Bard AE Mez

[Kekephee]

I just wanted to start a discussion here about bard AE mez, Kelin's Lucid Lullaby. I had an experience the other day that made me realized I don't really "get" the mechanics of this song on a deep enough level. I was powerleveling a friend in EC by pulling a bunch of mobs, using AE mez to keep them from swarming him as well as to hold aggro on them- it makes a great taunt in addition to keeping mobs under control, and what ended up happening was he was able to just down the mobs one by one without taking any damage-and I noticed at level 40 an unbelievable percentage of my casts were getting resisted. I would say each mob resisted about half to 75% of the mez casts. These are level 5, 6, or 7 mobs, and I couldn't even keep them mezzed. Later that day, I went into Sol B, where every time my group would pull multiple mobs I would cast my AE mez and the level 35 kobolds were kept pretty under control- I had a couple resists, but it mostly worked- by the same mez. This was a pretty pleasant surprise, as lately my mez has been seeming less and less reliable, but never as bad as it was in EC.

What's the deal? Why do level 5 mobs resist while level 35s don't? I have 145 cha, which Ive noticed has helped my charm a great deal and seems to have cut down the resists on my mez, but what's the deal?

I made this thread because I figure if someone has the answer to this question, it will probably involve a few bits of information that will help me be a better mezzer anyway.

[SirAlvarex]

The AE Mez was nerfed in classic, because it was waaay overpowered. It works funny. It's one of the few spells that gets worse as *you* level. So, by being level 40 or so, it actually is *worse* than when you were level 20. I'm surprised you had luck in SolB, as I never had much luck with it when I grouped there back in my 40's. I'd get maybe 1 wave of hits, then a bunch of waves of resists, then I'd get jumped.

Is it classic to be as bad as it is? Eh, dunno. I have no references on it. But if it were to actually work as an AE mez, we'd be easily the best CC in the game. Even if it resisted just half the time, since we can recast it so much.

I find it easier to just use the single target mez.

[Kekephee]

Yeah when I was in my 20s and AE mez stuck every time it was pretty sad how OP I was. I was in unrest holding onto 4 or 5 barely-blue mobs at a time while meleeing and talking shit and my groups were all hero-worshipping, but deep down I just felt like a fraud. I'm almost glad those days are over, although now I feel a bit useless cause all I have is my 10 second charm, my garbage dps, and my mana song.

[Calabee]

if u cant hold 4-5 mobs on ur own without ae mez ur doing it wrong

[Duckforceone]

sing ae snare, sing your ds, have guy do 1 point of damage to them....
sit down repeatedly...

[SirAlvarex]

if u cant hold 4-5 mobs on ur own without ae mez ur doing it wrong

QFT. It's easy to hold 4 down. And 5/6 can be done if the mob is low enough to not get a resist.

[Kekephee]

if u cant hold 4-5 mobs on ur own without ae mez ur doing it wrong

Tell me more. I'd like to know if there's something I haven't been doing. If you're talking about AE snare, like the guy below you, I'll just say AE snare/run away/sit doesn't work so well in Sol B windows. If not, I'd like to hear more ideas.

[Itap]

if u cant hold 4-5 mobs on ur own without ae mez ur doing it wrong

He is level 40, and is ACTUALLY grouping. Instead of calling him about for apparently being unskilled, how about trying to help him. Being a little pretentious on a 14 year old elf-simulator, eh?

[Tenlaar]

What do you expect him to explain? Pixie strike takes three seconds to cast and lasts 18 seconds. That means you can use it on five other mobs and be casting again on the first by the time it breaks.

[Kekephee]

Interesting. I haven't been using pixie strike because I just assumed a single-target mez wouldn't last long enough to be worth it on multiple mobs (the same way lull song doesn't last long enough to cast on three before a pull), and single adds I can just charm onto group target. Guess it's time to start practicing pixie strike rotation. Thanks for the input.

[falkun]

It is absolutely worth lulling 3 and pulling the 4th. Actually, the best is lulling 3, snaring the 4th, and pulling the 5th. The fourth will show up late to the party and you'll get two pulls for the time of 1.

This is absolutely the best way to break chef's 5-spawn: 2 pulls instead of 5.

