How good is a Manastone really?

[VincentVolaju]

Im a 15 Druid at the moment, and seems like one use of the manastone gives me around 3-4% mana but takes like 10-15% hp. I cant really see why this item is worth so much / so many people want it. I mean I know it doesn't drop anymore but, how good of an item is it really when the ratio's are so bad? I mean you spend more time and mana healing yourself from one use of the manastone that you end up with even less mana from before you even used it.

Is there ever a point where my heal will heal me for more hp then the hp cost of using the mana stone?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Yes, if you consider chloroplast + skin like nature heal spells. On the other hand, think about what a cleric with 2400 hit points can do with a manastone and complete healing.

Manastone is not a twink item.

[Tiggles]

Troll?

[astarothel]

Manastone is not a twink item.

This ^^

Even solo a cleric with a terror forged mask and a manastone is a regen machine. Call of bones + tap to 3%, CH.

[VincentVolaju]

Lol Im not a troll >< a friend really wants me to play and gave me his Manastone to use to level with, it just seemed like it was doing more bad then good for me lol.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Lol Im not a troll >< a friend really wants me to play and gave me his Manastone to use to level with, it just seemed like it was doing more bad then good for me lol.

Get to level 34 as quickly as you can, borrow the stone, cast Regeneration on yourself, and start quading.

[Auvdar]

Planar raids it's useless. However at the end game (either farming, or doing dragons) it's a lifesaver for a lot of classes.

Can't tell you how many times I'm quadding Seafurry's, run out my mana bar, and wish I had a manastone to get some mana back to finish them off.

[VincentVolaju]

I read in another topic that after Classic Manastones are useless because they dont work anymore? What?

[bullet]

They don't work in the planes anymore, only normal zones.

They aren't that good unless your grouped with buffers or you're a druid with regen or a cleric with high hp (takes 1200 hp to regain the mana casted from CH, all xtra hp after that is pure gold) but they are unique and one of a kind :)

It's also a great PL tool for casters if you can heal them. Wizards would be a good example.

[Alawen Everywhere]

In Kunark era, manastones are best for druids. Run your quad(s) until you're oom, port to old world, regen and stone, gate back to your camp, repeat.

[VincentVolaju]

In Kunark era, manastones are best for druids. Run your quad(s) until you're oom, port to old world, regen and stone, gate back to your camp, repeat.

That sounds like it would take longer doing all that porting and running back and forth, then it would to just sit and regen back no?

[ooantipostoo]

In Kunark era, manastones are best for druids. Run your quad(s) until you're oom, port to old world, regen and stone, gate back to your camp, repeat.

Id have to say druids and then Wizards in Kunark era after epics are release. Wizards can just epic shield and keep stoning.

[quido]

I've probably clicked my manastones a total of 400,000 times by now.

[Crover_CT99]

I had wanted to do this, so hopefully it will be useful to the OP.

Manastone as used by me (50 dwarf cleric):

In theory:

1865hp/60hp = 31 clicks.
31 clicks x 20mana = 620 mana.
620 mana - 400 mana(ch) = 220 mana gained per cycle.

Time for one cycle (clicks + ch) = rougly 30 seconds.
Total mana = 2091 (as equipped with above stats).
Amount of mana to med after final ch = 0.82 x 2091 = 1714 mana.

Number of cycles = 1714mana/240mana = 7.14 cycles.
This comes from 0% mana which is rare, so we'll round to 7 cycles.
7 cycles x 30 seconds = 3.5 minutes roughly, we'll call it 4 minutes.
+ another 3 minutes to get to FM meditating regularly = roughly 7 minutes to FM.
Compared to roughly 13-14 minutes to med normally to full at 50 with my stats.

So in theory almost twice as fast with the caveat you have to actually participate in your mana regeneration and you might annoy people with spam! :eek:

Empirical Evidence:

Regular Meditation
19:50:18 - Started meditating from 1% mana.
19:59:48 - 9 minutes 30 seconds to get to 82%.
20:01:53 - 11 minutes 35 seconds to get to FM.

Manastone Method
20:05:50 - Started meditating from 1% mana.
20:09:10 - 3 minutes 20 seconds to get to 82%.
20:11:05 - 5 minutes 15 seconds to get to FM.


