How do we get more players?

[Galacticus]

It seems that most problems on this server would be solved if more people were on the server.

Is there an argument to not have more players?

How can we change things to get more players?

What is keeping people from playing here?

How can we address those issues?

[aborted]

1. Take away xp death
2. Grouping xp bonus thats better than soloing. (atleast to 50)

[Tippett]

aborted is right I even solo on my ranger at 45 rather than grouping because even though hes' a shitty soloer it's still better exp then grouping (lol)

[Faerie Blossom]

I say let the blues transfer over :)

[Grumpurt the Terrible]

Grumper iz new. Yu lik Grumper? Be Grumper friend.

[Galacticus]

1. Take away xp death
2. Grouping xp bonus thats better than soloing. (atleast to 50)

Boom - its patched in. Rogean posted new patch notes on the main page.

You think people will just start flocking to the server at that point or do we need to do more?

[raitheon]

Largely I think its due to the community at large. Judging solely by forums; blues trolls are nicer than Red's trolls.

Get your trolls spayed and neutered today!

[Sirken]

1. Take away xp death
2. Grouping xp bonus thats better than soloing. (atleast to 50)

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text

[Andis]

Put in the YELLOWTEXT already... what is taking so long?!?!

[Cars]

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text

Pretty legit, would love to see player transfers as I honestly think you would see a massive spike in the high end competition scene.

[Tippett]

the transfer thing is incredibly unfair,

do you have any idea how much easier it is to level a rogue or warrior to 60 on blue then here?

[Vile]

Yellow Text doesn't solve anything... still funny you guys think this will save the server.

Is it nice? I guess, if you think its cool to brag when you kill some naked toon over and over at his bind point and seeing your name in global chat...

YT is awesome when mass pvp is going down, that is for sure, but it will become a griefer's paradise, and only add to the size of some base dwellers e-penis... which will cause these newbies getting pwned by epic rogues with fungi's in unrest, over and over , to be shamed in YT and end up quitting.

Another reason YT is gay... unfortunately I will use Lord Spiroc Xantille as an example. This dude was the king of the slain message.. seeing someone's name spammed in YT because they happen to get the lucky killing blow is pretty lame imo :)

It proves nothing.

Does it help the server at all?

NOPE.

If you kill someone, type /timestamp and take a screen shot and post a thread about it and talk shit in there... you guys are retarded.

1. Take away xp death
2. Grouping xp bonus thats better than soloing. (atleast to 50)
3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.


Is a SOLID list.. to start on imo. Like Sirken's list, YT should be the last priority imo.

[Cars]

the transfer thing is incredibly unfair,

do you have any idea how much easier it is to level a rogue or warrior to 60 on blue then here?

Traditionally speaking, your right. realistically speaking, your wrong. Any class that can't solo does the same thing on both servers, they get power leveled by friends. On red they have an experience bonus and their pick of almost any zone in the game, on blue they are sometimes FORCED to group cause there is nowhere left to power level.

Maining a melee, or a hybrid on red is almost impossible as a first character whereas it is not entirely on blue, but blue is almost at the point where if your non-twink your just leeching from the people your grouping with and often times that just leads to people soloing or duoing anyways. I guarantee you, whether I were to be getting power leveled, or starting a new character the traditional way I would max level on red before I did on blue.

In the end, I am biased. I want to take my blue chars to join the rebellion and it just so happens that it's a pally and a rogue. The difference is if they don't allow transfers I am still going to get our friends druid to 50 and power level our alts to 30 for a head start.

[Tippett]

You are retarded if you think you start a warrior here right now you will make it to 60

On blue if I started a warrior I could easily make it to 60 there is groups available the entire way

I suppose of the 160 people on red about 30 have a friend who would PL them somewhat.

I don't think its far to the other 130 that people can level toons easily on blue and then move then over.

[Cars]

You are retarded if you think you start a warrior here right now you will make it to 60

On blue if I started a warrior I could easily make it to 60 there is groups available the entire way

If I wanted a warrior, I could definitely get him to 60 on red. What your not listening to is the part where I agreed with you that as a first character, it is almost impossible.

[Tippett]

Also I'm not against transferring but I feel like it should go both ways (So I can quit red and go to blue if they allow blues to transfer here)

[Sirken]

i think its kinda cute that you all think i meant "yellow text" when i said:

7. PvP text




also
Also I'm not against transferring but I feel like it should go both ways (So I can quit red and go to blue if they allow blues to transfer here)

will never happen :(

[Tippett]

I agreed with you that as a first character, it is almost impossible.

not impossible on blue that is the point

its actually easy altho 25% more time consuming then if you could find a perma group on red (do not exist)

[Cars]

not impossible on blue that is the point

its actually easy altho 25% more time consuming then if you could find a perma group on red (do not exist)

It will be far more than 25% slower. Saturation is as big of a problem on blue as low pop is on red.

[Tippett]

will never happen :(

why

the exp is only 25% faster here and there is no groups at all, period, nadda.

the leveling here is much slower then on blue (not considering quad classes)

[Xantille]

How DARE you, vile. All of my kills were GM sanctioned 1v1s, bro

[Cars]

I don't see the huge threat to the server that a lot of people do with blue transfers and I also think it's retarded for people to feel slighted by players transferring to red "without earning it on red". There are pros and cons to the grind on both sides and no player on blue or red had it as easy as the poeple on red when the full xp bonus was active.

The population increase that you would see with the blue transfers should absolutely trump (in a positive way) any negative feelings you would have about the way those characters got there because the biggest issue on this server right now is population (as long as only no-drop items).

Increased population would increase grouping.
Increased population would help the raid scene.
Increased population would help the PvP scene.

[Tippett]

yeah entire failed guilds transferring over and joining nihilum for easy raiding sounds awesome

[Elderan]

I might be ok with transferring but only with NO GEAR/ITEMS at all.

Can you imagine the massive account sales the week before this is announced. The pure nightmare.

I have 2 blue level 60s I would move over. But I don't feel loot earned on blue is the same as earned on red. For good or bad, neither should be allowed to keep it when transferring.

I am still pretty much against transfers though. I was on live as well.

[Tippett]

ive decided im cool with transfers just please announce 3 months in advance so i can level my troll sk and be like the 3rd 60 sk on whole server on red haha

[mostbitter]

The reality of blue transfer is in my opinion not going to be a population increase over the long term, but instead another avenue for throwaway accounts and bad behavior. How many accounts are for sale on blue? What prevents someone from training on red, and bringing a blue character over to replace the toon they just chucked at a raid force with no regard for its well being?

[HippoNipple]

I don't think anything else needs to be done to attract new players but more of what needs to be done to keep players. It seems like new players have joined the server steadily but the population isn't really budging. That means people are quitting as fast as people are coming.

The attention Sirken has been giving the server is a big positive. Also it looks like some changes are soon to come. Sirken has said countless times he agrees that pvp exp penalty is a bad thing. No matter how a gm feels about a subject they wouldn't voice it unless it was in the works, it is their job to defend the server even if they don't agree with it.

With the attention Sirken has been giving these posts you know the people in charge at least know what the people want. Pay close attention to what Sirken says and you will get some hints on what is to come.

Also don't get upset if you don't get what you want. Everyone states if what I want doesn't happen the server will fail, but not everyone can have their ideas implemented. This is obvious but people are way to black and white with their opinions on here.

[Vile]

How DARE you, vile. All of my kills were GM sanctioned 1v1s, bro

Love you Xant... there is no denying you're a king of the kill shot.

And you know as well as me... the players here with the downs they have... truly will believe their YT kill shot = the equivalent of a GM sanctioned 1v1..

[SamwiseRed]

the ONLY way blue transfers should be allowed is they are just that, transfers. carbon copies is absurd, you are basically getting 2 toons for the price of one. not classic.

[Cars]

the ONLY way blue transfers should be allowed is they are just that, transfers. carbon copies is absurd, you are basically getting 2 toons for the price of one. not classic.

although it hasn't been explicitly stated, it is painfully obvious that you would not get a duplicated version of your character on red well retaining that same char on blue.

[SamwiseRed]

i remember them saying copies of blue toons before. maybe a few months ago.

[Holey]

fUK ur Xfers!!

bluebies have ruined their own lands they will NOT ruin mine!

if they are loud to transfer ill quit.

[Kraftwerk]

Haha man....we had low numbers on all our ct attempts today including some bad luck
..gg to fe, but.im still trying to find out how they wiped to CT today with 50 people the first time, and almost wipe to CT with 60 on the second attempt. We had 27 on our attempt and got ct to 1%. Grats on your darkwood trunk bros. And grats TMO on another BiS robe through velious.

Just took this post from blue forums, let me summarize it:

-Blue focuses on PvE only, yet the top tier raid forces are wiping with 30-50 man raids. I hate Nihilum as much as the next person but at least they (and us) can down mobs with just 24 people.
-Based on the above, we on Red are better than Bluebirs at PvE, and based on BotB, we are better at PvP
-Xfers would be a shitshow, bluebs would get wrecked. That's the real reason none of them play here

[Sirken]

The reality of blue transfer is in my opinion not going to be a population increase over the long term, but instead another avenue for throwaway accounts and bad behavior. How many accounts are for sale on blue? What prevents someone from training on red, and bringing a blue character over to replace the toon they just chucked at a raid force with no regard for its well being?
um, itd be the same account. so it would be banned on both.

fUK ur Xfers!!
bluebies have ruined their own lands they will NOT ruin mine!
i lol'd irl

[Infectious]

1) Xp loss on pvp death
2) Xp bonus on pve
3) Xp bonus for full group that scales. Depending on number of members in group.
4) Anything else I would rather see gms time be used on velious.

