Mob Hit Range and Pathing prevent Bard AE kiting?

[wc4482]

Statement: Bards cannot AoE Kite multiple mobs by running really fast in circles and chaining PB AoE Songs.

Let me start by listing possible culprits:
- I am only level 9 (maybe it is easier/possible with a faster runspeed song)
- Ping and Internet connection cause discrepancies between client and server time/space
- Mobs seem to be far enough away yet still hit the bard (sometimes i'm like wth that orc isn't even in AoE DoT range yet he still hit me!) This seems like the biggest problem. Perhaps a video is needed to better explain myself. Have others noticed they take damage from mobs that are significantly out of melee range?!
- Mobs pathing seems to be different from live in a way that makes it easier for the mob to hit you sooner/more often.

Ok I don't mean for this to be a rant or flame at all. I would like to learn from well seasoned p99 bards/other classes as to how viable this time of bard kiting will be in later levels.

Edit: Here is the link to the video explaining the bug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O34ewn5pGTs

Its 2 minutes long of me running in circles with mobs chasing me. If you don't want to watch it all, skip to 1:20. You can see me stop turning and autorun straight at 1:24 and at 1:26 the mobs line up directly behind me and the strike me even though they are so far away that they are almost out of view!

[Gorgetrapper]

The main thing is the AE song ranges are reduced so that bards can't swarm kite entire zones with little to no difficulty.

[wc4482]

Thanks for the reply. Are AE song ranges actually shorter than live? Thats interesting..

Anyway, I feel like I couldn't explain myself with just words so I'm in the process of making a video to better illustrate what I'm talking about. Give me 30 mins to an hour.

[wc4482]

Heres the Youtube link.. Sorry for the bad quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O34ewn5pGTs

My ping was 50-80ms during the entire video.

[Jify]

Large hit boxes. Wasn't entirely sure why we needed it, but there was a logical explanation for it provided by a GM.

Basically, until some major code revamps, we can't AE kite... or swarm kite.

[wc4482]

Large hit boxes. Wasn't entirely sure why we needed it, but there was a logical explanation for it provided by a GM.

Basically, until some major code revamps, we can't AE kite... or swarm kite.

Large hit boxes? What do you mean?

As I mentioned towards the end of the video, it seems that as long as I am continuously turning in a circle (repeatedly tapping turn left or turn right), the mobs chasing me do not hit me, but as soon as I run straight and allow the mobs to be directly behind me (even if they are 10m away) I get hit.

Its almost as if the mobs move across the path in which your character has recently been, they can strike you.

[Gorgetrapper]

Mob run speed is increased slightly to the point where the only way to stay ahead, is to constantly strafe run, with a jump or two here and there.

[wc4482]

Mob run speed is increased slightly to the point where the only way to stay ahead, is to constantly strafe run, with a jump or two here and there.

You should watch the video I posted. I have sow, so runspeed is not the problem.

[mr.miketastic]

It's been explained to me that they do not want bards AE kiting mobs here. It is probably #500099999 on the list of things to look into. Look, if a bard could AE kite like they could on live, then the bards would not be grouping. On this server, soloing seems to be somewhat discouraged, so I wouldn't count on bards getting the same abilities like on live.
If the AE kiting nerf gets to you...Wait till you try charming without a metric asston of CHA.
Just keep getting groups as a bard and you will not miss the AE as much.

[Tiggles]

This server is huge why would they Nerf bards to force grouping? there are times when everything is camped and you have to wait for an xp group.

Maybe they will unnerf when Kunark comes out?

[soup]

It's been explained to me that they do not want bards AE kiting mobs here. It is probably #500099999 on the list of things to look into. Look, if a bard could AE kite like they could on live, then the bards would not be grouping. On this server, soloing seems to be somewhat discouraged, so I wouldn't count on bards getting the same abilities like on live.
If the AE kiting nerf gets to you...Wait till you try charming without a metric asston of CHA.
Just keep getting groups as a bard and you will not miss the AE as much.

See, I don't get this. Why aren't the classic purists in an uproar over it? Anytime anything is up for debate it seems to always come back to "THIS IS HOW IT WAS IN CLASSIC, PERIOD."

