being sold for millions of platinum in East Commonlands.

Not sure if you know this or not. This happened in classic and playerauctions was also huge on selling accounts for RMT. People act like this shit is new. Its not.

Guises are a legendary item. Sucks there is alot of people banned with them and they are getting more slim to see around. They shouldnt become a common item.

[loneless999]

will still have the same issue with velious as that is the last expansion we will see
2 or 3 years into velious you will be buying a bloodstained tunic for 100k as theres no where for the plat to go

having novelty items to buy for 100.000pp and what not would be a good idea

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Population is going to almost double when Velious hits. Alot of people will be spending their good earned plat on new velious weapons and gear, gems, mq's etc.

[Giovanni]

Just tax all bank accounts a flat percentage. There's no need to sell people stupid titles.

For example, delete 10% of the plat in all bank accounts. Item prices will adjust accordingly.

[Rhambuk]

Just tax all bank accounts a flat percentage. There's no need to sell people stupid titles.

For example, delete 10% of the plat in all bank accounts. Item prices will adjust accordingly.

For the people with millions 10% is nothing, for people with only a few k 10% might hurt them quite a bit..

[Frieza_Prexus]

Another option to keep the guise from being too common would be to sell charged illusion potions of specific types at specific times. You could change them out every few weeks maybe.

[Kagatob]

Another option to keep the guise from being too common would be to sell charged illusion potions of specific types at specific times. You could change them out every few weeks maybe.

This would only work if they were no-drop, else people might hold onto them for resale in the event the GM's remove such a way to obtain them.

[azxten]

Not sure if you know this or not. This happened in classic and playerauctions was also huge on selling accounts for RMT. People act like this shit is new. Its not.

Guises are a legendary item. Sucks there is alot of people banned with them and they are getting more slim to see around. They shouldnt become a common item.

Let me emphasis that again for you...

Its also not classic to see epic VP accounts being sold for millions of platinum in East Commonlands.

[Clark]

Djarns ring still goin strong.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Let me emphasis that again for you...

Its also not classic to see epic VP accounts being sold for millions of platinum in East Commonlands.

Not everything is classic here. Your one of those people who say "not classic" in every thread eh? Guises being bought off a merchant is a really dumb idea. Everyone and their mom will have one.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Y'know...I like my guise. But I LOOOOOVE my firepot bind. Selling firepot binds would be even better :3

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

actually cosmetic items with enormous plat price tags is an excellent idea

was going to troll gaffin but ill let it go

This isnt red. Where everyone has a guise and its no big deal. Troll me. I do not mind. Not here to argue. Just saying why nerf a item then put it on a merchant to sell to anyone. On live they eventually used the Casino system which I could see working here, because its a chance at winning and not just straight up buying it.

[Splorf22]

Not everything is classic here. Your one of those people who say "not classic" in every thread eh? Guises being bought off a merchant is a really dumb idea. Everyone and their mom will have one.

If the cost is 500k? I don't think so. There aren't THAT many people with that kind of cash. A lot of people have that much in total gear, but if everyone wants a guise then pp will become more valuable and items will be cheaper.

[Kagatob]

ok well its really stupid to not use an extremely solid platinum sink which would be invaluable in keeping the economy balanced because a few people would get butthurt they arent the only few with the ability to click dark elf illusion

its not like guise is some hard to get epic or anything, some people just got lucky and googled this server before others.

This pretty much sums it up. That and the post about firepot binds.

[Clark]

http://s11.postimg.org/ltvmikv2b/mathlol.jpg

[ArumTP]

100k guise would be better. More people ~could~ buy it removing platinum faster. Maybe what 100 people could get a 500k guise? Odds got it, the people that got that 500k cash have been on the server when it was dropping and got one already. The "poors" that have like 100k came later on the server, and there is a lot more of them, and likely don't have one already.

[Clark]

http://s21.postimg.org/ajiew319j/guisepic.png

[Clark]

http://s12.postimg.org/h08nm90wt/guise2.png

[Splorf22]

100k guise would be better. More people ~could~ buy it removing platinum faster. Maybe what 100 people could get a 500k guise? Odds got it, the people that got that 500k cash have been on the server when it was dropping and got one already. The "poors" that have like 100k came later on the server, and there is a lot more of them, and likely don't have one already.