[Elderan]

good start
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.


I CANNOT stress enough this is the WORSE idea for this server.

Without ANY GEAR or items may be reasonable. But allowing someone to bring gear into a server which runs completely different is a TERRIBLE idea.

[Tippett]

just increase exp, server had more ppl when exp was higher doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out

[Elderan]

I CANNOT stress enough this is the WORSE idea for this server.

Without ANY GEAR or items may be reasonable. But allowing someone to bring gear into a server which runs completely different is a TERRIBLE idea.

I am going to reply to myself to clarify.

This server is PVP, mobs are killed and defended for a reason. Allowing someone to BYPASS this by simply getting a fully vp/dragon geared char from blue is just a deal killer for many people.

Cant compete with high end guilds on red? Never raided high end mobs on red? Just buy a well geared char on blue and transfer it. THIS WILL HAPPEN.

The only way I would support char transfers is naked. All spells above level 50 are removed.

[SamwiseRed]

im kinda for transfers now, just so i can see nillys reaction :)

[mostbitter]

um, itd be the same account. so it would be banned on both.




I think you misunderstand. What I mean is, account A belongs to red player F. Red player F trains with account A, and purchases account B from player G. Also applicable is account B is bought for the sole purpose of being used for high risk activity such as boxing, hacking, training, whatever.

[Sirken]

sirken touched my weiner
SS or it didnt happen

i think most of you missed my post regarding these xfers:

also, nobody ever said this was happening, and i wouldnt count on it happening. im just saying how it would be done.
so everyone relax

I think you misunderstand. What I mean is, account A belongs to red player F. Red player F trains with account A, and purchases account B from player G. Also applicable is account B is bought for the sole purpose of being used for high risk activity such as boxing, hacking, training, whatever.
you sir need to have a bit more faith in us than that. we obviously would take certain precautions, and it would have only been a 1 time thing (not an ongoing option).

[Holey]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrwA2N2U4NZfwNsvno8miVd9UhAwKcP 37UlIzlYZyTIwZSoUJjdw

does this count? (just trolling)

[Heavydrop]

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text

What he said.
Not that I'm saying there needs to be character copy/transfer, etc.
I don't care about that personally.
Red has a bad image and some of its players calling those of us who play on blue
names and unmanly and all that doesn't help the cause of red.
I've done my time in EQ pvp back in the day.
I played on Rallos Zek, and admittedly I wasn't very good at pvp, but I still played
there.
I can't devote the time and energy to that like I used to.
I need to be able to go afk and not worry that I'll get ganked, therefore I don't
play on Red.
Of course that is the nature of the beast. PvP will happen.
Most people don't want to bother with it because its the unknown and too many
things can happen.
To me the exp loss on death isn't that big of a detractor. Not when there is
such an exp bonus in effect, right?
I'd rather loose some exp than some expensive item.
I have guys on Red but for now they stay camped

[Smedy]

Allowing blue to transfer to red with their no drop gear would immediately kill red99 (kill as in the state the server was in 6 months ago).

Looks good on paper yes, "wooah more pvp, and more players!!" Nope.

Reality: They would all join nihilum and only logon for the raid sunday securing the fate of the server once and for all.

This is what nizzar wants, don't get trolled that this is actually a good idea.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I CANNOT stress enough this is the WORSE idea for this server.

Well then, enjoy your 77 average players server.

If everyone on blue is horrible at PVP as you reds claim, what's the big deal? You don't want an influx of players from the playerbase most likely to create that influx for you when its not easily killable newbs wearing cloth?

[Smedy]

How to increase population.

1. Introduce yellow text
2. Greatly increase grouping experience between 1-50 (200%+)
3. Increase grouping experience 51+ (ya make it worth grouping for high end too).
4. Remove hybrid SHARED group penalty, let hybrids suffer their own shit, don't let the rest of the groups suffer for their sins, then people will group with them.
5. Don't grief newbies, unless you're in rags yourself, aka not heartbrand style lvl 24 epic rogue with fungi.
6. Stay competitive, don't join whatever guild is on top just to get a quickfix, server would be a lot more fun if there was 3 big guilds competing...

[Smedy]

Well then, enjoy your 77 average players server.

If everyone on blue is horrible at PVP as you reds claim, what's the big deal? You don't want an influx of players from the playerbase most likely to create that influx for you when its not easily killable newbs wearing cloth?

All you blue fucks would do is joining nihilum and claim you did something in pvp.

If they can manage someway to hardcode all the blue players into their own guild so that they would HAVE to compete with the rest of the server then sure, go ahead... hell transfer over with full gear for all i care, as long as you don't join the already huge zerg.

[Smedy]

There's a reason there huge pressure from blue wanting to transfer over to Red right now...

Few weeks ago they made a patch that widen the random spawn timer window making it possible for mobs to skip spawns for hours thus resulting in horrible poopsocking events that will last for days.

Blue people finally cave in and want out of that shit, meanwhile on red99 the exiled blue pals (who were banned on blue) are thriving in pixels from mobs these blue people could only dream of seeing without sitting and waiting for weeks.

I don't buy any of that shit bros, population is great, but only if it actually spreads out and creates a new faction

[Twain]

Allowing blue to transfer to red with their no drop gear would immediately kill red99 (kill as in the state the server was in 6 months ago).

Looks good on paper yes, "wooah more pvp, and more players!!" Nope.

Reality: They would all join nihilum and only logon for the raid sunday securing the fate of the server once and for all.

This is what nizzar wants, don't get trolled that this is actually a good idea.

You do realize with more population, we would be able to stop recruiting heavily. The reason we recruit so much is because of the turn over rate of new apps. Every month we get 5+ new apps. Next month, we might have 1 of them still playing. The last few raids we have rangers or monks tanking and 4-5 dps classes lol. We have not even finished VP so why would we quit recruiting. If we had say 20-30 people switch over from blue, sure we would get a few apps out of it. We would be able to pick and choose a few key classes that we need though. We wouldn't just take anyone because we wouldn't need them. Increase in pop is increase in pop, however you look at it. What kills pop is the exp loss on pvp. I could careless if I died because I'm max exp on Twainz. My biggest problem is the opposition running and plugging every chance they get. PvP is so boring on this server that I created alts just to PvP. The only time I can get PvP on my main is if I attack a group of players or if I can find someone in the middle of a zone. If we removed the exp loss, I'm sure people would stay in fight. No one wants to PvP for hours just to have to exp for days or weeks to get back.

[Smedy]

oh ya actually forgot about the xp death on pvp, that needs to removed as well for increased pop

i see what you're saying twainz but comments i've gotten from people inside nihilum echo in my head about "recruiting until we can take down AOW is our goal".

To me that means you're looking to field around a 100 strong.

Even on blue99 that is considered a zerg, so if you go for that youll soak up pretty much all of the new people.

I want more factions, more people fighting for the same shit.

[Twain]

oh ya actually forgot about the xp death on pvp, that needs to removed as well for increased pop

i see what you're saying twainz but comments i've gotten from people inside nihilum echo in my head about "recruiting until we can take down AOW is our goal".

To me that means you're looking to field around a 100 strong.

Even on blue99 that is considered a zerg, so if you go for that youll soak up pretty much all of the new people.

I want more factions, more people fighting for the same shit.

I'm with you Smed dawg. I want some PvP. I'm tired of all the bullshit that is PvP on this PvP server. I started playing here because I wanted that classic shit I never got to experience. Hell yea I wanted to raid the content that I am currently raiding. I never did it on Live. But never in a million years did I want to learn about Plugging, Insta plugging, and Gate poting. When I played on TZ, I can't remember anyone running. You would always fight, even if you were out numbered. Hell yea we would grief each other, but it didn't matter. We PvPed for PvPsake. The exp loss is whats driving this server down.

[Smedy]

XP loss on pvp is the prominent factor for me quitting my monk, simply not having gate and losing 6 hours of xp on lvl 59 for dying in pvp had me knowing on the inside that i will never be able to pvp full time on my monk, cause if you put yourself in harms way on a melee character, you'll bound to die if you have some balls, as a caster that gate saves me every damn time, which in the long term means i get to pvp more cause i don't have to grind back that fucking exp.

I'm completely with you here, the xp on pvp death looked good on paper at the beginning of server but in reality it's horrible, promotes everything that pvp isn't.

[Twain]

Not to be a Grammar Nazi, but that was one of the longest run on sentences ever =)

[lite]

honestly , PVP exp deaths have to go. Nothing is more important. If I was an Ogre SK you'd never catch me in PVP. It's bad enough on a Bard who can escape 99% of the time. Even casters that can gate out, do so in order to avoid deaths. people would be willing to take much bigger risks if it didn't imply in the case of an Ogre SK, that this death is gonna lead to a 6 hour grind session.