Ratios/Conclusions
9.5m/3.33m = 2.85 times faster to 82% using manastone.
11.58m/5.25m = 2.2 times faster to full mana using manastone.

Can't use it in planes and you can't use it past classic (as I understand), but if you live for today and not tomorrow, it is definitely worth it as a cleric.

[ooantipostoo]

I had wanted to do this, so hopefully it will be useful to the OP.

Manastone as used by me (50 dwarf cleric):

In theory:

1865hp/60hp = 31 clicks.
31 clicks x 20mana = 620 mana.
620 mana - 400 mana(ch) = 220 mana gained per cycle.

Time for one cycle (clicks + ch) = rougly 30 seconds.
Total mana = 2091 (as equipped with above stats).
Amount of mana to med after final ch = 0.82 x 2091 = 1714 mana.

Number of cycles = 1714mana/240mana = 7.14 cycles.
This comes from 0% mana which is rare, so we'll round to 7 cycles.
7 cycles x 30 seconds = 3.5 minutes roughly, we'll call it 4 minutes.
+ another 3 minutes to get to FM meditating regularly = roughly 7 minutes to FM.
Compared to roughly 13-14 minutes to med normally to full at 50 with my stats.

So in theory almost twice as fast with the caveat you have to actually participate in your mana regeneration and you might annoy people with spam! :eek:

Empirical Evidence:

Regular Meditation
19:50:18 - Started meditating from 1% mana.
19:59:48 - 9 minutes 30 seconds to get to 82%.
20:01:53 - 11 minutes 35 seconds to get to FM.

Manastone Method
20:05:50 - Started meditating from 1% mana.
20:09:10 - 3 minutes 20 seconds to get to 82%.
20:11:05 - 5 minutes 15 seconds to get to FM.


Ratios/Conclusions
9.5m/3.33m = 2.85 times faster to 82% using manastone.
11.58m/5.25m = 2.2 times faster to full mana using manastone.

Can't use it in planes and you can't use it past classic (as I understand), but if you live for today and not tomorrow, it is definitely worth it as a cleric.


Solid write up thanks dude.

[aresprophet]

Also keep in mind that the 1:3 ratio for mana:hp means that for a Cleric HP items add 1/3rd their value to your mana pool each CH cycle. So if you sacrifice, say 40 wis for 300 HP you've given up 400 mana in your pool but you've added 100 mana to each Manastone cycle.

You'd have a smaller mana pool but you'd be regenerating it faster, so swapping wis for HP is only a good call if you regularly can stop for about 30 seconds between fights to stone up for a full cycle. It's not for everyone but it certainly could help in some situations. Cleric's soloability isn't exactly legendary, which is a shame because solo situations would be ideal for hp-oriented gearing. Also, some HP items give a significant boost in the slot compared to equivalent wis items (earring and rings being the most notable) while some slots (primary/offhand/boots/shoulders) should probably stay wis no matter what.

[Crover_CT99]

Also keep in mind that the 1:3 ratio for mana:hp means that for a Cleric HP items add 1/3rd their value to your mana pool each CH cycle. So if you sacrifice, say 40 wis for 300 HP you've given up 400 mana in your pool but you've added 100 mana to each Manastone cycle.

You'd have a smaller mana pool but you'd be regenerating it faster, so swapping wis for HP is only a good call if you regularly can stop for about 30 seconds between fights to stone up for a full cycle. It's not for everyone but it certainly could help in some situations. Cleric's soloability isn't exactly legendary, which is a shame because solo situations would be ideal for hp-oriented gearing. Also, some HP items give a significant boost in the slot compared to equivalent wis items (earring and rings being the most notable) while some slots (primary/offhand/boots/shoulders) should probably stay wis no matter what.

What you said is true.

My general method, for better or worse, was to keep my wisdom as close to 200 as possible while managing hp gear. The only time I would sacrifice some wis for hp (possibly dipping to 195wis or so) was when it actually added a manastone click.

That being said, while the manastone didn't really add to my list of soloable mobs necessarily, it drastically increased the efficiency and amount of named mobs I could fit into a solo camp session, if they were open.

Not to mention its benefits to group play. Add a 50 shaman and buff reso + naltron + talisman + stam + chloro and the cleric shall never be low on mana, even with the most overzealous of pullers.

