Shaman versus Necro

[Arterian]

So I'm looking for a bit of insight into these two classes.

I have played a necro as my main since 1999. I currently have a lvl 97 necro on Live. I play a necro currently here. I know the class extremely well, know all the tricks, play styles, tactics etc. I have familiarity with what a necro can do, can't do, strengths, weaknesses etc. My issue is that after almost 100 levels of playing a necro, part of me wonders why I would do it all over again.

I'm considering playing a shaman. There are a few main reasons for this:

1.) Shamans enhance and greatly impact their group via slow, buffs, heals, ect. I have never been able to offer enhancements to fellow players. As you all know, there are only a few spells that aren't self only for a necro.

2.) From what I'm reading, shamans can actually be better soloers and tackler harder targets than a necro. I had always felt I could solo effectively, split camps with FD and solo nameds via my pet as a necro. Can shamans pull off more impressive things?

3.) My final point is really more of a question, and that is, can a shaman effectively solo in lguk? sebilis? How do shamans break camps? As a necro with FD it's relatively easy, but I'm unsure how a shaman would handle this.

I appreciate any thoughts you guys have :)

[quido]

I'd say that before 60 a necro is in most situations better than a shaman solo. However, once a shaman has torpor, it's situational. In a situation where you need a genuine split, a necro is probably still better, but as far as survivability on some tougher mobs goes, it's pretty tough to beat a shaman. A necro needs to employ some serious clickies probably to solo nameds in Crypt, and even then is liable to have to gate.

The only real means for a shaman to split camps in Lguk is to root and scoot. I started doing this mid 40s on my shaman in the undead tower and it worked pretty well (granted there were less spawns then making some splits easier). Best bet for a shaman though is to find a quality melee and team up with him, or someone like a necro.

[Nirgon]

Not sure why someone that has been playing since 1999 would have this question really

[SCB]

Not sure why someone that has been playing since 1999 would have this question really

He's played a necro, but has never played a shaman.

[Arterian]

To be honest I never really paid much attention to shamans in the Kunark/Velious era. And as you may know all classes changed so dramatically over time that it is hard to compare a particular class in 2000 to what it is in 2004 or 2008 or 2013.

I also feel like shamans have gotten more positive press than on live. I could be wrong but this attention has caused me to take notice.

[Swish]

I had 2 shammies on live (one around Velious, the other much later). Very different experiences, but then the game had moved the goalposts and everything seemed a lot easier later on!

There are a ton of shamans on P99, always some action going on for shammie epic pieces and stuff...they're a great durable class that buffs, heals, slows...and is a great addition to a group, and essential in some encounters as their slow is the best :)

People are jerking off (literally I'd say) at the thought of tanking Lodi (the giant Velious turtle) because it was a big deal back when Velious was around originally. Necros go to the dogs in Velious according to the forums here... I never played one to know personally, but they're in for a tougher time.

If you want a class that's desired, will do well now and in Velious, and you'll enjoy... I'd definitely make a shaman. There's some discussion on it in the priests forum about whether its worth rolling an iksar or not, but overall the necro isn't going to have much of a role in months/years to come... and torpor really was/is OP :)

TL;DR - Roll a shaman!

[webrunner5]

I can tell you though that a Shaman is just about total crap at solo at low levels. Not till level 22 can they do any worth while damage, and not really till 34 when they get their Dog are they great. The biggest problem I see with a Shaman, and I have one, is they are doing something all the time. No real break. Buffs, Slows, Canni Dance, sending Dog in, it never stops. So if you sort of want to take a break once in awhile I don't recommend a Shaman. But it is a great class once you get higher, and a needed class, just a hell of a lot of work even solo.

They don't get FD, Sneak or Hide. So you just can't be sitting there going to Pee and fix a snack and hope you live. The Dog is not too bad but probably won't save your butt. They do get invis, but not to undead. Like I said they are a busy class to play. And large races are a pain in the ass in Dungeons. Shrink only works outdoors, and the shrink pots that do work indoors are 25 plat a pop. But there is a TON of them on here so you won't be alone. When a Shaman and a Enchanter show up for a group no one is unhappy trust me.

[Swish]

I can tell you though that a Shaman is just about total crap at solo at low levels. Not till level 22 can they do any worth while damage, and not really till 34 when they get their Dog are they great. The biggest problem I see with a Shaman, and I have one, is they are doing something all the time. No real break. Buffs, Slows, Canni Dance, sending Dog in, it never stops. So if you sort of want to take a break once in awhile I don't recommend a Shaman. But it is a great class once you get higher, and a needed class, just a hell of a lot of work even solo.

They don't get FD, Sneak or Hide. So you just can't be sitting there going to Pee and fix a snack and hope you live. The Dog is not too bad but probably won't save your butt. They do get invis, but not to undead. Like I said they are a busy class to play. And large races are a pain in the ass in Dungeons. Shrink only works outdoors, and the shrink pots that do work indoors are 25 plat a pop. But there is a TON of them on here so you won't be alone. When a Shaman and a Enchanter show up for a group no one is unhappy trust me.