[lite]

too many times did I hear about people rage log over losing exp, which in this server is not very easy to come by. I am sure plenty rage logged without saying a word, and plenty went on to quit the game altogether. Not trying to make this a Nihilum vs Azrael thing at all, but this is specially tougher for the underdog team, or any player trying to come up on this server for that matter. A lot of people will be prepared to take a lot more chances, if they don't have to concern themselves with additional grind sessions, just so they can take another shot at getting ahead. Regardless of this being a hardcore game, there has to be some level of accommodation for the more casual folk. When one death implies the next day you have to grind to compensate for it, your stay here becomes very questionable, very quickly.

[Galacticus]

can you guys hear that silence? its red99 staff

OH LOOK ITS THE TOMATO KING!


http://nashvillearts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Tomato-King-Queen.jpg

[Vaut420]

It seems that most problems on this server would be solved if more people were on the server.

Is there an argument to not have more players?

How can we change things to get more players?

What is keeping people from playing here?

How can we address those issues?

wipe it clean from all the exploit!

[Hangerbaby]

EQ was originally a thing because of the community. The community gets ruined by very few people when it is already small in size.. that's probably all I need to say about that.

(cliffs: people are jerks)

[Hangerbaby]

wipe it clean from all the exploit!

This is why I quit. Sad to say but the only way to get me (or my brothers and friends) back on the server... is to eliminate the server as is, restart it with all the exploits patched up, and hope the shitty assholes don't get back to exploiting other things

[Sirken]

server will never be wiped or restarted.

ever.


this is not VZTZ.

[Swyft]

This is why I quit. Sad to say but the only way to get me (or my brothers and friends) back on the server... is to eliminate the server as is, restart it with all the exploits patched up, and hope the shitty assholes don't get back to exploiting other things

As I've stated in other thread Ban by Ip/Mac instead of account and wave bye bye to exploiting assholes for good

[Shrubwise]

In response to OP, clearly the way to get more players is strip their blue accounts, sending them into a fit of rage, which they then migrate over to our server seeking blood. If the server pop goes up at all in the coming weeks, we can all thank Lord Nizzar.

[Kringe]

As I've stated in other thread Ban by Ip/Mac instead of account and wave bye bye to exploiting assholes for good

You keep saying ban by IP/Mac like this is some strong armed tactic.. You do know most computers these days have dual network cards... And if they don't a Network card is like $10,00... Which would also reset your IP Addy... Please stop posting this useless information until you get a clue wtf your talking about.

[Hangerbaby]

You keep saying ban by IP/Mac like this is some strong armed tactic.. You do know most computers these days have dual network cards... And if they don't a Network card is like $10,00... Which would also reset your IP Addy... Please stop posting this useless information until you get a clue wtf your talking about.

IP address is typically static and assigned by your ISP. Banning by IP is effective up until a proxy is used. Mac addresses are attached to network interfaces and can be changed.

Both of these methods are far more effective than banning by account. This is a fact. YES people can get around it, but it is a serious inconvenience for your average joe who just wants to scam and cheat their way through EQ

[Galacticus]

IP address is typically static and assigned by your ISP. Banning by IP is effective up until a proxy is used. Mac addresses are attached to network interfaces and can be changed.

Both of these methods are far more effective than banning by account. This is a fact. YES people can get around it, but it is a serious inconvenience for your average joe who just wants to scam and cheat their way through EQ

Depending on your provider, you can just unplug your modem and when you plug it back in you get assigned a new IP. If someone wants to find a way, with a proxy or whatever its much easier then even finding like a cheat program or whatever people use.

[Splorf22]

4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam

This is one for me. I keep wanting to try red, and as an enchanter I can solo for XP without problems, but then I log in and get immediately spammed in ooc with RNF bullshit. I don't mind a good flamewar but its always the neanderthal 'u mad bro' 'no i killed u' type stuff. Then I log back on to blue and flame Sirken on the forums for not removing variance! Conclusion: happiness comes from within?

[Nirgon]

this is not VZTZ.

You're right, xp is way slower

budum tss

[Shrubwise]

You're right, xp is way waaaaaaaaahhhh

[Tradesonred]

Theres some good input on how to get the server growing in this thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102750&page=28

Between pages 30-36 and theres some other good input throughout that thread

Id compile everything into an organized post but i got a disrespectful response from Sirken (your input is garbage blablabla) and i cant tell if devs are reading any of this or not, so this is as much effort as i can bother to make to help the server help itself.

[Silent]

This is one for me. I keep wanting to try red, and as an enchanter I can solo for XP without problems, but then I log in and get immediately spammed in ooc with RNF bullshit. I don't mind a good flamewar but its always the neanderthal 'u mad bro' 'no i killed u' type stuff. Then I log back on to blue and flame Sirken on the forums for not removing variance! Conclusion: happiness comes from within?

I agree at times theres a lot of useless ooc babble of stupid shit that will stem from someone going "soandso down" and then it begins. "ur noob, y u so mad?" "umad" "nou mad" which gets extremely annoying. But this is the reason I separate my chats, ooc, guild, tells are all in separate windows. I have never really had an issue since then. You can turn ooc off all together if you really want, The only issue is when your trying to have a meaningful conversation or talk about something serious and the umad crap is going on in the background.

I don't think red server pop is at a range where ooc should not be game wide. Maybe if it had 350-400 average+ then yes I would say go for it. But at most nights the servers dips down to 30-50 and sometimes all there is to do is talk in ooc to people while farming items/solo exping. Even then its hard to start a convo up or see anything other then auction messages. The way I see it, at peak times P99 Red server is just about at the limit for global ooc. One message from the right key person can spark a full out spam fest and flame war.


You do realize with more population, we would be able to stop recruiting heavily. The reason we recruit so much is because of the turn over rate of new apps. Every month we get 5+ new apps. Next month, we might have 1 of them still playing. The last few raids we have rangers or monks tanking and 4-5 dps classes lol. We have not even finished VP so why would we quit recruiting. If we had say 20-30 people switch over from blue, sure we would get a few apps out of it. We would be able to pick and choose a few key classes that we need though. We wouldn't just take anyone because we wouldn't need them. Increase in pop is increase in pop, however you look at it. What kills pop is the exp loss on pvp. I could careless if I died because I'm max exp on Twainz. My biggest problem is the opposition running and plugging every chance they get. PvP is so boring on this server that I created alts just to PvP. The only time I can get PvP on my main is if I attack a group of players or if I can find someone in the middle of a zone. If we removed the exp loss, I'm sure people would stay in fight. No one wants to PvP for hours just to have to exp for days or weeks to get back.

You are right, Most people would stick and fight it out. Some people who are 55+ and still grinding don't want to lose that exp % especially if they do not have the time to spends hours exping getting it back. Myself I personally don't mind it(but I have yet to hit a point where I get a few % in hours of exping). I rarely run from a fight right now, The only times is really when I am out numbered and know its going to be nothing but a rapefest. Or when im trying to get somewhere and cant be bothered to stop and pvp someone and risk possible death then CR and costing more time for whatever I was doing. This will obviously never change, But if a group of people run up on me 5v1 99% of the time everyone is going to jump in and attack. It would be too much to ask, and most would not even halting a killsquad for a 1v2 or 1v1 instead of 1v5.

[Sirken]

This is one for me. I keep wanting to try red, and as an enchanter I can solo for XP without problems, but then I log in and get immediately spammed in ooc with RNF bullshit. I don't mind a good flamewar but its always the neanderthal 'u mad bro' 'no i killed u' type stuff. Then I log back on to blue and flame Sirken on the forums for not removing variance! Conclusion: happiness comes from within?

dont forget u can /ignore annoying players, or just turn off /ooc

[Faerie Blossom]

I wish ooc was a little more moderated than it is now. It seems to be one of the big things preventing blues from making the switch. No one wants to put themselves at a disadvantage by turning ooc off just so they don't have to listen to the stupid things said there.

[ukaking]

As a new player to RED99, a few things I have noticed...
EXP death on PvP is the biggest detractor for me right now.
OOC can be mildly annoying but sometimes entertaining.
I was playing on blue, my reasons for not coming to Red before was because of the presence they have on the boards. I expected more immature, e-peen egos, and griefing than I have encountered thus far. Honestly I have ran into many friendly players who roleplayed with my Iksar!

[Biaxil]

Yea, get rid of pvp exp loss, but I say no to transfers.

[Sear]

1. Take away xp death
2. Grouping xp bonus thats better than soloing. (atleast to 50)

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text


1.) If you want to moderate OOC more, then do it, but an easier fix = set /auction to global. Right now everyone uses /ooc for auction. It overcrowds the channel with auctions that are not "out of character" but go there anyway because only one social channel is usable currently. Separate it out into two different channels like it was on live, and you do not have to worry about the trashy-ooc side overwhelming the game related side.


2.) I don't like the concept of increasing group exp. Not everyone can (or wants to) group here, and there is no reason to unfairly punish soloists.

Made this suggestion a year ago and will make it again: hotzones. It is common design with any MMORPGs that have too much real estate to occupy too few players - which is exactly the case of this server. They did this on live EQ after the expansion zones started outnumbering the players.