I mean if you want to see an entire server of dark elves :D Now if you want to see some sort of casino thus giving the 'poors' a chance I'm totally down, but I don't think they should take a few of the best items in the game and trivialize them.

Anyway, don't worry because there is no way Nilbog is departing this far from his vision of classic.

[Nune]

You know white people - get pp, dont spend it

Kanye Quest

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

yeah gaffins dum as my point addressed

I got your logic. I'm not retarded. Thanks though. I was just stating my opinion. Good luck on a merchant for guises being implemented. Wont happen.

[orsk]

Toss up no drop guises at 500k- 1mill pp a pop...i promise you they would sell like crazy. However, this would royally piss off the very few people left on the server with a legit guise from launch.

Sacrafice the few for the many?


Really any money sink that was for fluff items (or even make the items no drop, that would solve the issues as well. Buy a no drop manastone for 100k) would not be detrimental, other than the age old argument (it's not classic). But as you have stated...we are 1.5 years past classic at this point.

Bob i thought we told you no logic here!

[Vondra]

I think people are blowing inflation way out of proportion.

I left for over a year and just came back a few days ago. Prices on the stuff I recognize has actually gone down. hiero cloaks were like 75k. Now more like 60. FBSS's are 10k rather than 15k. necklace of superiority same as hiero cloak. Fungis were like 150k I think, under 100k now. All sorts of high end but "entry level high end", stuff like rapier of oriin, lamentation etc...down in price.

Hell you can buy the rogue epic right now for what, like 75k? Not exactly expensive considering.

Low end stuff is selling for the same couple hundred gold it was back then.

The stuff that was selling for a few hundred k, the high end tradeable raid drops...still seem to sell for a few hundred k.

I saw someone for a couple days in EC trying to get rid of a runed bolster belt for 90k and apparently having no luck. That was over 200k before.

There might be a few super luxury items that cost more now, due to a small group of long term players with money to afford them, but that's not really inflation.

[Ele]

I think people are blowing inflation way out of proportion.

I left for over a year and just came back a few days ago. Prices on the stuff I recognize has actually gone down. hiero cloaks were like 75k. Now more like 60. FBSS's are 10k rather than 15k. necklace of superiority same as hiero cloak. Fungis were like 150k I think, under 100k now. All sorts of high end but "entry level high end", stuff like rapier of oriin, lamentation etc...down in price.

Hell you can buy the rogue epic right now for what, like 75k? Not exactly expensive considering.

Low end stuff is selling for the same couple hundred gold it was back then.

The stuff that was selling for a few hundred k, the high end tradeable raid drops...still seem to sell for a few hundred k.

I saw someone for a couple days in EC trying to get rid of a runed bolster belt for 90k and apparently having no luck. That was over 200k before.

There might be a few super luxury items that cost more now, due to a small group of long term players with money to afford them, but that's not really inflation.

Between early last year and now, prices are still down overall, but from like 6-8 months ago prices have doubled. Fungis were lowest at ~45k, Rogue MQs 40k, Hieros 30k, NoS 30k, FBSS 5-6k.

People are remember what is freshest in their minds when complaining about this stuff.

[Swish]

You know white people - get pp, dont spend it

Kanye Quest

I thought that was Jews?

[Ezrick]

It was called "The Great Turkey Day Massacre".

There were several games before EQ of course, not even including MUDS. One was called "The Realm". It still exists today.
(http://www.realmserver.com)

It was actually the only online game released by Sierra Online. It was quite successful and while the graphics were a bit hokey, and PvP rife with cheating (cheaters would intercept packets giving away the opponents next move in the turned-based combat) it did entertain us quite admirably for several year before EQ sucked us all in.

What happened was that a new version was planned, everyone was promised that all items and gold would carry over into the new game. They promised the players this six months in advance and EVERYONE hoarded gold waiting on release of The Realm 2.0.

The economy, on release, was a disaster. Combat item decay was part of the money sink, but it was stupidly easy with the 50k gold you had sitting in you chest at the house. EVERYTHING about the economy sucked. The smallest magic items sold for incredible amounts (sound familiar?).

