Rod of Faith vs. Baton of Faith DPS

[Vallanor]

I have a question about the difference in dps between 1-handed and 2-handed weapons of the same damage/delay ratio, specifically the paladin-only 1hb Rod of Faith (24/32) and the paladin/monk-only 2hb Baton of Faith (30/40).

I'm trying to decide which of these weapons would give my paladin more dps, or if there would be a noticeable difference between the two. If it were simply a matter of damage/delay ratio, they would be equal. The 2hb would hit harder, but less often than the 1hb and over time, the dps will be the same. However, I understand that it doesn't really work that way. My internal, conflicting arguments are summed up below.

1) My understanding is that 2-handers get a higher damage bonus as you increase in levels than 1-handers. So, based on that, I would assume the 2hb would still out-damage the 1hb, and that this difference would only get larger as I gain levels.

2) However, I also understand that damage bonuses are static amounts that are added to the damage calculated each time you hit an enemy, which means they are more effective for faster weapons than for slower weapons, which would suggest that the faster 1hb could end up producing more dps than the slower 2hb.

3) Using the 1-hander also allows my paladin to use a shield. This adds bash to the equation. Granted, bash is more useful as a stun mechanism than as a dps mechanism, but it would help the 1hb dps slightly. More importantly though, using a shield can help in the stats department (I'm ignoring the additional armor class, since this is just a dps question). As an Erudite, my Shield of the Stalwart Seas grants me an additional 20 strength, which will both increase max damage and my attack rating, which should boost dps.

So... that's pretty much where I am at the moment. I think the 2hb damage bonus will be greater, but the 1hb has a shorter delay and would benefit more from the damage bonus over time. Additionally, using the 1hb allows some additional dps from bashing and increases my strength. Since these arguments lead in different directions, I figured I'd put the question out there and see if anyone has any ideas.

And before anyone chimes in to rain on my parade, I recognize that paladins aren't a dps class so dps will probably suck either way. But still, one has to be better than the other, right?

[Ravager]

I'm bad at math, but if you have both, it's just a matter of using both on the same mob several times each, parse and average it all out.

[Vallanor]

Yeah, that's very true. I don't have the Rod of Faith yet, mainly because it costs 20k whereas the Baton of Faith is dirt cheap. I'll likely by getting one either way and then I'll know for sure, but if anyone has any insight before I drop the big bucks, I'd love to hear about it.

[Shizzam]

Go with the 1 hander man. The str boost plus bash can interupt casters which is mint.

[Vallanor]

Totally agree that all-in-all the 1hb is going to be better. But I still don't know if it can actually out dps the 2hb. As Ravager pointed out above, I'll figure it out once I can scrounge up enough cash for the Rod, but I'm still really curious :)

[webrunner5]

The Baton of Faith (30/40) will do more damage. But you will probably take more damage to you with the AC drop without the shield and stun from bash. Solo 1 hander, group 2 hander. God knows a Pally needs all the DPS they can get.

[Alanus]

From playing a paladin on live, including during the Kunark days (talk about difficult leveling), I can tell you the BOF will easily out damage the ROF. Two handers have better damage in general.

I would try to keep both. ROF + shield better when you are the main tank (or on "stop complete heal duty"), while BOF better when you are not the main tank or when soloing.

[Vallanor]

Thanks, that helps. I'll keep the 2-hander around for max dps, but ideally I'll be tanking, so the 1-hander and shield will hopefully see more use. Appreciate the input.

[Lorraine]

Unless you've already purchased the RoF, you should consider investing the pp in something better and longer-term wise; Perhaps upgrade your haste item, or if you're closing in the planar gap, start considering Book of Scale purchase (if you're not already in a guild that can assist you with getting burnt+frost books), or even work towards a Deepwater breastplate purchase.

Equiping a shield is a survivability measure; resists when needed, interupt casters where needed, some added stats and ac if your armor/buffs can't already cover that. FA and eventually FD will cover these sufficiently.

[Vallanor]

Hmmm. You make a good point. 20k is a lot to drop on a weapon I'll only be using when I'm tanking and not responsible for dps anyway... I have a Sword of Morning now. Should I maybe upgrade to Wurmy for around 2k instead and replace my fbss with a sash of the dragonborn or something? I suppose I could upgrade quite a few slots for that price. Haha now I'm all confused.