[wc4482]

I wish I could change the title of this thread. My findings from the video seem like something is not working as intended.

Running in a straight line away from mobs should result in the furthest distance from them, and as such the lowest chance of getting hit by a melee attack. However that is not the case, a bug exists where running straight away from them causes them to get an attack off.

[Thorjorkill]

You can keep on looking for answers all you want. Hit box sizes, mob run speed/pathing and the way mobs do damage/calc range here are the core issues. Nothing is going to change until a total revamp of those systems get a new pass. I wouldn't hold my breath.

[garyogburn]

Wait, so, bards are nerfed in p1999, being fundamentally different than they were on live?

Why?

[Lazortag]

I haven't read this thread in its entirety because I'm so infuriated at the suggestion in the first few posts that Bards "can't aoe kite". Like, what? I've been aoe kiting 3-4 mobs at a time right now since level 5, and I'm now level 30. Also, we can fear kite ridiculously easily since our fear doesn't have a mana cost, and sometimes that's even faster. You guys are seriously just bad and don't know how to play.

[Gorgetrapper]

Or perhaps getting hit while AE kiting just isn't worth it and just doing snare (or selos) while twisting 3-4 targetable DoT songs is safer and quicker.

[wc4482]

I haven't read this thread in its entirety because I'm so infuriated at the suggestion in the first few posts that Bards "can't aoe kite". Like, what? I've been aoe kiting 3-4 mobs at a time right now since level 5, and I'm now level 30. Also, we can fear kite ridiculously easily since our fear doesn't have a mana cost, and sometimes that's even faster. You guys are seriously just bad and don't know how to play.

Guys just watch the damn video. The reason I haven't tried to AoE kite bunches of mobs my level is because they are getting swings off on me even if they are super far away.

It is probably possible but not efficiently and not safely.

Theres a bug here and I just want it to be more known.

[Jify]

Or perhaps getting hit while AE kiting just isn't worth it and just doing snare (or selos) while twisting 3-4 targetable DoT songs is safer and quicker.

Lol. Much safer, NO WHERE NEAR quicker.

I'd have 5 lvl 50 bards by the time Doug was 50, if we could AE kite. Size of the kite separated the men from the boys.


You guys are seriously just bad and don't know how to play.

:(

[Eyry]

Yea, that is kinda messed up. When he runs in a straight line, he shouldn't get hit from so far away...

[Lazortag]

Guys just watch the damn video. The reason I haven't tried to AoE kite bunches of mobs my level is because they are getting swings off on me even if they are super far away.

It is probably possible but not efficiently and not safely.

Theres a bug here and I just want it to be more known.

Wahhh!!! WAHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHHHHH!!!

Stop whining - yes, mobs can (sometimes) hit from unusually far away, but that doesn't mean aoe kiting is impossible or even difficult. I NEVER played a Bard on live, tried it on here and it seems I know more than most of you noobs.

Here is how you aoe kite at low levels:

1-cast selo's with a drum on
2-equip a lute
3-use the stringed aoe so it does twice as much damage
4-once the mob winces, start casting selo's again (selo's should not have worn off yet though, unless you're a noob) and equip a drum before the casting bar disappears
5-start casting regen, equip a lute before the casting bar disappears
6-aoe another mob with a lute on
7-cast selo's, regen, aoe, and so on, bringing more mobs with you unless you're at precariously low health.

Later you get Denon's Disruptive Discord, so you can have two aoe's going at once. Also, if you're ridiculously faster than a mob you can try twisting the DD spell at the same time, but that's not necessary.

You should also equip the AOE fear as a failsafe, as most of you are noobs and will probably need it to prevent yourselves from dying.

Honestly, it's been about 40 times that someone's gone up to me and been like "WOW ARE YOU AOE KITING AS A BARD HOW DO YOU DO IT?????" I figured out without ever having played as a bard and without looking at guides on the internet or anything, because I thought it was intuitive, but I guess some of you are so unfathomably bad that you can't take a little bit of damage from some enemies without whining about it. It was only a matter of time that someone went to the forums to argue that aoe kiting has been "nerfed", with dumb conspiracy theories about how it was done to encourage grouping (lol?)