So on Thanksgiving in 1997 they simply took it. ALL of it. Any items that were overpowered in the new version, gone, every character no matter their level was given 10gp. That was IT.

Of course there was great gnashing teeth. Many of us, for weeks, ran around in armor that was literally falling off, because we couldn't afford to fix it. People WAILED.

But in the end, it worked. It was a much healthier game in the end.

Ezzy


WTS a 4 CHANT WRATH! (because real men use adamantium mauls)

cuz let me see if I am clear on my take: people can farm all they like, that is as old eq as anything. And, some people *love* that angle of the game, as well as the commonlands Trading Pit (lol)

But the problem is the sheer tonnage of plat, not those thing. *That* would be my target on the distorting factor. It inflates prices, it has turned some accounts not only rich in items but astronomically plat rich, but probably because of ... that plat tonnage on the server!

But it is the plat, isn't it?

Item farming and subsequent pricing will follow the plat market, so to speak. There will be no such thing as 1 million plat items if we simply set all accounts of over 1k plat to 1k. Everyone keeps their items. But now, we all got 1k plat. And that would be the Great Plat reset (and yes, 1k)

PS DO IT NOW BEFORE THEY CONVERT TO ASSETS

[Rhambuk]

Very harsh, but its the only solution suggested so far that i could stand behind.

Time to make 100 characters to hold 1k each

[citizen1080]

Bob i thought we told you no logic here!

You sound like my wife! =D

Like some people and myself have stated in this thread, prices are actually down from a year ago, quite a bit down on most high end items. The only item I have seen increase in price is manastones.

And not to sound elitist...but the people complaining about prices are new players who see this huge price for a fungi tunic,(half what it was a year ago but again...who needs logic and facts). What they dont seem to get is if they progress and lvl as intended they too can go farm a fungi or any number of items that sell for a lot and all of a sudden...they have money to get what they want.

If they think they should be able to afford a fungi on their first character at lvl 20 they are deluded.

[Rhambuk]

If they think they should be able to afford a fungi on their first character at lvl 20 they are deluded.

but all the other lvl 20's have funig's It's Not FAIR!

[Hawala]

but all the other lvl 20's have funig's It's Not FAIR!

I just got my first fungi and I've been playing since 2010. Granted, it is on my level 21 shaman.

[Swish]

but all the other lvl 20's have funig's It's Not FAIR!

Yep, people look at their McDonalds cheeseburger and consider it unfair that there's a guy in a restaurant over the road cutting into a juicy steak...

Anyone can start today, and once they have a character in the 40s they can begin camping a lot of stuff and start earning their fortunes from there. There's other ways with the sister camp in LFay etc but overall if you want to be "above par" in line with the average amount of plat in the bank you're going to have to work at it.

Starting a new server only leads to the same gripes a year from launch, people just have a strange inability to process that they can be as rich on an old server as they can on a new server...both take some work.

[Ezrick]

Very harsh, but its the only solution suggested so far that i could stand behind.

Time to make 100 characters to hold 1k each

We never knew it was coming until the server went down for the patch.

Ezzy

[Rhambuk]

We never knew it was coming until the server went down for the patch.

Ezzy

I feel for all the farmers.

and I was just kiddin about it not bein fair guys )

[webrunner5]

I have been playing off and on on the Sleeper Server and it is pretty scary how much good gear some of the level mid 30's people have been farming. Not sure who is highest. I have seen a 42 Monk. But just saying if you know what you are doing and where to go there is some damn nice loot to be had even at lower levels.

[Ezrick]

You sound like my wife! =D

Like some people and myself have stated in this thread, prices are actually down from a year ago, quite a bit down on most high end items. The only item I have seen increase in price is manastones.

And not to sound elitist...but the people complaining about prices are new players who see this huge price for a fungi tunic,(half what it was a year ago but again...who needs logic and facts). What they dont seem to get is if they progress and lvl as intended they too can go farm a fungi or any number of items that sell for a lot and all of a sudden...they have money to get what they want.

If they think they should be able to afford a fungi on their first character at lvl 20 they are deluded.