[r0xx0r]

sorta off topic- but as far as two handers go that's pal useable, isn't the herbalist spade, just around the corner? maybe start the cash saving for that? just semi off topic i suppose.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'd say screw wurmy AND dragonborn and just save your PP, or look for budget upgrades in other slots.

[Vallanor]

Haha we've been off topic from my first post for a while but this conversation is probably more useful anyway. Any particular slot suggestions? I'm mostly in Armor of Ro with some decent mid range stuff in other slots. I've got about 12k in the bank and it's burning a hole in my pocket lol. Definitely need to upgrade earrings though I kinda just want to get some sarnak earrings of station if I get lucky enough in LOIO.

[webrunner5]

I don't really think a Wurmy is that good of weapon in Primary. They worked better in Secondary. Hit Point items help a lot as a tank.

[Ravager]

Summer is a couple months away and I don't think it's likely we'll see Velious this year, I'd save your plat until then when it will be worth twice as much. If you can hold aggro and not die you're as geared as you need to be in the meantime. That said, if you do replace any of that Armor of Ro, I'd be interested in buying!

[Vallanor]

Yeah, good point about summer. Is the bump in prices typical for the winter? Don't really remember it happening last year, though I was also not in position to buy much at that time.

[Tasslehofp99]

Pretty sure on live weapons were granted additional damage bonus if their delay was over a certain amount. 1Hers were 28 delay (or 29) and 2hers were 40 delay.


IfS was epic on live due to 38 dmg base plus additional dmg bonus from being 40+ delay, not sure when that started happening though.

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, good point about summer. Is the bump in prices typical for the winter? Don't really remember it happening last year, though I was also not in position to buy much at that time.

Has little to do with season, mostly to do with population. In the last 3 months p99 blue population has doubled, perhaps tripled. As that happened the surplus items folks had were bought up rapidly, thus making them harder to simply buy in ec. As that happened prices rose to meet demand, economics 101 guyz.

[webrunner5]

Has little to do with season, mostly to do with population. In the last 3 months p99 blue population has doubled, perhaps tripled. As that happened the surplus items folks had were bought up rapidly, thus making them harder to simply buy in ec. As that happened prices rose to meet demand, economics 101 guyz.

Yeah, but where did all these "new" people get all this plat. They can't be alts because the population would not have changed. Noobs sure as hell don't have 160k for CoF. So what gives?? :confused:

[r0xx0r]

Yeah, but where did all these "new" people get all this plat. They can't be alts because the population would not have changed. Noobs sure as hell don't have 160k for CoF. So what gives?? :confused:

some are selling red pp/items for blue pp/items. (further derailment of thread =( )

[Lorraine]

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9396/220pxderailedmovieposte.jpg


Anyway, back on track;

Should I maybe upgrade to Wurmy for around 2k instead and replace my fbss with a sash of the dragonborn or something? I suppose I could upgrade quite a few slots for that price.

Any particular slot suggestions? I'm mostly in Armor of Ro with some decent mid range stuff in other slots. I've got about 12k in the bank and it's burning a hole in my pocket lol. Definitely need to upgrade earrings though I kinda just want to get some sarnak earrings of station if I get lucky enough in LOIO.

What race are you?
What level are you?
Are you part of guild force that regularly does successful PoF/PoH/PoS runs?
How fast are you leveling?

Haste can come in various ways; either purchases of a FBSS and then a Sash of the Dragonborn (which are decent in regards to price/value ) or looting a Hangman's Noose/Belt of Virtue -- After that and the prices skyrocket; Runebranded Girdle / Runed Bolster Belt - Cloak haste items are even higher pricewise.

You just need to familiarise yourself some with the items and their usefullness for the class, and understand there are some lines where a certain upgrade will not start paying off imediately, so the platinum used for it are better spend elsewhere.

For example, if you are using Diamondine Earrings, then the next upgrade for that slot to consider would be Black Sapphire Electrum Earrings. But if you are level 30, even after selling your Diamondine off, you will need around 5.5k aprox to get your new earrings but the purchase becomes less efficient than for example using that plat to upgrade your cloak to a Hooded Black Cloak and your armor to Deepwater Armor (or dwarven cultural if you are a dwarf) or from upgrading your Totem of the Warrior Spirit to an Idol of the Thorned.

There are exceptions to this however, and this is where your guild/level come into effect.