Increasing the zone experience modifier (ZEM) for a few zones would result in more pvp and more grouping, while not devaluing non-accelerated zones because those remain lower risk. A zone like Unrest is as close as it gets currently to this - we need more of that. Lake of Ill Omen doesn't feel classic at all. There's 6 other players in the zone yesterday, we spend half an hour looking for someone to kill just because we're sick of grinding. Can't find anyone. The zone is massive - all of the kunark ones are. Where's the 30-50 pvp/group spot? Dunno. There really isn't one.

A global increased exp rate is a lazy way of fixing it. You allow players to more quickly run through the 1-50 treadmill, so then at least the ~150 players on the server are all generally in the same range and zones (51-60 kunark zones).


3.) A blue-to-red transfer option wouldn't be fair to red players who started here from level 1. Leveling here isn't the same as it is on blue - it isn't even close. Samwise posted about this in another thread and I agree with him completely. Blue is MUCH EASIER (PVE) even at a slower rate. There are multiple reasons for that: you can group easily, there's no pvp, there's 90+ people at the EC tunnel instead of 0 who will buff/help you, there are players in every city zone that will bind you if you're a melee.

This is something I feel like gets overlooked on the staff side, although it's not your fault since you are running both of these servers and thus can't compare actually playing on them (to eachother or to live).

Just to give an example: I started a pally here with a rogue friend. We spent something like six hours one night corpse running from antonica to kunark. Why? Because there was no one to bind us. Getting a bind here as a melee can be really really difficult. This is generally a much harder server PvE-wise than any of the red ones I played on live, and it is definitely tougher than blue99.



All this groupthink shit aside, I've been enjoying this server a lot + it's doing really well population-wise.

[Tippett]

sear is absolutely right, no fucking groups/binds/ports makes red way harder to level on regardless of 25% exp boost for most classes

shit is not tite

[porigromus]

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text

I tried to give the PvP server a chance but was verbally and physically harassed the very first second I logged in so then I didn't go back. Playing with douches isn't fun.

[Galacticus]

sear is absolutely right, no fucking groups/binds/ports makes red way harder to level on regardless of 25% exp boost for most classes

shit is not tite

if only we had higher population....

incase you missed it:


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103256

[Tradesonred]

A global increased exp rate is a lazy way of fixing it. You allow players to more quickly run through the 1-50 treadmill, so then at least the ~150 players on the server are all generally in the same range and zones (51-60 kunark zones).


I dont see anything wrong with the faster xp. Hardcore grind was good back in 1999, but i dont see myself doing the 50-60 grind again at this rate.

It would be fun to get to experience many other classes i wont if xp is slower.

At the same time, i wouldnt mind if it stayed the same, as long as they fix the xp loss in pvp it seems is a given now, so i can enjoy the journey up without it being a ridiculously boring PVE grind where nobody pvps because they dont wanna add more grind.

After reading your post, i do agree that adding hotzones would be better than group xp, maybe boost group xp just a tad to get a little more motivation to group. So then we can bottleneck the pvp/pve and make the zones more fun to play in, which in turn will help attract new players because these zones will be alot of fun (snowball effect bringing population up, instead of downward spiral xp grief/no pvp bore down the toilet).

I dont think its fair to lay all the blame on the players for griefing new blood. Devs have been told a year ago that xp loss in pvp was a weapon given to griefers to grief with. Been told a year ago top guild would farm anything it wants without anyone seriously contesting because of xp loss in pvp. Now it seems server is coming around, but a year ago response was "Lol, this isnt CoD" and even recently. It should be expected that players on a pvp server want to pvp, and enjoy the edge they have worked for (the gear) for lulz. For the new guys, they should learn soon that there is safety in numbers, and trying to reach out to other noobs to stick for each other against better geared griefers. Like i said in another post, as soon as fix goes in ill join or start an alt guild so fresh players can defend themselves against griefers and motivate them to stick it out by making fighting back fun. OOC is useful to let them get in touch with each other.

The sooner the devs ditch the xp loss in pvp, the sooner griefers will have less of an impact on people starting on the server. Instead of telling players not to pvp on a pvp server, you guys should implement the xp fix asap. By taking less of a demotivating hit, new guys can get back on their feet quicker and actually get the motivation to get some payback (and access to the fun, the adrenaline of being able to try and sometimes actual payback) because the penalty for failing disadvantaging odds is not super harsh. The exact same thing is valid for end game, top guild can still hold down zones/camps, but theyll have to work for it instead of winning by default because of their numbers or their gear.

That being said, yeah being overly assholistic will not serve yourself in the long run if you want more prey to play around with in the future.

[Jerin]

What is keeping people from playing here?

Well you must admit that the majority of red players are raging douche bags.

How many "Come at me bros" "You mad?" does it take before a reasonably normal person says this server and the people who play here are fucking stupid.

in short...the player base is terrible.

i don't know..maybe at 33 im just an angry old man compared to the lot of you

[Faerie Blossom]

We could try a bake sale, or like an "adopt a bluebie" promotion.

[Tradesonred]

Well you must admit that the majority of red players are raging douche bags.

How many "Come at me bros" "You mad?" does it take before a reasonably normal person says this server and the people who play here are fucking stupid.

in short...the player base is terrible.

i don't know..maybe at 33 im just an angry old man compared to the lot of you

No, theyre stupid. They act stupid, anyway.

But you will find some good folks playing, just have to dig a little.

You would have ran away from here on day one a year ago, it was ten times worse.

[tehruoh]

limit global ooc to 1 every 2-3 minutes. this will cut down on spam and if people are interested in what you have to say they will /tell you. IE: people lfg, lfm, etc.

It was initially supposed to be a tool to find a group but all it has turned in to is a cesspool for the degenerates of the server.

[Tippett]

people not in the largest guild on the server like to use it to socialize

so yeh keep it the same

[tehruoh]

people not in the largest guild on the server like to use it to socialize

so yeh keep it the same

socializing is what /tell was designed for. There are plenty of out of game programs that allow you to stay in touch with everyone.

the retardedness in ooc has gone on long enough, to the point where it drives away new folk, and it is time to put a stop to it.

also, see "Guild" if you would like to talk with a bunch of friends at once.

Edt: Global OOC wasnt added for a social experience, im sure rogean will back me up on that one.

[Smedy]

Removing global ooc would pretty much kill the server.

Global ooc is honest, if you're a douchebag you'll get called out about it, much like your GF pal, shes a complete douche.

Fix yourself b4 you talk shit about ooc, shits just saying what everyone thinks about you anyway

[Smedy]

Remove pvp exp death
Remove hybrid shared penalty
Add yellow text

+++pop

[Jenni D]

Remove pvp exp death
Remove hybrid shared penalty
Add yellow text

+++pop

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

socializing is what /tell was designed for. There are plenty of out of game programs that allow you to stay in touch with everyone.

the retardedness in ooc has gone on long enough, to the point where it drives away new folk, and it is time to put a stop to it.

also, see "Guild" if you would like to talk with a bunch of friends at once.

Edt: Global OOC wasnt added for a social experience, im sure rogean will back me up on that one.

lul

implying rogaine gives any sort of fucks

[Tippett]

when there wasnt /ooc pop was 6 people, 15 people during peak raid time

and tehruoh wasn't playing either btw

there is so much fucking soloing on this server without /ooc to entertain people or give them an avenue to interact shit would be dead in like 2 months

[tehruoh]

i didnt say take it away entirely, i said it needs rate limits to cut down on all the bullshit.

[Tippett]

server pop already fragile after enormous exp nerf

stop asking them to remove/limit shit and go back to asking them to add shit

while I'm here I'll go ahead and ask nicely again, please return the exp to it's former insane glory

yesterday evening there was 25+ nihilum members and only a single azrael (2nd biggest guild on server) we need more population to have a competitive server

also all 18 of the level 60s were in nihilum.... need more "high level" (i.e. make exp faster so people can catch up) population badly

[Twain]

server pop already fragile after enormous exp nerf

stop asking them to remove/limit shit and go back to asking them to add shit

while I'm here I'll go ahead and ask nicely again, please return the exp to it's former insane glory

yesterday evening there was 25+ nihilum members and only a single azrael (2nd biggest guild on server) we need more population to have a competitive server

also all 18 of the level 60s were in nihilum.... need more "high level" (i.e. make exp faster so people can catch up) population badly

Azrael was decimated yesterday in PvP, this is why you did not see them online. If you did see them, they were /anon as they were ashamed of their guild tag.

[Tippett]

still was only 1 online not sure on point

need faster exp so the only 60s arent in one guild

[Kraftwerk]

Azrael was decimated yesterday in PvP, this is why you did not see them online. If you did see them, they were /anon as they were ashamed of their guild tag.

Is that why you guys spent an hour bat phoning and coordinating in OT to retrieve your corpses in DL?