[VincentVolaju]

So is there really no point to having a Manastone once Kunark comes out? I mean, when Kunark comes out will everyone always be there and not in Classic anymore? Is there any point of doing stuff in Classic where you can use the manastone, after Kunark is out?

Also little off topic but how much will a Fungi be worth when it comes out? Im wondering if maybe I should just sell the manastone now for pp, or trade it for a fungi later?

[Auvdar]

There is still things in classic you could do when Kunark comes out. I mean, I'll still farm seafurrys and a few other spots even with Kunark out. Hell, I'll probably spend a few levels on seafurrys in Kunark.

[Crover_CT99]

So is there really no point to having a Manastone once Kunark comes out? I mean, when Kunark comes out will everyone always be there and not in Classic anymore? Is there any point of doing stuff in Classic where you can use the manastone, after Kunark is out?

It just depends on your priorities and play style.

I have heard the argument the manastone will go up in value when kunark comes out and vise versa. I'm not really sure to be honest.

If you don't care one way or the other then selling it is a decent option, you can bank 40k (or whatever they are worth atm) and do what you want with it.

Just for perspective, the manastone has been the most game changing item I've gained (perhaps tied with jboots). It is also the item I have had the most fun using while playing. Any normal items you might buy with the proceeds from the manastone will become obsolete as well anyway. Probably the only justified use of the 40k from a trade angle would be to fund jewelcraft.

If I were you, I would rejoice that you were gifted such a cool item that no longer drops. Trust me that aside from dragon/god loot you should have no problem completely suiting yourself out classic style without selling it.

[PhelanKA]

Just for perspective, the manastone has been the most game changing item I've gained (perhaps tied with jboots).

Jboots>Manastone IMO. I'll take a positive constant over a system that requires positive compensation for it's drawbacks any day. The Manastone is situational whereas the Jboots are always a benefit, no matter what.

I'd take both though if I could :p

[Crover_CT99]

Jboots>Manastone IMO. I'll take a positive constant over a system that requires positive compensation for it's drawbacks any day. The Manastone is situational whereas the Jboots are always a benefit, no matter what.

I'd take both though if I could :p

Jboots can only be used outdoors! =P

[Phallax]

Jboots can only be used outdoors! =P

Manastone can only be used in classic EQ non planes =P

[PhelanKA]

Jboots can only be used outdoors! =P

Yeahbut....

Run speed increased indoors is not much of a force multiplier.

Yeah...

Whatever. I prefer fashion over function. I can wear the #&@$ outta some boots. Manastones not so much. I rest my case.

[aresprophet]

What you said is true.

My general method, for better or worse, was to keep my wisdom as close to 200 as possible while managing hp gear. The only time I would sacrifice some wis for hp (possibly dipping to 195wis or so) was when it actually added a manastone click.

That being said, while the manastone didn't really add to my list of soloable mobs necessarily, it drastically increased the efficiency and amount of named mobs I could fit into a solo camp session, if they were open.

Not to mention its benefits to group play. Add a 50 shaman and buff reso + naltron + talisman + stam + chloro and the cleric shall never be low on mana, even with the most overzealous of pullers.

Thing is, micromanaging your manastoning in a non-solo situation is difficult. You're not often going to be able to cycle up to 100% in a group. Squeezing in one cycle now and then when the puller is out of mobs is quite feasible but requires communication and timing. It also makes maximizing your cycle's mana regen all the more important.

The more HP you have the more efficient one cycle is and, equally important, the fewer cycles it takes to get to FM. The difference between 150 wis and 200 wis at 50 is only 500 mana, which is a mere 25%-30% of your total pool anyway. If you can convert that to 360hp you've got 120 more mana per cycle, which is huge. On a 30 second cycle that's an extra 20 mana per tick on top of the 240 or you you can already pull in. 60 mana per tick while standing? Eat your hearts out, necros (err, not literally. I know you're into that kind of thing).

The exact math on this depends heavily on BIS options for both mana (and wis) or hp (and stamina) in each slot at 50. In the case of a boots slot, the 9 wis from GEBs vastly outweighs 15 hp from Kobold Hide boots. But for the ear slot, 35 hp is worth a lot more than 3 wis (although you'll obviously want an Ivandyr's Hoop if your race can wear it, making Dark Elves ideal clerics). The face slot is also clearly a wis item, while the 80 hp on a Djarn's is going to outweigh a 6 wis ring. So on and so forth. Items like Paw of Opolla that double dip HP and mana are great, as is black sapphire jewelry and a Platinum Tiara.