And to think this is going to get even easier with the new AC mitigation, and yet you'll still be complaining about how it's "impossible".

[Barkingturtle]

On live AoE wasn't really viable till 18 and DDD, anyway. Honestly, AoE kiting still seems at least doable if not viable here. It was always extremely risky if you weren't good. I've read that swarm kiting just flat out does not work here, though, and that's why I won't be playing a bard, even if it's easily my favorite MMO class ever.

[pogs4ever]

lazor, 3-4 mobbos is totally doable, i have seen some bards go a little over the top with like 25+mobs.

as bard myself, i only kite 3 or 4 mobs because there are some awkward lag skitters/large warp detected server issues (im not a tech person) that cause all the mobs to be able to hit you even if you are really really ridiculously far away. i can take a flurry of hits and then heal it back before the next weird spike happens (doesnt happen often, but it does happen as in the video), its funny to watch bards grab 25 mobs, get lagged and then instantly die. this isnt diablo.

I played in classic and never saw swarm kiting until much later in the progression as players understanding of the mechanics wasnt there yet. i was so jealous when druids started to figure out quad kiting.

[PhelanKA]

Guys just watch the damn video. The reason I haven't tried to AoE kite bunches of mobs my level is because they are getting swings off on me even if they are super far away.

It is probably possible but not efficiently and not safely.

Theres a bug here and I just want it to be more known.

It makes me think of the guy that tells his doctor his arm hurts when he "moves it like this" and his doctor tells him to stop moving his arm like that.

I have the same problems as a necro when kiting mobs. I'm not thinking this is an intentional nerf but rather a synchronicity problem between the server and client. However seeing as how in order to avoid it being a problem all you need to do is run in a tight circle then just run in a circle. Duh.

[wc4482]

It makes me think of the guy that tells his doctor his arm hurts when he "moves it like this" and his doctor tells him to stop moving his arm like that.

I have the same problems as a necro when kiting mobs. I'm not thinking this is an intentional nerf but rather a synchronicity problem between the server and client. However seeing as how in order to avoid it being a problem all you need to do is run in a tight circle then just run in a circle. Duh.

+1

This thread helped me realize this. I wouldn't have noticed the mechanic that I have been complaining about if I didn't make a video trying to bring it to people's attention.

I can finally kite now!



Wahhh!!! WAHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHHHHH!!!

Stop whining - yes, mobs can (sometimes) hit from unusually far away, but that doesn't mean aoe kiting is impossible or even difficult. I NEVER played a Bard on live, tried it on here and it seems I know more than most of you noobs.

Here is how you aoe kite at low levels:

1-cast selo's with a drum on
2-equip a lute
3-use the stringed aoe so it does twice as much damage
4-once the mob winces, start casting selo's again (selo's should not have worn off yet though, unless you're a noob) and equip a drum before the casting bar disappears
5-start casting regen, equip a lute before the casting bar disappears
6-aoe another mob with a lute on
7-cast selo's, regen, aoe, and so on, bringing more mobs with you unless you're at precariously low health.

-1

Everyone with half a brain can figure this out... Trying to do it is a completely different story. I made this thread because I kept failing at kiting and I didn't know why. Thanks to the thread I know how to kite given this server's mechanics.

[Gorgetrapper]

Lazor thinks he's some type of magical bard who did something no other bard on this server can do. It's EASY to AoE kite, but at the risk of getting hit by the mob while trying to hit them with AoE songs. Why risk getting hit by 20+ mobs at once when you can use the more powerful targetable DoT songs without getting hit?

If the range of AoE songs were to be increased, then there would be no difficulty to kiting at all.

Lazor, you're just a terrible bard if you think you "need" to fear kite to kite anything as a bard. I could easily just equip to ssoys, snare, fear and haste myself and kill something that way, but that is dependent on procs to do massive amounts of damage while snaring and fearing mobs that could potentially run into another mob to mess things up.

OR you can just use chant of flame, chant of frost and fufils curtialing chant to do about 150 or so damage in a tick, while not getting hit once, and easily twist it between two mobs at one time, while keeping selos up. If you want to make it even easier, team up with a druid or ranger, have them snare like 4 mobs, and twist all your songs on each mob, taking down 4 at a time with no difficulty at all.