[Calabee]

lull lasts 24 seconds fyi

LOL wiki says it lasts 2 ticks, so goddamn false. that thing is soooooo often wrong

[Calabee]

btw u can do a 4 song twist if ur fast enough, not just 3.. one will drop every now and then, but for a fraction of a second. And when you're 50 + you can add a ''5th'' with BoH effect.... pisses me off when i see lvl 50 + bards WITH boh twisting 2/3 songs (and im counting non support like slow / snare)

anyways what i do for 4-5 mob pulls is i mez 3 charm the 4th and send it on 5th with taunt on (be prepared to take a few hits when it breaks, but if you time your charm well you can land it right as it fades and send it right back in.. with the taunting on, it'll be pulled off you if you aint done anything to the mob)

i've held down 6-7 mobs pulls before, but it's a PAIN and you WILL get hit, i normally prefer to die then to CC those :P

after 6 years of barding i have more then one trick in my bag heh.

[Kekephee]

Thanks a ton for all the info, guys. I knew there had to be some things I wasn't doing right. All of this information is definitely very helpful and I'll get to practicing my CC tonight or tomorrow. Probably screw around with it in a green zone like permafrost before I start doing it in Lguk just so I don't get any groups killed messing up.

As far as lull goes, I don't know what to think. Two days ago in lguk was the last time I even bothered trying to lull/pull, I tried to lull the three frogs on the cliff between ass/sup and br and by the time I'd lulled the 2nd and pulled the 3rd, all three of them came. And social aggrod about 2 more on the way around the ridge/bridge. Obviously I'm doing something very wrong there (could have been my speed, I was out of shurikens and using feefee's chant of whatever singletarget dot to pull). Gonna have to mess around with it. And buy some more shurikens...

[SirAlvarex]

If you're twisting all offensive spells, you can get 5 in easy (6 if you are using BoH...which you probably shouldn't if you are doing the rotation).

Snare -> Fear -> ST DoT 1 -> ST DoT 2 -> ST DoT 3, and those all last long enough for you to stack them without any breaking. Equates to about 30DPS on my 55 bard with Selo's drum. Much more than I ever accomplished with BoH/Guardians Mace combo when fear kiting.

Mez/Charm fits into the same category. Typically a mez/charm will last it's full duration. At full duration, it lasts approx 5 full songs worth. It makes it real easy to time the charm breakage, because I just twist 4 other songs while, pause for about 1-2 seconds, then cast my charm again. Usually I'll have the mob recharmed immediately after it breaks.

This of course differs on the mobs you are pulling. Some will break more than others.

[SirAlvarex]

Thanks a ton for all the info, guys. I knew there had to be some things I wasn't doing right. All of this information is definitely very helpful and I'll get to practicing my CC tonight or tomorrow. Probably screw around with it in a green zone like permafrost before I start doing it in Lguk just so I don't get any groups killed messing up.

As far as lull goes, I don't know what to think. Two days ago in lguk was the last time I even bothered trying to lull/pull, I tried to lull the three frogs on the cliff between ass/sup and br and by the time I'd lulled the 2nd and pulled the 3rd, all three of them came. And social aggrod about 2 more on the way around the ridge/bridge. Obviously I'm doing something very wrong there (could have been my speed, I was out of shurikens and using feefee's chant of whatever singletarget dot to pull). Gonna have to mess around with it. And buy some more shurikens...

The range on Lull is pretty crappy. Even with a lute you'll have some trouble pulling singles out of a camp. If I'm in a group with another pull class, I just prefer to let them pull them all so I can just charm/mez them. That way I'm still in camp pumping the regen and can pre-cast the Haste buffs.

[Kekephee]

Oh, I definitely take every opportunity I can to stay back and regen the casters, but if lull actually works and I'm just doing it wrong I'm going to need to reconsider sometimes. I usually group with some variation of 6 of the same 10 or 11 people and none of them is a monk. My rl friend who plays a warrior winds up pulling all the time because my lull never works and I get swarmed by 5 mobs and die before I make it back to the camp. He got pretty pissed the other day after that lguk lull fail when I just straight up told him I'm not pulling anymore because we're gonna have to deal with 5 mobs either way, we may as well do it with someone who can actually take the hits bringing them in. I guess now I know I just have to suck it up and learn how to do it.