[Tradesonred]

sear is absolutely right, no fucking groups/binds/ports makes red way harder to level on regardless of 25% exp boost for most classes

shit is not tite

Another example of no playtesting, which is allrite if you pay attention to the feedback the players provide. Then again, some players provide false feedback because it advantages them "Xp loss in pvp is irrelevant, a non-issue, insignificant" etc etc

[porigromus]

Devs:

Dramatically increase group xp
Remove xp loss from pvp
Create random hotzones each week for great xp
Limit global ooc to certain number per time limit

Players;

Stop being douche bags to new players (corpse camping, verbally insulting etc)

[Vile]

Devs:

Dramatically increase group xp
Remove xp loss from pvp
Create random hotzones each week for great xp
Limit global ooc to certain number per time limit

Players;

Stop being douche bags to new players (corpse camping, verbally insulting etc)

it's so simple...

[Nirgon]

Make pvp fixes to retarded shit like mage pets / high sun.

IMPROVE resists, doesn't have to be perfect.

Make some bans that matter (I think a few have been made, but none of this 6 months for finally getting caught for MQ etc)

[Shrubwise]

Go away.

[Tradesonred]

same old posts , same old silence

time to move on

Go away.

LOL

I think shrub has a point, we might be on the threshold of something here.

Or not, but if someone is singing the same old song today, Mr. Tomato, it is you.

[Tradesonred]

it's so simple...

Everything is there, they just need to read this thread and the thread "server not thriving anymore" and they got the rebirth of the server on a silver platter.

[tehruoh]

Devs:

Dramatically increase group xp
Remove xp loss from pvp
Limit global ooc to certain number per time limit

Players;

Stop being douche bags to new players (corpse camping, verbally insulting etc)

[SamwiseRed]

ive never seen a community so ignored , keep trying over and over for the same things


and still being ignored.

gotta agree to a degree. same shit has been said since beta hopefully there really is changes coming like sirkdawg said a week or so ago because this is absolutely redic :)

[Tradesonred]

ive never seen a community so ignored , keep trying over and over for the same things


and still being ignored.

I also agree to a certain degree.

Sirken did say they were implementing some undisclosed change to xp loss in pvp, so thats something.

If no news for the next month or 2 like what happened to that yellow text poll though, im never bothering to type another post to try to improve the server again.

[Tippett]

best way to improve server is to participate and facilitate interactions between people

[Barladore]

Devs:

Dramatically increase group xp
Remove xp loss from pvp
Create random hotzones each week for great xp
Limit global ooc to certain number per time limit

Players;

Stop being douche bags to new players (corpse camping, verbally insulting etc)

[Tradesonred]

^^^^

What barladore quoted

Simply implementing these easy tweaks would make the server tons more fun for both the vets and the new guys.

Then if devs feel like it, they can mess around with the cherry on top stuff thats been suggested and make us even more happy.

But please implement these easy tweaks

[Tippett]

yeah group exp would be good my enc is averaging like 5-6 levels a day soloc shits classic

im p cool tho and invite random people to kinda sit and leech off me tho becuz the lack of groups hurts my soul

[Macarena]

i dont know if it was addressed, but sirkens suggestion to let blues transfer over would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who legitly leveled a character to 60 on the server, totally a bad idea and punishes everyone who has been playing on the server before this

[Tippett]

i agre macarena

[Tradesonred]

i dont know if it was addressed, but sirkens suggestion to let blues transfer over would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who legitly leveled a character to 60 on the server, totally a bad idea and punishes everyone who has been playing on the server before this

It would be a much, much better idea to implement the ideas that have been suggested and make it actually fun to level up a character again.

Lots of fun pvp with no xp loss, guild rivalries, hot zones, good group xp, etc, etc "Enjoy the journey" and all that.

They could cut down the xp in half and i think id still play if they just turned off xp loss in pvp, thats how much of a difference i think itll make.

[Swyft]

good start

3. stop griefing new players u see running around in cloth
4. stop using ooc for real life attacks and dumb spam
5. the PLAYERS need to create an environment that is actually friendly (appealing) to new players
6. let blues COPY over (without coin or droppables so they cant have a negative impact on the economy.
7. PvP text

Sorry but the biggest deterrent to new player's here is Nihilium.

They Rez timer rush every raid group doing content, blowing trak's teeth, golem wands, and conflag wands. I guess that's Sirkin's idea of solid pvping at high end.

They make regular rounds looking for blue player's farming anything they would need to sustain themselves. They'll even hit Seafury island and keep knocking down tainted's so there's nothing but corrupted up to stop newbie's from farming cash to gear there guys up.

Then you want to turn off ooc so that newbs can't even pickup gear or groups, check my logs if you think OOC is worthless because almost every piece of gear I own was bought from ooc trades, and I'm new here.

Then you reward them with even more loot for blowing duel soulfires and trak's teeth in TNF's.

And let more people transfer from blue to join Nihilium and replenish their ranks, because what blue player isn't gonna want to join the bluest farming guild on the server.

Why don't you just hand every Nihi your GM power's while your at it.

[Supreme]

http://play.esea.net/global/media_preview.php?url=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.c om%2F-xt_Pbt_ysUU%2FT6_fQoKxneI%2FAAAAAAAACkE%2F6VWjKPwJ 5pA%2Fs1600%2FRustled%2BJimmies.jpg

[Cars]

Sorry but the biggest deterrent to new player's here is Nihilium.

They Rez timer rush every raid group doing content, blowing trak's teeth, golem wands, and conflag wands. I guess that's Sirkin's idea of solid pvping at high end.

They make regular rounds looking for blue player's farming anything they would need to sustain themselves. They'll even hit Seafury island and keep knocking down tainted's so there's nothing but corrupted up to stop newbie's from farming cash to gear there guys up.

Then you want to turn off ooc so that newbs can't even pickup gear or groups, check my logs if you think OOC is worthless because almost every piece of gear I own was bought from ooc trades, and I'm new here.

Then you reward them with even more loot for blowing duel soulfires and trak's teeth in TNF's.

And let more people transfer from blue to join Nihilium and replenish their ranks, because what blue player isn't gonna want to join the bluest farming guild on the server.

Why don't you just hand every Nihi your GM power's while your at it.

Listen man, your wrong. Nihilum is not the problem for NEW players, they are a problem for level 50+ chars that want to loot high-end gear or enter the raid scene.

Anyone joining this server knows that you have 3 choices that should determine your end-game expectations. You can join Nihilum and farm pixels hard on sundays with little competition, then PvP with huge advantages. You can Join Nihilum's competition which are outnumbered and outgeared knowing the only way to beat them will be to out-number them eventually well picking up a few boss kills here and there. Or you can gather the best gear you can find outside of Boss mobs and run around the world PvPing exclusively. But all of that is END game and has no place in a thread about getting more NEW people to the server.

New player's need incentives that are provided in lieu of a greater population. Where on blue you can get xp groups easy, ports easy, binds in cities the moment you get there for melee's, etc, etc. Red doesn't have these things because of the population and that is a huge detterent to new players as this is where I imagine most of the grief happens, atleast the grief that gets people off the server. Assholes know that player's can't easily speak to the community at large until lvl 10 (Global OOC activates) and you see twink PK's crushing kids that just took a 45 minute boat ride to a city, just to be merc'd before they could get a bind. High level Bards cock-blocking mobs in newbie zones or higher level monks, Sk's and Necros FD training etc etc. THAT is the shit that gets people off the server and I guarantee you that nihilum is doing very little of it.

I say all this as a Blue convert, that came to the server without any inherited currency from blue, I have levelled my own char from scratch and I have no intention of joining nihilum. I am practically your target market.

I would limit global OOC and make it activate at lvl 5.
I would add yellow text.
I would add a group experience bonus (1-2 players get the server 25%, 3 players 35%, 4 players 45%, 5 players 55%, 6 players 75%)

Then I would wait and see what happens.

[JurisDictum]

I'm new to the server by less than a week. I have brought along my cousin and (if they ever respond to my IP petition) my brother. I played Sullon Zek pre-WoW, and also had several level 60s on TZ/VZ emu server.
A prime example of what kills a growing server happened last night. My brother just got level 6 on his naked ass character and two level 8 twinks gank him in town (right outside the bank) take his complete savings of 12 platinum. My cousin inquired about it to them and got some BS troll response like it was RZ live in 2001 or something.
I understand this is red, but its the kind of thing that makes you rethink if you actually want to play the server. If you are level 20ish and lose a bit of platinum, its not going to make anyone quit a server they already invested that much time in. But if you are the kind of douche that bank ganks scratch level 5s 2v1, don't be surprised when you flow of new players is a bit stemmed.
Another thing that kills server population is one guild servers. SZ died eventually (along with RZ) because one guild controlled all raid content and people got sick of having nothing effective to do against people with 250% of their stats. Unfortunately there its not easy to solve this. As bluebie as it sounds, top guilds might want to let opposing guilds do some content until they can actually challenge them.
Also this exp on death thing is an easy fix. Just lower the amount of exp you lose. Losing some is good an all, but not the same as a PvE death.

[Vile]

+1 player here bro.. just need your old SK hand me downs.

troll sk, solo grind, hard life ahead of me bros.

[Cars]

Right, I forgot to add that in my last post.

I would absolutely remove exp entirely from PvP death. You already come back with no mana after a PvP death. It's like a double punishment to try and prevent bind rushing and it's not necessary. Remove exp from death, keep it so you have no mana after a PvP death.

[Splorf22]

Why not just disable PVP in cities? There is no reason to PK someone in a city other than griefing. And the fact that you can attack people at the bank is just fucking retarded.