I'm actually comparing to the prices I remember from live. For instance I was quoted 1600pp for a shield that I sold several of for less than 200 back in the day. So no, it's not just the very high level gear that has crazy prices. Every item seems crazy inflated because there is so much extra plat. I can't even afford level appropriate newbie gear on my character because I'm new to 99.

I was even told by 3 different jewelcrafters in EC that they wouldn't bother making gold or electrum jewelry. The one who finally did it for me charged me 3X the combine cost when jewelers used to gladly do it for cost just to get the skill increase for making it.

Right now I'd like to just find a simple magic weapon to kill wisps with. If they are out there none seem to be selling them. If it doesn't sell for 1000pp then no one even bothers with auctioning it. It's just not worth their time and effort.

Its not the end of the world. Anyone who has played on a day 1 server has used mundane gear for many, many levels.

[Dualform]

careful, you almost backed up into a black hole of logical absurdity.
"or even classic"

Yeah, almost.

[Hawala]

the person that solves the economy problem in MMOS will be very rich.

I'm working on my PhD in Economics.

There are several issues:

1) Currency is not controlled.
2) There's no interest rate to offset inflation.
3) There's no borrowing/lending, due to no collateral.
4) Merchants buy the same item even if they have a billion of it, whereas you'd think their marginal utility would be close to zero or even negative for that last item. People should have to find a merchant who doesn't have very many of that item you're trying to sell.
5) Mobs DROP currency, it should only be attainable through banks, or merchants.
6) Mobs DROP gear, although this isn't such a huge problem, because it takes work to farm gear, just like it takes work to make gear IRL.
7) Tradeskills generally produce inferior gear to camping.
8) Certain items are simply unfarmable now, this doesn't usually happen in real life. Their prices skyrocket.
9) Last but not least, patches are being anticipated, people know what will happen and how items are going to change.

[Gadwen]

It was called "The Great Turkey Day Massacre".

There were several games before EQ of course, not even including MUDS. One was called "The Realm". It still exists today.
(http://www.realmserver.com)

It was actually the only online game released by Sierra Online. It was quite successful and while the graphics were a bit hokey, and PvP rife with cheating (cheaters would intercept packets giving away the opponents next move in the turned-based combat) it did entertain us quite admirably for several year before EQ sucked us all in.

What happened was that a new version was planned, everyone was promised that all items and gold would carry over into the new game. They promised the players this six months in advance and EVERYONE hoarded gold waiting on release of The Realm 2.0.

The economy, on release, was a disaster. Combat item decay was part of the money sink, but it was stupidly easy with the 50k gold you had sitting in you chest at the house. EVERYTHING about the economy sucked. The smallest magic items sold for incredible amounts (sound familiar?).

So on Thanksgiving in 1997 they simply took it. ALL of it. Any items that were overpowered in the new version, gone, every character no matter their level was given 10gp. That was IT.

Of course there was great gnashing teeth. Many of us, for weeks, ran around in armor that was literally falling off, because we couldn't afford to fix it. People WAILED.

But in the end, it worked. It was a much healthier game in the end.

Ezzy


WTS a 4 CHANT WRATH! (because real men use adamantium mauls)


In the example here it made sense, they injected way too much money into a brand new game, they set up a flawed system by letting all that wealth carry over so they had to correct it.

Not really the same situation here on P99, assuming that people haven't duped or RMTed all their plat, it was earned legitimately through game play or interaction with other players as it was intended. The fact that there is a ton of plat floating around isn't a mistake. Resetting peoples banks would just kill this server, not simply from people leaving because of it, but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

[webrunner5]

One thing I see, and I am guilty of it also, is just selling items to a vender instead of selling in Tunnel. Flayed Skin, Melee Boots like Deepwater, Colbalt, etc. Hurts the lower people. Not sure what the answer is. :confused:

[Hawala]

One thing I see, and I am guilty of it also, is just selling items to a vender instead of selling in Tunnel. Flayed Skin, Melee Boots like Deepwater, Colbalt, etc. Hurts the lower people. Not sure what the answer is. :confused:

Ironically, the upper bound of the gauntlets is roughly equal to what the vendors buy for. Economics suggests that the lower bound would be equal to what the vendors sell for, if the item were rare. So, this suggests these items are so common it's more of a hindrance to the seller than any potential buyers. This means the spread of 100p isn't typically worth the wait to find a buyer.