More hp = more efficient manastoning in the short term. In the long term it's almost a wash because you're looking to get to FM and having a smaller mana pool isn't exactly desirable. But in a group situation where you're never going to sit at FM anyway, HP is king for clerics with a manastone.

It's a totally different game for druids.

[VincentVolaju]

Thing is, micromanaging your manastoning in a non-solo situation is difficult. You're not often going to be able to cycle up to 100% in a group. Squeezing in one cycle now and then when the puller is out of mobs is quite feasible but requires communication and timing. It also makes maximizing your cycle's mana regen all the more important.

The more HP you have the more efficient one cycle is and, equally important, the fewer cycles it takes to get to FM. The difference between 150 wis and 200 wis at 50 is only 500 mana, which is a mere 25%-30% of your total pool anyway. If you can convert that to 360hp you've got 120 more mana per cycle, which is huge. On a 30 second cycle that's an extra 20 mana per tick on top of the 240 or you you can already pull in. 60 mana per tick while standing? Eat your hearts out, necros (err, not literally. I know you're into that kind of thing).

The exact math on this depends heavily on BIS options for both mana (and wis) or hp (and stamina) in each slot at 50. In the case of a boots slot, the 9 wis from GEBs vastly outweighs 15 hp from Kobold Hide boots. But for the ear slot, 35 hp is worth a lot more than 3 wis (although you'll obviously want an Ivandyr's Hoop if your race can wear it, making Dark Elves ideal clerics). The face slot is also clearly a wis item, while the 80 hp on a Djarn's is going to outweigh a 6 wis ring. So on and so forth. Items like Paw of Opolla that double dip HP and mana are great, as is black sapphire jewelry and a Platinum Tiara.

More hp = more efficient manastoning in the short term. In the long term it's almost a wash because you're looking to get to FM and having a smaller mana pool isn't exactly desirable. But in a group situation where you're never going to sit at FM anyway, HP is king for clerics with a manastone.

It's a totally different game for druids.



Do that again, but with a Druid this time. <3 lol

[Taluvill]

I think you guys are straying a bit off topic here.

The kid is a druid, and everything Alawen said here is absolutely 100% correct. it is the most function able, amazing item for a druid. I still use it to quad specs/ hg's for cash when they are open and available and im not raiding. It's quite god for wizards as well, but they cant pop themselves with regen like us druids can.

It is a very good item. Do not sell it. Regardless of what happens, its a great item for quadding through kunark/velious, and it is a great item to have because it doesn't drop anymore. The price WILL go up when the amount of manastones dwindle from people hoarding them for alts or players quitting and manastones roting on unused characters. My dad has 2 rotting... I cant imagine the amount of old school players that quit that lost theirs.

[Crover_CT99]

More hp = more efficient manastoning in the short term. In the long term it's almost a wash because you're looking to get to FM and having a smaller mana pool isn't exactly desirable. But in a group situation where you're never going to sit at FM anyway, HP is king for clerics with a manastone.

I agree with your premise but never did extensive testing with a massive +hp gear set. I would assume this would be situational on group make-up, skill and awareness, as well as the type/location of camp.

My char has no planar gear, so I was always eeking out some hp here and there. I never did get GEBS (I'm on break), which would have "allowed" me to slot hp rings while staying at 200 wisdom. With a reed belt I could even drop the abalone gorget for a sapphire necklace (which I should do anyway - the gorget just made me feel special).

But I digress...

Yeahbut....

Run speed increased indoors is not much of a force multiplier.

Yeah...

Whatever. I prefer fashion over function. I can wear the #&@$ outta some boots. Manastones not so much. I rest my case.

Haha. However considering my addiction to manastone clicky clickies, it could probably have been considered a fashion statement.

[Ytrafik]

nice examples but don't forget you have to pay 40k-50kpp because it no longer drop and that's quite hard to get one because a lot of player even ask more to sell them.


***
WTB Manastone :)

***

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'm sick to death of trying to convince people of the truth. Sell your fucking manastone if you don't like it.

P.S. Taluvill and I are two of the top ten druids on the server.

[Noleafclover]

Jboots>Manastone IMO. I'll take a positive constant over a system that requires positive compensation for it's drawbacks any day. The Manastone is situational whereas the Jboots are always a benefit, no matter what.