[JurisDictum]

Why not just disable PVP in cities? There is no reason to PK someone in a city other than griefing. And the fact that you can attack people at the bank is just fucking retarded.

Or you could disable coin looting in cities. Otherwise there might be too many safe zones.

[Tradesonred]

I'm new to the server by less than a week. I have brought along my cousin and (if they ever respond to my IP petition) my brother. I played Sullon Zek pre-WoW, and also had several level 60s on TZ/VZ emu server.
A prime example of what kills a growing server happened last night. My brother just got level 6 on his naked ass character and two level 8 twinks gank him in town (right outside the bank) take his complete savings of 12 platinum. My cousin inquired about it to them and got some BS troll response like it was RZ live in 2001 or something.
I understand this is red, but its the kind of thing that makes you rethink if you actually want to play the server. If you are level 20ish and lose a bit of platinum, its not going to make anyone quit a server they already invested that much time in. But if you are the kind of douche that bank ganks scratch level 5s 2v1, don't be surprised when you flow of new players is a bit stemmed.
Another thing that kills server population is one guild servers. SZ died eventually (along with RZ) because one guild controlled all raid content and people got sick of having nothing effective to do against people with 250% of their stats. Unfortunately there its not easy to solve this. As bluebie as it sounds, top guilds might want to let opposing guilds do some content until they can actually challenge them.
Also this exp on death thing is an easy fix. Just lower the amount of exp you lose. Losing some is good an all, but not the same as a PvE death.

The same things are getting repeated over and over because its common sense. If the devs drop the ball this time, i will be done and done with everquest 1, because i dont see myself playing on any other server than P99 red. Everything they need to make the server grow and fun again is in this thread and "Server not thriving" thread

I dont agree with the coin steal though, thats part of the learning experience. Next time, you send somebody with no coins to make sure nobodys at the bank zone and then you run in. Its what made Rallos Zek great, having to be on your toes like that. The adrenaline.

What does suck, is naked noobs getting xp griefed by twinks, thats gotta go, for the millionth time. Removing xp loss in pvp will also solve the major bore fest that is end game here. Will foster guerilla pvp and dominant clan(s) can finally get contested, etc etc etc etc etc

The server would have done alot better going with no xp loss and item loot straight off the bat. Now the dillema is that xp loss in pvp sucks bad and is creating all sorts of problems, but you need some kind of penalty for dying. Personally i think the loss of your mana/health bars and running back to your corpse is enough, but it would have been nice to see noobs bumrush twinks and loot their shit. As it is now, twink griefers will never, ever lose their gear making them alot more cocky and griefy than if they had the chance to lose their loot vs noobs who have nothing themselves to lose, gear-wise. Ditching xp loss in pvp is the best we could do with what we got i guess, and its needed.

[Philipangoo]

Cars I completely agree with you.. in fact in the past month or so since I leveled a melee to lvl 30 I have experienced first hand all those things that you wrote about.

At lvl 3 a twinked bard that conned red to me attempted to gank a naked cracked staff wielding melee.

At lvl 16 I zone crashed on the boat trying to go from FP to BBM and I was stranded in OOT It sucked even more because I had a swimming skill of 1. When I was shouting asking for a port the only response I got was from a FoH player that asked me "what level are you".

At lvl 22 I was in Unrest, and I had my first real PVP experience against a Ogre Shaman I think his name is Powered. Apparently he is in Azrael now but at the time he jumped my group of 4 while we had a pull. We rooted him and blinded him but before he died his body poofed like one moment he was here the next he was gone. There was no gate potion message, no OOR porter message, no message at all. He just warped out of the zone. Upon sending him a tell he was zoning, and disconnected.

At lvl 25 again in unrest, I had a basement group which was purposely trained by a higher lvl Titanuk. I guess he was upset about us killing his twink earlier ? I have no idea why he would have trained us for no reason.

At lvl 29 in Unrest I was attacked by a epic wielding rogue, and a Woodsman staff Ranger. Given that half my armor is cloth, it was a pretty one sided fight. Although I did almost kill Mrbig. When I was running back on my CR, the ranger came out and attempted to snare me. As I zoned in to get my body both of them proceeded to attack me before I even got the chance to loot.

I decided to just log for a bit and when I returned 30 min later, /who yielded 0 people in unrest... gee I wonder why.

Despite all this I have to say my experience here has still been positive, given some of the friends I made and groups I have been a part of although they were few and far in between. My point is alot of people think that the population destroying is caused by Nihilum or end game gear farming denial. In all honestly I don't think 80% of the people that had the experience I had on this server would have stayed as long as I did. People grief rampantly on this server. All those experiences above except for being attacked by twinks normally I /reported and /petitioned, but it really didn't change anything... I have just come to accept that it's the nature of the server.

[Tippett]

Philip dude sounds like you are spending 90% of your time in the one zone on the entire server that has all the griefer twinks and trainers planted in it.

Might wanna check some other zones out imo, Unrest will give you an extremely skewed view of the server all. (Like to going a poor country in Africa and saying the whole Earth blows)

[Elderan]

At lvl 22 I was in Unrest, and I had my first real PVP experience against a Ogre Shaman I think his name is Powered. Apparently he is in Azrael now but at the time he jumped my group of 4 while we had a pull. We rooted him and blinded him but before he died his body poofed like one moment he was here the next he was gone. There was no gate potion message, no OOR porter message, no message at all. He just warped out of the zone. Upon sending him a tell he was zoning, and disconnected.

This is called insta poofing. This happens when people exploit ip exemptions (there are other ways I wont go into here). Basically they can make their toon poof instantly avoiding death in pvp or even in pve some people use it to pull. This tactic is ILLEGAL and a bannable offense if caught.

There are far too many known poofers on the server who have been reported over and over and never get banned.

I want to make it clear. Someone can /q out and poof as well without an ip exemption. But when this happens you will see LD above their name and it normally takes 20 seconds or so for them to poof. This isn't illegal.

[Cars]

Despite all this I have to say my experience here has still been positive, given some of the friends I made and groups I have been a part of although they were few and far in between. My point is alot of people think that the population destroying is caused by Nihilum or end game gear farming denial. In all honestly I don't think 80% of the people that had the experience I had on this server would have stayed as long as I did. People grief rampantly on this server. All those experiences above except for being attacked by twinks normally I /reported and /petitioned, but it really didn't change anything... I have just come to accept that it's the nature of the server.

Yeah I don't consider being PK'd being griefed, that's what happens in PvP environments and the server is exactly as I imagined it. Most PK's are not looking for a fair fight, so you have to always be on your toes which I find exciting. I actually appreciate when someone sneaks up on me and starts a vicious brawl cause it's exciting, even when I am the underdog I find the PvP fun. Corpse camping and all the high level people griefing newbies is just dumb, because those same dudes come in here and cry about low pop. My experience in general has been awesome, and I actually find EQ fun again. I have made some pals that I don't mess with, and I have made some rivalries that I just take in as good fun. If you can't eat a no honor death or two, then you shouldn't be playing on red imo.

That said, there are still some things that could be changed to make starting here easier for newbies, really all changes should be made in the name of server growth as the higher the pop, the more fun the server will be.

[Philipangoo]

I knew Unrest was a hot zone, prior to that I had spent 7-8 levels in Kunark at Lake of Ill Omen. But something about being the only person in a huge zone like LoiL in a MMO just isn't appealing.

I didn't spend all my levels at unrest, only when I found a group there via OOC global or in Guild Chat. In fact I only spent like 2-3 full levels there and I had all those experiences lol.

[JurisDictum]

I dont agree with the coin steal though, thats part of the learning experience. Next time, you send somebody with no coins to make sure nobodys at the bank zone and then you run in. Its what made Rallos Zek great, having to be on your toes like that. The adrenaline.

That's a pretty bizarre stance to take. On one hand, its just lame for someone to lose exp for PvP. But their entire bank getting lost is just fine.
Pretty much outlines why RZ was always a garbage server of blue guilds, half naked casters and griefers. Lol..RZ...where the highth of pvp was deleveled twinks. Bar non the worst end game PvPers BTW, once Zek combined all player bases. But I'm sure they were very good at ganking the newbie zones.
You might disagree with my tastes in all. But it does discourage the bran new players...fact.

[Faerie Blossom]

Listen man, your wrong. Nihilum is not the problem for NEW players, they are a problem for level 50+ chars that want to loot high-end gear or enter the raid scene.

Anyone joining this server knows that you have 3 choices that should determine your end-game expectations. You can join Nihilum and farm pixels hard on sundays with little competition, then PvP with huge advantages. You can Join Nihilum's competition which are outnumbered and outgeared knowing the only way to beat them will be to out-number them eventually well picking up a few boss kills here and there. Or you can gather the best gear you can find outside of Boss mobs and run around the world PvPing exclusively. But all of that is END game and has no place in a thread about getting more NEW people to the server.