In other words, I don't think you're doing any harm.

[Hawala]

Another possible remedy would be to make Bubar or some NPC vendor actually give non-stupid prices for rare items.

Farmers would be able to sell a FBSS for 5k or something instantly, then have the NPC jack the price up to like 20k or something to buyers.

This could quickly suck out a ton of plat.

Obviously resellers with lower spreads would still be profitable.

[webrunner5]

I have never understood why a NPC Vender charges so much for some items. Like a Fine Steel 2 hander. it is like 65 plat or more. You can't get over 5 plat for it on turn in to the NPC. And would be lucky to sell it for 2 Gold to a Noob with no money as an example.

I am sure we have all seen some crazy price like 2,200 plat for a item that sells in the tunnel for say 50 plat. Goofy. :eek: Then at times you can find like a spell that sells for 2k for 20 plat??

[Swish]

Another possible remedy would be to make Bubar or some NPC vendor actually give non-stupid prices for rare items.

I like that idea a lot, for people who don't want to sit around in EC and spend hours vendoring off items its a nice alternative :)

[Ezrick]

In the example here it made sense, they injected way too much money into a brand new game, they set up a flawed system by letting all that wealth carry over so they had to correct it.

Not really the same situation here on P99, assuming that people haven't duped or RMTed all their plat, it was earned legitimately through game play or interaction with other players as it was intended. The fact that there is a ton of plat floating around isn't a mistake. Resetting peoples banks would just kill this server, not simply from people leaving because of it, but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

Not as much sense as you may think. Remember the armor/weapon decay money sink? Well for higher level equipment it took correspondingly more gold to repair. While the change was unnoticeable to a level 1 character, it hit the higher levels HARD. If your gear decayed 100%, it poofed!

What happened was every time you went out hunting with your higher level, you had to go home, (no bank, just a locked chest in your house) put your good gear in chest, and go out to a newbie zone for an hour or more killing faeries naked to earn enough money to repair your gear. It was quite comical :)

Eventually, of course, the economy did recover, but those first few weeks after the massacre were sure interesting.

Of course after the massacre there was "Black Tuesday". That's the day the entire server staff came to work to find Vivendi had bought out Sierra-on-line and laid off the entire staff as they came in the building.

Yes, they laid off the entire staff of a live pay-for-play game. Seens Vivendi had no idea the game even existed and was just interested in the intellectual property of things like Kings Quest etc. I was a guide and we quite literally ran the server for about ten days before they straightened it all out.

Ezzy

[citizen1080]

I'm working on my PhD in Economics.

There are several issues:

1) Currency is not controlled.
2) There's no interest rate to offset inflation.
3) There's no borrowing/lending, due to no collateral.
4) Merchants buy the same item even if they have a billion of it, whereas you'd think their marginal utility would be close to zero or even negative for that last item. People should have to find a merchant who doesn't have very many of that item you're trying to sell.
5) Mobs DROP currency, it should only be attainable through banks, or merchants.
6) Mobs DROP gear, although this isn't such a huge problem, because it takes work to farm gear, just like it takes work to make gear IRL.
7) Tradeskills generally produce inferior gear to camping.
8) Certain items are simply unfarmable now, this doesn't usually happen in real life. Their prices skyrocket.
9) Last but not least, patches are being anticipated, people know what will happen and how items are going to change.

Not saying you are wrong...as I think I got a C- in Econ...but we have most this IRL and our economy is still in the shitter =)

[liveitup1216]

... but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

One wipe in 3+ years of server life would do no such thing. If the server was a year old I'd support this argument still. After all the duping/rmt/stagnation, this argument is no longer valid.

[vulzol]

Not sure if you know this or not. This happened in classic and playerauctions was also huge on selling accounts for RMT. People act like this shit is new. Its not.

Guises are a legendary item. Sucks there is alot of people banned with them and they are getting more slim to see around. They shouldnt become a common item.

My guess is you own one?

@500k, I doubt you'll see everybody with one. Considering the lost accounts with guises then buying a guise from a vendor for an outragoeus amount would likely just maintain the numbers.