Girdle of Faith : Stats suck donkey balls, but 41% haste more than makes up for it (unless your role in raids is to eat DT's - kite trash so raid force focuses on main target - or anything other than autoattacking on a 32k pixelized thing; then you use appropriate items for the job). There are already guilds out there who sell PoSky drops, and the paladin one isn't exactly in great demand around the server. Get in touch with them, arange a price, and join the club.

Fiery Avenger : 3/4 ratio, bash, stats + proc. For the price of buying a Book of Scale (again if you can't obtain one via your guild raids), a fight in Everfrost, and a turn-in in PoSky. (pro tip: make sure you have faction and remember to bring the Soulfire/Ghoulbane combo). The rest of the epic is quite easy too.

Deepwater Breastplate : Again, stats kinda blow, the clicky effect though more than makes up for it. Stock up on Jaspers and solo your way to 60 if and when you feel like it. Remember, it gets nerfed in Velious alongside the Donal's (iirc).


These three items are what I consider somewhat ground-breaking (if one can use such a term for this) and you could plan ahead in order to acquire them - the sooner the better. They will make your character significantly stronger. I've specifically ignored items such as a Fungi Tunic for example, since they aren't classified as PAL only.

[Vallanor]

Wow, thank you for that post. A lot of fantastic information.

I'm currently a level 35 erudite paladin, and leveling somewhat casually. About a level a week seems to be the norm, so I should be approaching Planes level by early summer sometime, give or take. I'm currently unguilded, so if I get to where I want to raid, I will obviously change that.

I'm currently using +2 STA earrings, which is my number one priority to upgrade, most likely to diamondine earrings though I may look into black sapphire electrum ones instead. Clearly an upgrade there would be money well spent. My cloak could use a boost as well, so I may look into the hooded black cloak you mentioned. Just looked it up on the wiki, and I think it would do quite nicely and wouldn't break the bank. Generally speaking, +HP items seem to be the way to go, so I'll be taking a closer look at those.

The game-changing items you mentioned are definitely something I'm going to try and plan ahead/save up for. I looked into the Fiery Avenger for when I get closer to 50. Didn't realize how easy it would be to obtain if you buy the Book of Scale from someone (not sure how hard this Miragul character is though). Sounds like being an erudite will help with that quest, and it will be a lot more achievable than I expected. The Girdle of Faith sounds pretty fantastic as well. 41% haste is huge! The Deepwater BP would probably be the last of those items I'd go after just because it will be nerfed eventually.

Anyway, thanks again for the great response. I think I'm starting to figure this stuff out!

[maverixdamighty]

Wow, thank you for that post. A lot of fantastic information.

I'm currently a level 35 erudite paladin, and leveling somewhat casually. About a level a week seems to be the norm, so I should be approaching Planes level by early summer sometime, give or take. I'm currently unguilded, so if I get to where I want to raid, I will obviously change that.

I'm currently using +2 STA earrings, which is my number one priority to upgrade, most likely to diamondine earrings though I may look into black sapphire electrum ones instead. Clearly an upgrade there would be money well spent. My cloak could use a boost as well, so I may look into the hooded black cloak you mentioned. Just looked it up on the wiki, and I think it would do quite nicely and wouldn't break the bank. Generally speaking, +HP items seem to be the way to go, so I'll be taking a closer look at those.

The game-changing items you mentioned are definitely something I'm going to try and plan ahead/save up for. I looked into the Fiery Avenger for when I get closer to 50. Didn't realize how easy it would be to obtain if you buy the Book of Scale from someone (not sure how hard this Miragul character is though). Sounds like being an erudite will help with that quest, and it will be a lot more achievable than I expected. The Girdle of Faith sounds pretty fantastic as well. 41% haste is huge! The Deepwater BP would probably be the last of those items I'd go after just because it will be nerfed eventually.

Anyway, thanks again for the great response. I think I'm starting to figure this stuff out!

well most of that last post is stuff you are not going to get unless you are raiding quite frequently or have alot of plat. a cheap paladin weapon with 3/4 ratio is baton of faith. in fact i have one i'll give to you if you want it just send me a PM. you can go to trak's teeth and hang out if someone is doing the forager/hunter cycle and get a hangman's noose for free. for earrings diamondine are pretty good and you can't go wrong with the HBC like you mentioned. you can also pick up deepwater armor pretty cheap like the boots/helm/bracer/gaunts/arms.