I solo'd 1-19 on red a good while ago with a troll shaman with no gear. True they're not great, but they can tank a bit! I was doing the Upper Guk entrance and onto the crocs...then left at 13-14 to hit up Kurn's Tower. The nukes will see you through, with some melee attached - its slow work, but its doable :)

[Arterian]

I appreciate the feedback so far. Just to throw a wrench in this discussion...

Where do you guys feel enchanters fall in comparison to shamans?

I know they both are strong group assest in addition to having powerful solo tools.

I know as a shaman you're going to have your hands full with constant buffing, debuffing, slowing, canni, pet, etc etc

Are enchanters a bit more well balanced when it comes to their role? I like the idea of charming powerful targets to solo unique areas...

Who is more well suited to soloing a difficult camp deep in a dungeon, a shaman or enc?

[Droog007]

I ... And large races are a pain in the ass in Dungeons. Shrink only works outdoors, and the shrink pots that do work indoors are 25 plat a pop.

Backwards. It's fairly rare to be in tight quarters in outdoor zone where the shrink spell does not work. Then you can use potions... or cobalt bracer as available...

Double shrunk fatties in guk or sol a/b are quite comfortable. No potions required.

[Sickle]

Having a 60 necro and a lv 55 shaman...I still go with Shaman. I cant wait for 60 and Torpor.

[Rhambuk]

bit offtopic but is the iksar shaman cudgel quest doable by any shaman, i know the faction work would be a crazy pain in the ass.

that last one that has clicky PE or something would be awesome

[Duckforceone]

started a shammy and gotten him to 19... my necro is still sitting at lvl 8...

i must say having tons of spells, heals, and tankability, makes it a bit more fun..

[kenzar]

that last one that has clicky PE or something would be awesome

That cudgel was implemented way later than the scope of this server. As far as vanilla/kunark/velious is considered, the quest line stops at #5.
[ http://wiki.project1999.org/Iron_Cudgel_of_the_Channeler ] which is quite shit actually.

[Autotune]

I appreciate the feedback so far. Just to throw a wrench in this discussion...

Where do you guys feel enchanters fall in comparison to shamans?

I know they both are strong group assest in addition to having powerful solo tools.

I know as a shaman you're going to have your hands full with constant buffing, debuffing, slowing, canni, pet, etc etc

Are enchanters a bit more well balanced when it comes to their role? I like the idea of charming powerful targets to solo unique areas...

Who is more well suited to soloing a difficult camp deep in a dungeon, a shaman or enc?

solo, shaman.
duo, enchanter with cleric.
if you can't live without FD, necro.

[webrunner5]

One thing that has not been brought up is the cost to equipt a Shaman high end. I know you don't need them all but it helps. The level 39 Canni spell is a real turd to get at say level 35. It sells for on average 3k in the tunnel. Not cheap. It helps a ton to either have a Ikky BP or a Fungi for the Canni Dance. Say 15k for Ikky, 75k for Fungi. Granate Face Grinder 8k. Then is there is the JBB. 30k easy. Then there is Torpor. Another 30k. So there you go boys and girls. A hell of a lot more expensive than a Chanter to level up.

[Arterian]

I do like the idea of an enchanter, however their problems in Velious have me re-thinking that.

Everything I have read spells disaster for them, with MR mobs and a complete lack of quality charmable targets.

Shamans on the other hand, seem to gain strength.

I realize Velious is not out yet, but it would seem short sighted to not realize this server will probably exist longer in Velious than any other time period.

[Tenlaar]

That is the exact same thing I went through when I started. I ended up making both - when it's prime time and I can get groups easy I play the enchanter, and in more off hours I play the shaman. There's a fairly good chance I'll end up getting the enchanter to 29 so I can make some plat while semi-afk with clarity/augmentation and playing the shaman as my main.

[fishingme]

Shaman hands down, easy epic, epic is completely worth it, platemail gear, fungi, canni, etc. A shaman with a fungi will basically make you live forever.

[Victorio]

Depends on your play-style. If you want to group a lot for dungeon crawls, go shaman, as they are obviously much more team oriented. If you can only play sporadically and not for that long continuously, or have irl duties that don't let you pay attention constantly, necro is obviously easier to level up.

[Tenlaar]

A shaman with a fungi will basically make you live forever.

Slight derail, but this reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask. Is there a cap on regen in these eras, or can an iksar/troll with regrowth and a fungi actually have I think 53 sitting hp regen? That would be nice, using canni 1 you could have almost triple the mana regen of C2 while still going up a few hp a tick.

[Ephirith]

Slight derail, but this reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask. Is there a cap on regen in these eras, or can an iksar/troll with regrowth and a fungi actually have I think 53 sitting hp regen? That would be nice, using canni 1 you could have almost triple the mana regen of C2 while still going up a few hp a tick.

My god that would be miserable, you'd have to canni every tick. Might as well play a bard

[Tenlaar]

I don't have any problem hitting my canni dance macro every six seconds when I don't want to lower my hp. I'm mostly thinking solo situations where I would be ending fights with low enough hp that I don't want to lose more but still get the mana back.

The fact that I played a bard main to 90 might have something to do with why it doesn't bother me.