New player's need incentives that are provided in lieu of a greater population. Where on blue you can get xp groups easy, ports easy, binds in cities the moment you get there for melee's, etc, etc. Red doesn't have these things because of the population and that is a huge detterent to new players as this is where I imagine most of the grief happens, atleast the grief that gets people off the server. Assholes know that player's can't easily speak to the community at large until lvl 10 (Global OOC activates) and you see twink PK's crushing kids that just took a 45 minute boat ride to a city, just to be merc'd before they could get a bind. High level Bards cock-blocking mobs in newbie zones or higher level monks, Sk's and Necros FD training etc etc. THAT is the shit that gets people off the server and I guarantee you that nihilum is doing very little of it.

I say all this as a Blue convert, that came to the server without any inherited currency from blue, I have levelled my own char from scratch and I have no intention of joining nihilum. I am practically your target market.

I would limit global OOC and make it activate at lvl 5.
I would add yellow text.
I would add a group experience bonus (1-2 players get the server 25%, 3 players 35%, 4 players 45%, 5 players 55%, 6 players 75%)

Then I would wait and see what happens.

100% this. The majority of my gear has come from kind Nihilum players, and their presence has done nothing but encourage me to play. What has bothered me (beyond the low population) has been low level fungi twinks like Dareal (who never managed to PK me but was a nuisance) and being FD trained by Azrael while I was trying to exp. I guess they thought I was a spy watching them buff before going after Vox, but does that give them the right to train? Why are the needs of the high levels more important than some random 20-something that might be a Nihilum spy? It doesn't bother me when people attack or kill me via PvP, but I was under the impression that training was not allowed here. There are already FFA zones that basically make good pre-50 exp zones like perma off-limits; why train the newbies medding to kill more mammoths in EF?

Anyway, I've met very kind and helpful people in both Azrael and Nihilum, and I'm sure it was an isolated incident. There's just an air of paranoia surrounding everything that happens here, and if training is considered a viable tactic at the high-end (outside of VP) then I don't think I belong here.

[Tradesonred]

That's a pretty bizarre stance to take. On one hand, its just lame for someone to lose exp for PvP. But their entire bank getting lost is just fine.
Pretty much outlines why RZ was always a garbage server of blue guilds, half naked casters and griefers. Lol..RZ...where the highth of pvp was deleveled twinks. Bar non the worst end game PvPers BTW, once Zek combined all player bases. But I'm sure they were very good at ganking the newbie zones.
You might disagree with my tastes in all. But it does discourage the bran new players...fact.

If youre gonna quit because you got coined, and cant learn to do a /who while you got plat on you, complain instead of thinking that next time youll be more careful, chances are youre not cut out for EQ pvp anyway. (im talking in general, not to you personally)

On the other hand, xp loss in pvp is so bad its gonna turn everyone away.

[Cars]

If youre gonna quit because you got coined, and cant learn to do a /who while you got plat on you, complain instead of thinking that next time youll be more careful, chances are youre not cut out for EQ pvp anyway. (im talking in general, not to you personally)

On the other hand, xp loss in pvp is so bad its gonna turn everyone away.

Yeah to an extent I agree, I mean someone getting coined at the bank isn't terrible when it's two 30+ players cause even a twink isn't going to one shot someone and that just comes with the territory, but at least escape or a quick banking is still possible. A level 12 wearing 20k+ worth of gear dropping a new lvl 8 player for his 12 plat life savings is pretty retarded.

[Cars]

But that's a player base issue, not a server issue.

[Tradesonred]

Yeah to an extent I agree, I mean someone getting coined at the bank isn't terrible when it's two 30+ players cause even a twink isn't going to one shot someone and that just comes with the territory, but at least escape or a quick banking is still possible. A level 12 wearing 20k+ worth of gear dropping a new lvl 8 player for his 12 plat life savings is pretty retarded.

My mama always said "Ganking a naked noob near a bank was like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_atW2inZj-G4/TAVV3q62tnI/AAAAAAAABPE/blwrnn_LF8g/s1600/Forrest_Gump_running_alabama_jenny.jpg

Half kidding, its a bit retarded if you got 200k in the bank and ganking naked noobs, but you really dont know how many coins someone is holding until hes dead and you loot him.

[Knuckle]

let a *low income individual* 2 box and shit will grow like sunflowers

[Faerie Blossom]

let a *low income individual* 2 box and shit will grow like sunflowers

Wouldn't that be artificial growth?

[fiegi 6.0]

from 200 to 125 in a month since the xp nerf

brilliant move i must admit.

[Tippett]

152 on a thursday aint bad

[fiegi 6.0]

152 on a thursday aint bad

cwall said server was reset and every raid mob spawned so there are prolly 45 nilly on, unreliable timing.

[mostbitter]

http://i49.tinypic.com/oi966h.jpg

[Tippett]

oh thats why vampiro quit azrael

[mostbitter]

Doubt it, happened yesterday. Kind of funny to cry, "hey I'm in your guild" when you haven't showed up for anything in months.

[Heavydrop]

Something else Rallos Zek eventually did was if you got PK'd you lost all your mana. Hard to come back and wreck havoc if you're a caster and oom on respawn. Yeah it sucked for CR but it made you more careful about things.
Just food for thought

[Tippett]

valid point

[SamwiseRed]

Something else Rallos Zek eventually did was if you got PK'd you lost all your mana. Hard to come back and wreck havoc if you're a caster and oom on respawn. Yeah it sucked for CR but it made you more careful about things.
Just food for thought

thats how it works here

[Anesthia]

No blue copies, no xp loss.
(x%) coin + (x) item loot. -- () indicates variable/optional/random
Permaban psychopaths.
I would play.

[Faerie Blossom]

There is absolutely no reason for solo exp to be faster here than on blue. I actually feel kind of bad, because I've turned down a few duo/group requests in favor of the easier/faster solo grind. I started my druid on march 22, and I'm already level 34. For some reason that seems crazy to me.

But having experienced both, I really must say that soloing as a capable caster is much, much faster than when in a group. This is of course discouraging meaningful social interaction and it contributes to the difficulty of raising a melee/hybrid. I feel that solo exp should be nerfed, and group exp should receive a large bonus.

[Tippett]

its even faster for melees to solo sadly so group exp bonus might help

but i can understand they are trying to balance deviating from whats classic while also helping the server because as nilbog has stated the goal is for it to be as classic as possible,

he has just taken some liberties in order to make this server have a playable population since the population was non existent when it was closer to actual classic =/

[Tradesonred]

Anyone keeping track of whens the first time Sirken mentioned a fix to the baddy bad xp loss in pvp?

They just gonna let that statement loose like that, with no timeframe and no updates?

Thats a good way to get your playerbase cynical, or in devspeak "feeling entitled to stuff"

Im not at that point yet, its fine to not give specifics for a little while, but if we dont get something in the next few weeks, were heading into "Youre a fucking idiot if you take anything they say seriously" territory.
Youre better off saying something like "Devs are taking a look at it, dont know when theyll get around to it, busy with RL" than dangling something in front of the players that is not coming any time soon.
You can add that to the list of things to do to improve the server (remember that yellow text poll where 80% or so voted yes on it, including Nilbog and then it was never mentioned again? yeah)

[Faerie Blossom]

Anyone keeping track of whens the first time Sirken mentioned a fix to the baddy bad xp loss in pvp?

They just gonna let that statement loose like that, with no timeframe and no updates?

Thats a good way to get your playerbase cynical, or in devspeak "feeling entitled to stuff"

Im not at that point yet, its fine to not give specifics for a little while, but if we dont get something in the next few weeks, were heading into "Youre a fucking idiot if you take anything they say seriously" territory.
Youre better off saying something like "Devs are taking a look at it, dont know when theyll get around to it, busy with RL" than dangling something in front of the players that is not coming any time soon.
You can add that to the list of things to do to improve the server (remember that yellow text poll where 80% or so voted yes on it, including Nilbog and then it was never mentioned again? yeah)

You're like a broken record; everything you have to say is about xp loss in pvp. I'm pretty sure the only thing Sirken has said on the matter is that he agrees with most of us and doesn't like it. If he came out and said that it was 100% for sure going to be removed, I missed that post.

[Tippett]

yeah im not sure what ecoli and other peoples problems are

if you dont like the way the server is now then dont play it, i highly doubt a little change like no exp loss would make such an enormous change in server dynamics that you would find it tolerable if you did not already

and tbh no exp loss isnt the reason people dont "PVP endless all day every day" its because people get fucking embarressed when they die because no one likes it and it makes you an easy troll target.

its the community that kills the pvp more then anything, that exp loss is not the reason im irritated when i die from pvp

[Tradesonred]

You're like a broken record; everything you have to say is about xp loss in pvp. I'm pretty sure the only thing Sirken has said on the matter is that he agrees with most of us and doesn't like it. If he came out and said that it was 100% for sure going to be removed, I missed that post.

You missed it.

countless things have changed and will continue to change (ie: added global ooc, lowered xp bonus, guard assist, xp loss on pvp, pvp text, having casters not repop with mana) and whatever else we have in the works.

Thats the first instance im aware of, 10 days ago

I dont talk only about xp loss in pvp, but to me its the #1 problem with the server, by far to me.