I'd take both though if I could :p

SoW pots > Jboots =p

[aresprophet]

Do that again, but with a Druid this time. <3 lol

It's a good item. Chloro + SLN + sitting = 15 hp per tick = 1 stone every 4 ticks = 5 mana per tick. It's about 2 mana per tick at 34 with just Regen.

You can also "preload" those ticks of mana, stoning down to about half hp and letting it regen up while you med. Shortens med times significantly.

But the main draw of a manastone to a quadding druid is how it extends your mana pool. If you don't have a manastone at 34, you cannot quad spectres without a lot of medding during the kite. You'll simply run out of mana. With a MS at 34 it's doable but difficult if you have less than 200 wis. MS allows you to make quad pulls without having FM if you rely on the stone to push your mana pool up for the last few nukes. I run around 1200 hp which gives me up to 400 extra mana in my pool for quads. But HP converts to max mana for druids with a MS, while for clerics it converts to mana regen. Mana regen trumps a bigger mana pool every time.

Clerics CH changes the use of manastone entirely, but druids make good use of it.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Manastone is fantastic for rezzing. With self buffs i'm at 2250 hp. With shaman buffs i'm at 2650hp (I have a +HP set for outside planar rezzing).

cheal = 400 mana
stone is 60 hp for 20 mana
1200 hp to = 1 cheal
anything above 1200hp is pure gain from stone -> cheal
so for 2250 i have 1050 or 17 ROUNDED DOWN, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ROUND DOWN =x.
17x20=340 mana per stone / cheal. Takes about 30 seconds to stone down / cheal--it vastly out paces medding.

With shaman buffs:
2650hp -1200 hp (cheal break point) = 1450 hp
24 stones
24x20=480 mana per stone / cheal. Two stone / cheals and you're beyond that of the cost of one rez in about a minute.

In summation: It's a cleric item solo, but i've seen quite a bit of use with it with a cleric +1 combo. With an enchanter partner who can turn 500 mana or so (as he's not funding the cheal but has substantially less hp) it served us quite well duo'ing efreeti lord, where resists can happen and being oom can be a huge problem.

Enjoy. I'm still waiting on sky but i may skulk around in a bit ~_~

[Taluvill]

I'm sick to death of trying to convince people of the truth. Sell your fucking manastone if you don't like it.

P.S. Taluvill and I are two of the top ten druids on the server.

Ha. :cool:

I would go farther than that, to say top 5, but yeah. Pretty much.

But i love how the guy is a druid and everyone has turned this into a cleric cheal thread = P

[Crover_CT99]

Aw, come on. Thread title says "how good is a manastone, really" - which we answered, both within the context of the item, and in the case of a few posts, in the context of a druid.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Aw, come on. Thread title says "how good is a manastone, really" - which we answered, both within the context of the item, and in the case of a few posts, in the context of a druid.

Aye, i just wanted to show the value of a +HP set for manastone rezzing. It's enormous--cuts it down by a few cycles. I'll never get my lustrous russet gloves though, /qq :(

[JayDee]

Wizards can just epic shield and keep stoning.

Endless mana ftw.

I cant imagine playing one without it when epics are released. it's a shame because by that time, its gonna be a pita to attain one if you dont have alrdy.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Endless mana ftw.

I cant imagine playing one without it when epics are released. it's a shame because by that time, its gonna be a pita to attain one if you dont have alrdy.

atm it appears manastone isn't damaging runes (enchanter runes, which are functionally the same as the epic). It appears you may have a problem come kunark o_O

[Gnada]

Manastone is fantastic for Druids and Clerics right now. As a druid, I make great use of mine all the time, it saves me tons of time which is absolutely invaluable to me. We'll worth the plat I spent, and as a druid at level 50, making plat is very, very easy. It's a good investment, as it makes that easier.

[nicemace]

my stone gives me tons more mana as an enchanter.

troll illusion is the bomb.

troll + chloro + SLN = sex

ill generally stone once or twice after each spell while waiting for cooldown before casting next spell.

[Amra]

So they had Manastone in when P1999 came out and then decided it was OP, and removed it from the game? Just curious of the time line of the manastone on this server as I am a recent addition!

Having a good time running Uguk and really feels like the old days with all the training/Ksing =P