- Lowbies getting griefed off the server

- The grind to even 50 is huge, so people dont wanna add more grind on top so they dont pvp making red a de facto purple server. (Its fucking boring with no pvp compared to the classic Rallos experience)

- Top zerg guild farming no contest the best camps and zones

Blablafuckingbla im getting tendonitis typing this shit down for the 2 millionth time

[Tippett]

people who dont wanna do the huge grind should play another fucking game

its everquest dude, sometimes i get the idea to make it more casual but im really sick of the "it takes too long excuse"

if you dont want to play on a low pop pvp everquest server then dont play on a low pop pvp everquest server

[Tippett]

btw my enc is like level 38 with 2 days/played

shits fast as hell even my ranger was 46 in 3 weeks and that was soloing

[Tradesonred]

Thats a straw man. Im not saying you should 1-50 in 2 days, thats not what im saying, at all.

I think theres a sizeable portion of the server thats too fucking dumb or is incapable to put themselves in the shoes of new guys starting on the server or too self-absorbed in what they want instead of what the server needs, for the problem to ever be resolved.

Here Sirken, take my towel, im done.

[Faerie Blossom]

You missed it.

That's a pretty ambiguous quote, and if you're going to take it the way you are then we should also expect PvP text to be in soon, which to me seems unlikely.

Thats the first instance im aware of, 10 days ago

I dont talk only about xp loss in pvp, but to me its the #1 problem with the server, by far to me.

- Lowbies getting griefed off the server

- The grind to even 50 is huge, so people dont wanna add more grind on top so they dont pvp making red a de facto purple server. (Its fucking boring with no pvp compared to the classic Rallos experience)

- Top zerg guild farming no contest the best camps and zones

Blablafuckingbla im getting tendonitis typing this shit down for the 2 millionth time

I was under the impression that the exp loss from PvP wasn't really an issue until higher levels. I know in the 30s that PvP xp loss is no big deal at all. PvE deaths bother me a lot more, and even with those I haven't spent time looking for rezzes. You really seem obsessed :/

[Faerie Blossom]

Thats a straw man. Im not saying you should 1-50 in 2 days, thats not what im saying, at all.

I think theres a sizeable portion of the server thats too fucking dumb or is incapable to put themselves in the shoes of new guys starting on the server or too self-absorbed in what they want instead of what the server needs, for the problem to ever be resolved.

Here Sirken, take my towel, im done.

I am a new player to this server, and you're hardly making any sense whatsoever.

[Tippett]

Thats a straw man. Im not saying you should 1-50 in 2 days, thats not what im saying, at all.

I think theres a sizeable portion of the server thats too fucking dumb or is incapable to put themselves in the shoes of new guys starting on the server or too self-absorbed in what they want instead of what the server needs, for the problem to ever be resolved.

Here Sirken, take my towel, im done.

ive leveled like 72 toons here dude and definately not the most liked, im qualified for the shoes of new guy thing trust me

think i said before, if you want to play a low population eq pvp server with increased exp then play

if not then dont, altho i remember u were kinda cool in /ooc to converse with maybe give it a whirl for a week see if u like it for once and for all if ur still not sure

[SamwiseRed]

how to get moar players?

quit being dicks and be more social

kinda like social drinkers, alot of players are social gamers. all the soloing and give me give me is no good. i get more group invites now that i dont play then i ever did when i logged on for 3-4 hours at a time. (i do appreciate the invites btw)

good luck brothers.

[Tradesonred]

ive leveled like 72 toons here dude and definately not the most liked, im qualified for the shoes of new guy thing trust me

think i said before, if you want to play a low population eq pvp server with increased exp then play

if not then dont, altho i remember u were kinda cool in /ooc to converse with maybe give it a whirl for a week see if u like it for once and for all if ur still not sure

Thats what ill do, im just throwing the towel now and coming to terms that im not going to play. Theres been a massive influx of constructive feedback in the recent weeks and by now im guessing response will be what its often been. A non-response where you cant tell if they agree with feedback, disagree, if theyre thinking of taking parts of feedback in and tweaking stuff, nothing.

Unfortunatly, an EQ pvp server where the devs make the ruleset discourage pvp does not appeal to me, especially not how it allows the top zerg guild access to any end game content it wants without them having to fight for it. Its miles away from my classic experience, not what EQ was to me.

Ill check back in 6 months or something or when Velious hits.

how to get moar players?

quit being dicks and be more social

kinda like social drinkers, alot of players are social gamers. all the soloing and give me give me is no good. i get more group invites now that i dont play then i ever did when i logged on for 3-4 hours at a time. (i do appreciate the invites btw)

good luck brothers.

Thats the problem, alot of dicks. Solution is simple but not implemented. (Hint: it starts with xp and ends with loss)

Its fucking ridiculous and lazy for devs to place this problem strictly on the head of players.

Thats like a car company making cars that go to 300 mph and blaming the crashes solely on the idiots who ride the cars.

[Tippett]

this server has increased exp to make up for the exp loss, its fine

people dont want to die because of embaressment, not the exp loss

anyone withcommon sense knows this

i just loot my corpses i dont even bother people for rezzes, the exp is that fast

[Smedy]

hate to say it but the dicks are needed.

if everyone was overly nice to eachother i'd become the dick, cause fuck that, i play to have conflict, i can be nice to you in real life you faggot fuck

[Faerie Blossom]

Yeah, in the mid 30s I don't bother to look for rezzes when I die in PvE either. And the xp loss from PvP at this level is so minimal I only noticed it the one time I was PKed while at 0% xp and I lost my level. How is this really discouraging PvP pre-50?

hate to say it but the dicks are needed.

if everyone was overly nice to eachother i'd become the dick, cause fuck that, i play to have conflict, i can be nice to you in real life you faggot fuck

Compared to live, it seems like this server is full of "dicks". If anything, we need more nice players lol.

[Tippett]

smedy always dropping those wise bombs of euro knowledge

[Tradesonred]

this server has increased exp to make up for the exp loss, its fine

people dont want to die because of embaressment, not the exp loss

anyone withcommon sense knows this

i just loot my corpses i dont even bother people for rezzes, the exp is that fast

No offense but if youve leveled that many characters, youre not a source id go to to see what is and what isnt a reasonable amount of grind you can put on top of the PVE grind without making people quit because its no fun to choose between pvp and hindering your pve progress.

[Tradesonred]

Yeah, in the mid 30s I don't bother to look for rezzes when I die in PvE either. And the xp loss from PvP at this level is so minimal I only noticed it the one time I was PKed while at 0% xp and I lost my level. How is this really discouraging PvP pre-50?



Compared to live, it seems like this server is full of "dicks". If anything, we need more nice players lol.

Its because you guys are blue, you never experienced what it was like on Rallos. It wasnt one fight, one guy loots his corpses and scoots. PVP would go on for hours in a zone. One death is not really noticeable, start doing 3-4 hour pvp sessions per day every day and then get back to me about that insignificant xp loss youre talking about.

My gaming time on Rallos was 80% PVP 20% PVE

[Faerie Blossom]

Your idea of pvp reminds me a lot of WoW battlegrounds.

[SamwiseRed]

ya i used to play capture the flag in crushbone

[Tradesonred]

Your idea of pvp reminds me a lot of WoW battlegrounds.

That statement is Godwin's law for MMO debates

[Tradesonred]

ya i used to play capture the flag in crushbone

lol =)

[Faerie Blossom]

That statement is Godwin's law for MMO debates

Please don't confuse this for a debate.

[Tradesonred]

Please don't confuse this for a debate.

What is it, a flower?

[Faerie Blossom]

I thought it was a mostly polite discussion of somewhat controversial topics.

[Smedy]

Compared to live, it seems like this server is full of "dicks". If anything, we need more nice players lol.

contrary to popular belief smedy is actually a stand up guy for the newb population, i never attack new people, i usually go out of my way to help them

i can't speak for others but i have inherited this bluebie way of life from vallon zek which was the "nice guys" pvp server.

i can be a douche on the forums, i blame slow work days

[Swish]

Someone threw me an advisor robe in MM when I started up, and I was given a FBR before that...couldn't thank them enough.

Obviously there's wankers who log on their highly twinked wizards and rogues who you don't stand a chance of winning a fight against but just pity those folks - they probably haven't won a high end PvP fight in months and need to feel what it's like to see a corpse in front of them.

[Tradesonred]

Someone threw me an advisor robe in MM when I started up, and I was given a FBR before that...couldn't thank them enough.

Obviously there's wankers who log on their highly twinked wizards and rogues who you don't stand a chance of winning a fight against but just pity those folks - they probably haven't won a high end PvP fight in months and need to feel what it's like to see a corpse in front of them.

The important question is:

Where do you get all these awesome cat gifs

lol

[Nirgon]

Find more people who want to solo to 60 on a server with unresistable skean and 4+ years of Kunark (read: farmed trak teeth).

[Faerie Blossom]

contrary to popular belief smedy is actually a stand up guy for the newb population, i never attack new people, i usually go out of my way to help them

i can't speak for others but i have inherited this bluebie way of life from vallon zek which was the "nice guys" pvp server.

i can be a douche on the forums, i blame slow work days

Oh I wasn't calling you a dick or anything, you never seemed mean to me. VZ was my server too :)

It's just the constant ooc trashtalk and pissing contests that kind of make the server seem full of them. Just about everyone that I've personally interacted with has been nice, but there is definitely more than enough conflict here to keep us reds entertained.